Sauna and Longevity: A 12-Hour Fasting Rhythm | Vitruvian

Video·Rich Roll·9 min read·February 10, 2025

Dr. Valter Longo argues that longevity starts with a restrained daily rhythm: a realistic fasting window, a nutrient-aware diet, and protocols that can be sustained long enough to matter.

The Longevity Question

Longevity begins with a quieter question than most headlines allow. The aim is not to chase an extreme promise of living forever; it is to understand aging as a driver of risk and to make the years ahead more vital. When the body ages less aggressively, the conditions tied to aging can arrive later, with less force. That is the practical promise: more time with strength, clarity, and capacity intact.

Longo’s work places daily nutrition at the center of that promise. What you eat every day shapes health span and lifespan because food is not only fuel; it is information the body must answer. His research looks at fasting, fasting-mimicking diets, and broader dietary patterns through the lens of aging. The question is precise: what can people change, repeat, and sustain without creating new problems.

That restraint matters because the public conversation around fasting has become crowded. Time-restricted eating, intermittent fasting, alternate-day fasting, and the 5:2 approach often sit beside each other as if they belong to one simple category. They do not. Each asks something different of the body and of daily life, and each carries a different burden of adherence.

The confusion is understandable. Fasting has an ancient simplicity, but modern life has made the basic rhythm less visible. Many people now eat from early morning until late at night, stretching intake across much of the day. Without a deliberate boundary, the eating window expands until it becomes the default environment.

Longo’s frame is disciplined without being severe. He speaks less about deprivation and more about design: a daily protocol that protects equilibrium while nudging the body toward better regulation. This is where longevity becomes less abstract. It enters the kitchen, the calendar, the evening meal, and the final hours before sleep.

The value of this approach is its realism. A longevity practice only matters if it survives the week, the season, and the years when life becomes demanding. Extreme protocols can look compelling in theory, but the body benefits from what you can return to with consistency. Mastery is built through rhythm.

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it's a very undisciplined world if you look at Europe 60% of people are look at Europe 60% of people are overweight or obese in the United States overweight or obese in the United States is 75% if you can make somebody younger is 75% if you can make somebody younger they will live longer they will be much they will live longer they will be much healthier of course you can going to healthier of course you can going to make somebody live 10 times longer but make somebody live 10 times longer but could you make him 50% longer right so I could you make him 50% longer right so I think it's possible right so from 80 to 120 returning for his third appearance on the podcast I'm very pleased to on the podcast I'm very pleased to welcome back Dr vter Longo a pioner in welcome back Dr vter Longo a pioner in research scientists in the field of research scientists in the field of longevity fasting and age related longevity fasting and age related disease named one of the 50 most disease named one of the 50 most influential people in healthcare by Time influential people in healthcare by Time Magazine Dr Longo is both the director Magazine Dr Longo is both the director of the Longevity Institute at USC where of the Longevity Institute at USC where he is also a professor of gerontology he is also a professor of gerontology and biological sciences as well as the and biological sciences as well as the Director of the longevity and cancer Director of the longevity and cancer program at the Institute of molecular program at the Institute of molecular oncology in Milan Italy fasting oncology in Milan Italy fasting mimicking diet plus chemo immunotherapy

mimicking diet plus chemo immunotherapy hormone therapy KES inhibitor I mean the hormone therapy KES inhibitor I mean the potential is huge in all the different potential is huge in all the different cancers and in all the different stages cancers and in all the different stages in this conversation we parse longevity in this conversation we parse longevity science from myths we talk about the science from myths we talk about the most important habits to consider to most important habits to consider to keep aging and disease at Bay the keep aging and disease at Bay the optimal way to fast and what Dr Longo's optimal way to fast and what Dr Longo's research reveals about the impact of research reveals about the impact of fasting on our biological clock on fasting on our biological clock on lifestyle disease gener lifestyle disease gener and on the prevention and treatment of and on the prevention and treatment of various types of cancer which is also various types of cancer which is also the subject of his latest book fasting the subject of his latest book fasting cancer Dr Longo is truly at The Cutting cancer Dr Longo is truly at The Cutting Edge of a field that is rapidly Edge of a field that is rapidly rewriting the rules on how to live rewriting the rules on how to live longer and more vitally it's incredible longer and more vitally it's incredible stuff and my hope is that this stuff and my hope is that this conversation will leave you rethinking conversation will leave you rethinking your nonideal nutrition habits and your nonideal nutrition habits and empowered to make better ones what you empowered to make better ones what you eat every day is going to have a huge eat every day is going to have a huge impact on your health span and lifespan

impact on your health span and lifespan what is it about these diets that is so protective volter thank you uh for returning to the podcast it's been returning to the podcast it's been between like two and a half and three between like two and a half and three years since we last sat down to talk we years since we last sat down to talk we reconnected at that Google conference reconnected at that Google conference recently where you were on a panel with recently where you were on a panel with Ronda Patrick and Peter diamandis who Ronda Patrick and Peter diamandis who both have been on the podcast recently both have been on the podcast recently so you're complet the the the Triumph R so you're complet the the the Triumph R yeah here to kind of dive deep into yeah here to kind of dive deep into longevity science fasting we're going to longevity science fasting we're going to talk about the impact of the fasting talk about the impact of the fasting mimicking diet on cancer specifically uh mimicking diet on cancer specifically uh which is the subject of your new book which is the subject of your new book fasting cancer but before we get into fasting cancer but before we get into all of this I think it it would be all of this I think it it would be valuable to just spend a minute or two valuable to just spend a minute or two discussing what has transpired in the discussing what has transpired in the last 24 hours so today is January 23rd last 24 hours so today is January 23rd when we're recording this we're on day

when we're recording this we're on day four of the Trump four of the Trump Administration and just yesterday there Administration and just yesterday there was a freeze on NIH Grant review uh was a freeze on NIH Grant review uh panels there was an article in panels there was an article in science.org about this so there's a science.org about this so there's a little bit of a mild Panic among little bit of a mild Panic among scientists who depend upon grant funding scientists who depend upon grant funding whose studies are under the umbrella of whose studies are under the umbrella of the NIH which is an enormous institution the NIH which is an enormous institution I think something like 300,000 people I think something like 300,000 people 2500 institutions uh under underneath 2500 institutions uh under underneath that um and it perhaps is a momentary that um and it perhaps is a momentary pause certainly I would imagine there's pause certainly I would imagine there's bloat in this bureaucracy that is worthy bloat in this bureaucracy that is worthy of review but at the same time an of review but at the same time an interruption in you know billions of interruption in you know billions of dollars in research funding so as a dollars in research funding so as a scientist who runs a lab I suspect you scientist who runs a lab I suspect you are potentially impacted by this and are potentially impacted by this and just wanted to see you know kind of just wanted to see you know kind of where you stand and what your thoughts where you stand and what your thoughts are on this yeah well we're very worried are on this yeah well we're very worried of course uh I just submitted a grant to of course uh I just submitted a grant to the NH and this is a $15 million Grant

the NH and this is a $15 million Grant as a major grant for for my lab at USC as a major grant for for my lab at USC and we depend on that right so we depend and we depend on that right so we depend on on uh on this NH funds to to do on on uh on this NH funds to to do research and my group has helped maybe research and my group has helped maybe 50 universities in hospital do clinical 50 universities in hospital do clinical trials and the re without the NIH trials and the re without the NIH research uh none of those will have research uh none of those will have happened in our trials I think are happened in our trials I think are particularly relevant because they're particularly relevant because they're not on drugs right so there are trials not on drugs right so there are trials on on fasting fasting mimicking diets on on fasting fasting mimicking diets and longevity diet so things that are and longevity diet so things that are either free or either free or inexpensive and those particularly those inexpensive and those particularly those depend almost completely on the ni and depend almost completely on the ni and sometimes on some Foundation funding but sometimes on some Foundation funding but but mostly on the NIH right so obviously but mostly on the NIH right so obviously there's reform needed at the NIH and I there's reform needed at the NIH and I think most of the ni people will say the think most of the ni people will say the same right uh certainly blocking the NIH same right uh certainly blocking the NIH process is a is a big problem yeah I process is a is a big problem yeah I think they are responsible for something think they are responsible for something like 47 billion dollars in allocations

like 47 billion dollars in allocations uh and I think you know it's kind of uh and I think you know it's kind of important to understand that not all important to understand that not all research is you know Pharma funded and research is you know Pharma funded and Foundations only go you know so far Foundations only go you know so far right like in terms of how we underwrite right like in terms of how we underwrite critical research uh not just uh in critical research uh not just uh in terms of clinical trials but all manner terms of clinical trials but all manner of research to find new cures to of research to find new cures to diseases Etc goes well beyond kind of diseases Etc goes well beyond kind of what I think perhaps people might what I think perhaps people might imagine in terms of its scope and depth imagine in terms of its scope and depth yes and I think a lot of people may yes and I think a lot of people may think that this is just about basic think that this is just about basic science right but in fact the NIH funds science right but in fact the NIH funds a lot of clinical trials and some of a lot of clinical trials and some of these clinical trials could have a a these clinical trials could have a a almost final impact on whether an almost final impact on whether an intervention gets used or Not by people intervention gets used or Not by people eventually right so in some cases they eventually right so in some cases they may even find trials that are going to may even find trials that are going to be FDA approved so so yes so it's basic be FDA approved so so yes so it's basic research the fuels the translational research the fuels the translational science or translational science and science or translational science and then translational science the fuels

then translational science the fuels clinical trials and and treatments and clinical trials and and treatments and and I think that with that and I think that with that dni uh will be a drastic uh problem dni uh will be a drastic uh problem especially for those um diseases or especially for those um diseases or problems where um the the big Pharma problems where um the the big Pharma don't don't want to invest right so like don't don't want to invest right so like rare diseases and and and diseases that rare diseases and and and diseases that are not that uh profitable uh so that's are not that uh profitable uh so that's where the N steps in and funds research where the N steps in and funds research in clinical work uh to to treat it him in clinical work uh to to treat it him yeah well interesting times indeed in yeah well interesting times indeed in which we live uh but we were both lucky which we live uh but we were both lucky enough to avoid our homes being impacted enough to avoid our homes being impacted by the recent fires although there's by the recent fires although there's fire still still burning right now so fire still still burning right now so it's a very you know it's a very it's a very you know it's a very interesting time here in Los Angeles interesting time here in Los Angeles anyway because it's been a couple years anyway because it's been a couple years since you've been here I thought uh it since you've been here I thought uh it it would be great to kind of catch us up it would be great to kind of catch us up on the latest uh findings with respect on the latest uh findings with respect to fasting the fasting mimicking diet um

to fasting the fasting mimicking diet um which is your kind of like Focus which is your kind of like Focus intermittent fasting Tim restricted intermittent fasting Tim restricted eating there's a lot of confusion out eating there's a lot of confusion out here around that last time you were on here around that last time you were on we kind of canvased all of these but a we kind of canvased all of these but a lot has happened in the intervening kind lot has happened in the intervening kind of period in which we last sat down so of period in which we last sat down so kind of where are we and what's got you kind of where are we and what's got you kind of excited or what's giving us kind of excited or what's giving us greater clarity about the impact of this greater clarity about the impact of this science yes so I will say that at least science yes so I will say that at least in my opinion now the the more clear in my opinion now the the more clear evidence for fasting is in the time evidence for fasting is in the time rested the eating domain you know so the rested the eating domain you know so the the daily fasting and I think we the daily fasting and I think we discussed it before but I stick with the discussed it before but I stick with the 12 hours um of fasting and 12 hours of 12 hours um of fasting and 12 hours of feeding per day and there's new data feeding per day and there's new data indicating that uh in fact maybe the the indicating that uh in fact maybe the the problem of skipping breakfast uh and problem of skipping breakfast uh and doing 16 hours of fasting and skipping doing 16 hours of fasting and skipping breakfast may not be about skipping breakfast may not be about skipping breakfast but maybe about the 16 hours breakfast but maybe about the 16 hours right so we don't know but certainly right so we don't know but certainly that's a possibility um and so I think

that's a possibility um and so I think 12 hours is a much uh safer way to go 12 hours is a much uh safer way to go and not as effective of course as 16 and not as effective of course as 16 hours of fasting every day but still hours of fasting every day but still effective and and so I think sain Panda effective and and so I think sain Panda and I will agree and they say 11 to 12 and I will agree and they say 11 to 12 hours uh Daily Time restricted period so hours uh Daily Time restricted period so you know eat for 11 hours or 12 and fast you know eat for 11 hours or 12 and fast for 13 hours or or or 12 my for 13 hours or or or 12 my understanding correct me if I'm wrong is understanding correct me if I'm wrong is is that we still need more research to is that we still need more research to really drill down on you know the really drill down on you know the efficacy of these specific windows but efficacy of these specific windows but as of right now like it's sort of a safe as of right now like it's sort of a safe bet like this 12 on 12 off seems to be bet like this 12 on 12 off seems to be the one that kind of works for all the one that kind of works for all purposes whereas others may have purposes whereas others may have benefits or or or deleterious impacts benefits or or or deleterious impacts that we're still trying to better that we're still trying to better understand but as of right now like this understand but as of right now like this is this seems to be the window that is is this seems to be the window that is the safest and most predictable in terms the safest and most predictable in terms of outcomes yeah the easiest safest no

of outcomes yeah the easiest safest no physician will ever argue that that's a physician will ever argue that that's a bad idea um and really not a single bad idea um and really not a single Paper uh saying that this is not uh safe Paper uh saying that this is not uh safe or that is not effective or at least or that is not effective or at least partially effective in in preventing and partially effective in in preventing and treating number of diseases so yeah so I treating number of diseases so yeah so I think it's a good compromise uh and uh think it's a good compromise uh and uh and I think something that everybody and I think something that everybody should do that's also consistent not should do that's also consistent not just with the epidemiological data the just with the epidemiological data the clinical trials also consistent with clinical trials also consistent with what centenarians uh have been doing for what centenarians uh have been doing for you know 100 years or more so um yeah so you know 100 years or more so um yeah so I think that the 12 hours is is is one I think that the 12 hours is is is one and then I've always argued against the and then I've always argued against the alternate day fasting the 52 and not alternate day fasting the 52 and not because they're not effective but again because they're not effective but again they're very uh demanding right so not they're very uh demanding right so not eating every other day it's going to be eating every other day it's going to be something that very few people will ever something that very few people will ever be able to do and then you get into the

be able to do and then you get into the again the territory of are there side again the territory of are there side effects caused by not eating every other effects caused by not eating every other day or not eating for two days a week uh day or not eating for two days a week uh so I would say in general I I just don't so I would say in general I I just don't see a big future at least not for the see a big future at least not for the general population right some people can general population right some people can do it uh we'll see about the how the do it uh we'll see about the how the about the efficacy and the safety but I about the efficacy and the safety but I think that in general uh I will say that think that in general uh I will say that um I'm at least I'm not enthusiastic um I'm at least I'm not enthusiastic about uh either alternative fasting or about uh either alternative fasting or uh two days a week of fasting then of uh two days a week of fasting then of course I'm I'm enthusiastic about the course I'm I'm enthusiastic about the fasting making diet so in addition to fasting making diet so in addition to the time eating daily than the cycles of the time eating daily than the cycles of the fast making diet and so this is a the fast making diet and so this is a plant-based uh U you know low calorie plant-based uh U you know low calorie low sugar low protein High plant-based low sugar low protein High plant-based fats the program that we've been testing fats the program that we've been testing we and many universities have asked to we and many universities have asked to test it have been using it for uh all test it have been using it for uh all kinds of all kinds of diseases from kinds of all kinds of diseases from diabetes pre-diabetes

diabetes pre-diabetes cancer Alzheimer's autoimmunities etc cancer Alzheimer's autoimmunities etc etc for people that didn't listen to our etc for people that didn't listen to our previous episode The fasting mimicking previous episode The fasting mimicking diet is essentially a way of eating a diet is essentially a way of eating a calorie restricted diet with a very calorie restricted diet with a very specific you know kind of menu that specific you know kind of menu that physiologically mimics what the body physiologically mimics what the body would experience had it been just would experience had it been just fasting correct is that did I say that fasting correct is that did I say that accurately yeah that's here so then that accurately yeah that's here so then that was first developed in mice and and so was first developed in mice and and so we use certain markers to make sure that we use certain markers to make sure that there is a fasting response equivalent there is a fasting response equivalent to that of water only fasting and then to that of water only fasting and then the same was done in people and again the same was done in people and again we're looking for certain uh factors in we're looking for certain uh factors in the in the blood that um would show that the in the blood that um would show that in fact that that person has responded in fact that that person has responded uh as it would if it was not eating at uh as it would if it was not eating at all mhm before we move on from Tim all mhm before we move on from Tim restricted eating in this 12-hour window restricted eating in this 12-hour window you know to to restrict your eating to a

you know to to restrict your eating to a 12-h hour period isn't really fasting at 12-h hour period isn't really fasting at all it's sort of like if you get up at all it's sort of like if you get up at 8:00 in the morning and you go to about 8:00 in the morning and you go to about at 9: or 10 at night like there's at 9: or 10 at night like there's literally only an hour or two in which literally only an hour or two in which you're not meant to be eating right yeah you're not meant to be eating right yeah and that's very important right because and that's very important right because if you look at Europe 60% of people are if you look at Europe 60% of people are overweight or obese and the United overweight or obese and the United States is 75% so we're in a world I States is 75% so we're in a world I think and this is not just Europe and think and this is not just Europe and the US it's the whole world with few the US it's the whole world with few exceptions so it's a it's a very exceptions so it's a it's a very undisciplined world and and so that's undisciplined world and and so that's very important to also say not just what very important to also say not just what will be most effective but what will be will be most effective but what will be easiest for people realistic for people easiest for people realistic for people and so I think that 12 hours a lot of and so I think that 12 hours a lot of people say that's not fasting at all uh people say that's not fasting at all uh well it is fasting because now on well it is fasting because now on average and this is worked by Panda uh average and this is worked by Panda uh people were eating for about 15 hours a people were eating for about 15 hours a day right so yeah so people all over the day right so yeah so people all over the world like to eat for long periods every world like to eat for long periods every day yeah so then somebody may start the day yeah so then somebody may start the six a.m. and end at 11:30 p.m. right uh

six a.m. and end at 11:30 p.m. right uh and so that you know the 3 four 5 Hour and so that you know the 3 four 5 Hour restriction can make a big difference it restriction can make a big difference it can make a b big difference not just in can make a b big difference not just in reducing calories because you have less reducing calories because you have less opportunities but also in metabol opportunities but also in metabol metabolic switches they may make it make metabolic switches they may make it make uh energy expenditure higher let's say uh energy expenditure higher let's say right and and and also help people sleep right and and and also help people sleep so those are the some of the things that so those are the some of the things that that are emerging in Mouse and human that are emerging in Mouse and human studies if people are eating on average studies if people are eating on average 15 hours a day is there evidence or is 15 hours a day is there evidence or is anybody kind of looking at the anybody kind of looking at the co-founding factor of the impingement on co-founding factor of the impingement on sleep that would be impacting sleep that would be impacting deleterious Health outcomes because if deleterious Health outcomes because if you're eating for that many hours you're you're eating for that many hours you're probably staying up late and not getting probably staying up late and not getting you know this the eight hours that you you know this the eight hours that you should be getting or seven hours yeah so should be getting or seven hours yeah so Sachin Panda published on that and Sachin Panda published on that and showed that in fact when they reduce the showed that in fact when they reduce the the eating window from 14 hours and the eating window from 14 hours and above if I remember correctly to less above if I remember correctly to less than 11 hours there was an improvement

than 11 hours there was an improvement in in sleeping quality so yes so that in in sleeping quality so yes so that seems to be the case and I've always seems to be the case and I've always been also preaching uh not eating for been also preaching uh not eating for the last three hours before you go to the last three hours before you go to sleep so that's uh consistent still the sleep so that's uh consistent still the hardest thing for me it's really it's hardest thing for me it's really it's really difficult for me to go to sleep really difficult for me to go to sleep when I uh don't have a full stomach or when I uh don't have a full stomach or or and feeling hungry at night it's just or and feeling hungry at night it's just a mountain I still have not mastered a mountain I still have not mastered yeah and I I think it's important you yeah and I I think it's important you know the foundation clinics uh we know the foundation clinics uh we everybody's got a different method right everybody's got a different method right so so I think it's important uh so for so so I think it's important uh so for example it's better to eat a light example it's better to eat a light dinner but I have a a very big dinner dinner but I have a a very big dinner right so because that I would be unhappy right so because that I would be unhappy having a big lunch and a small dinner so having a big lunch and a small dinner so so to me it works for me it works and so to me it works for me it works and and so I think it's okay um I sleep well and so I think it's okay um I sleep well and and or pretty well unless I'm and and or pretty well unless I'm traveling like like I just did but uh traveling like like I just did but uh yeah if you if you eat late and and

yeah if you if you eat late and and that's a big deal to someone um but that that's a big deal to someone um but that doesn't really affect you negatively I I doesn't really affect you negatively I I don't think there is too much data don't think there is too much data suggesting that you're going to live 10 suggesting that you're going to live 10 years shorter because of that right so years shorter because of that right so so if you're sleeping well that's so if you're sleeping well that's probably okay and okay compromise I do probably okay and okay compromise I do notice though if I overdo it in terms of notice though if I overdo it in terms of volume and you know hour of the evening volume and you know hour of the evening I'll generally wake up around 2:00 or 3 I'll generally wake up around 2:00 or 3 in the morning and when I was wearing a in the morning and when I was wearing a CGM I would notice you know these spikes CGM I would notice you know these spikes and these drops that would occur you and these drops that would occur you know over the course of of the evening know over the course of of the evening that don't happen when I eat earlier or that don't happen when I eat earlier or like reduce the volume right and as you like reduce the volume right and as you get older they might get worse right so get older they might get worse right so so yeah so then yes the recommendation so yeah so then yes the recommendation stays eat earlier and eat within 12 stays eat earlier and eat within 12 hours and then you know if somebody's hours and then you know if somebody's not affected by by eating later it's not affected by by eating later it's probably okay until that becomes a probably okay until that becomes a problem right so I I think that's a good problem right so I I think that's a good way to look at it and of course you have way to look at it and of course you have to know that it's a problem but you know

to know that it's a problem but you know not sleeping well most people will know not sleeping well most people will know even without a a bracelet even without a a bracelet or you'll know yeah you don't need any or you'll know yeah you don't need any any kind of like data feedback to know any kind of like data feedback to know whether you're sleeping well or not whether you're sleeping well or not honestly before we kind of even go honestly before we kind of even go further perhaps we should just take a further perhaps we should just take a minute and and you know set the table a minute and and you know set the table a little bit your expertise is on little bit your expertise is on nutrition and its impact on longevity nutrition and its impact on longevity and disease prevention and to some and disease prevention and to some degree ree disease treatment uh through degree ree disease treatment uh through the lens of fasting so maybe you know in the lens of fasting so maybe you know in your own words kind of describe you know your own words kind of describe you know your research and kind of the thesis of your research and kind of the thesis of the work that you the work that you do yes so uh so that that's the let's do yes so uh so that that's the let's say 50% of what we do is is what you say 50% of what we do is is what you just described so the fasting MIM making just described so the fasting MIM making diet and and and the origin of that is diet and and and the origin of that is in something called color restriction in something called color restriction which we talked about in the past and which we talked about in the past and the fact that you know my my former

the fact that you know my my former Mentor was you know one of the pioneers Mentor was you know one of the pioneers of color restriction which is just you of color restriction which is just you know what happens in a normal person know what happens in a normal person that has a normal diet if you reduce the that has a normal diet if you reduce the calories by 20 25% in my observation calories by 20 25% in my observation that that was just not feasible and not that that was just not feasible and not very difficult for people to do and very difficult for people to do and potentially giving problems and potentially giving problems and solutions right so so then the fast solutions right so so then the fast making diet was about can we get the making diet was about can we get the same effects as this this phenomenal same effects as this this phenomenal effects the calor station has been effects the calor station has been demonstrated to have in monkeys in lots demonstrated to have in monkeys in lots of different animals and in people with of different animals and in people with problems right so so that was the idea problems right so so that was the idea like maybe you do this five days once a like maybe you do this five days once a month and maybe you do it as little as month and maybe you do it as little as every three or four months and that's every three or four months and that's what we're actually testing now in what we're actually testing now in southern Italy on a southern Italy on a big cohort yes so the fast making diet big cohort yes so the fast making diet is is that and we can talk about it then is is that and we can talk about it then we working on what I call the longevity we working on what I call the longevity diet and that's a big part and so in diet and that's a big part and so in fact we have a number of papers are fact we have a number of papers are going to be published in the next year going to be published in the next year or two which is about what if you eat a

or two which is about what if you eat a normal diet you know so we've been normal diet you know so we've been talking about Mediterranean diet and talking about Mediterranean diet and ketogenic diet and so we we just tested ketogenic diet and so we we just tested them all right so in mice and and now them all right so in mice and and now we're testing a lot of these diets and we're testing a lot of these diets and we're comparing them you know so what if we're comparing them you know so what if you can compare a vegan diet and a you can compare a vegan diet and a ketogenic diet and what I call the ketogenic diet and what I call the longevity diet which is a pescetarian longevity diet which is a pescetarian diet how do these affect aging longevity diet how do these affect aging longevity age related diseases and also Frailty age related diseases and also Frailty and strength right so that's another big and strength right so that's another big part of of of part of of of laboratory what you eat every day so laboratory what you eat every day so let's move away from words like let's move away from words like Mediterranean diet or Okinawa diet and Mediterranean diet or Okinawa diet and and just move into uh what is it about and just move into uh what is it about these diets that is so protective is it these diets that is so protective is it the protein is it the type of protein the protein is it the type of protein right so for example you could say high right so for example you could say high protein low protein and I I will argue protein low protein and I I will argue it's irrelevant right because you can it's irrelevant right because you can have a five to 10 fold difference in have a five to 10 fold difference in certain amino acids with the same level certain amino acids with the same level of proteins you know if you eat legumes of proteins you know if you eat legumes versus you eat and so times you can have versus you eat and so times you can have that between different plant-based

that between different plant-based sources right you can have a five-fold sources right you can have a five-fold difference of I mean certain essential difference of I mean certain essential amino acids between two different amino acids between two different plant-based sources so I think we plant-based sources so I think we probably need to move away from also probably need to move away from also same protein in levels right and move same protein in levels right and move into amino acid profiles anyways it's into amino acid profiles anyways it's just a uh I think the the the pillar just a uh I think the the the pillar number two of my work is you know what number two of my work is you know what do you eat every day is going to have a do you eat every day is going to have a huge impact on your health span and huge impact on your health span and lifespan and so what is it that you lifespan and so what is it that you should change among all the things that should change among all the things that that you eat and and how do you that you eat and and how do you personalize it right because I always personalize it right because I always say you know you can have eggplants and say you know you can have eggplants and and and be very healthy or you can have and and be very healthy or you can have eggplants and be miserable because they eggplants and be miserable because they happen to cause an inflammatory response happen to cause an inflammatory response in you right so so yeah two people you in you right so so yeah two people you know maybe even brothers and sisters know maybe even brothers and sisters right one could could be having eggplant right one could could be having eggplant all day and one could be very much all day and one could be very much sensitive to it so yeah so the everyday

sensitive to it so yeah so the everyday I think diet is another important thing I think diet is another important thing and the third one is genetics right so and the third one is genetics right so not just we don't look at diet in a not just we don't look at diet in a vacuum we look at diet whether it's vacuum we look at diet whether it's fasting or or eating as how does it fasting or or eating as how does it affect uh the genes that regulate the affect uh the genes that regulate the aging process how does it affect igf1 aging process how does it affect igf1 growth growth hormone growth hormone growth growth hormone growth hormone receptor how does it AFF Tor you know R receptor how does it AFF Tor you know R and all these genes these networks that and all these genes these networks that that are now clearly and we talked about that are now clearly and we talked about in the past a simple organism we can in the past a simple organism we can manipulate these genes and if we combine manipulate these genes and if we combine fasting with genetic mutation we make fasting with genetic mutation we make simple organism live 10 times longer simple organism live 10 times longer right so we're trying to bring that to right so we're trying to bring that to to people so you know of course you to people so you know of course you cannot going to make somebody live 10 cannot going to make somebody live 10 times longer but could you make him 50% times longer but could you make him 50% longer right so I think it's possible longer right so I think it's possible right so from 80 to 120 that is possible right so from 80 to 120 that is possible and uh yeah and I think all of this has and uh yeah and I think all of this has to be understood very well and put to be understood very well and put together together in in a way that um

together together in in a way that um will cause the benefits without the will cause the benefits without the problems you know or without generating problems you know or without generating new problems MH it's so complicated you new problems MH it's so complicated you know there are general principles and know there are general principles and yet there are you know there's diversity yet there are you know there's diversity to your point about the eggplant that to your point about the eggplant that you have to address and I I think what's you have to address and I I think what's interesting about your work is that uh interesting about your work is that uh and and maybe what's somewhat unusual and and maybe what's somewhat unusual about you as somebody who is a research about you as somebody who is a research scientist is that you are thinking about scientist is that you are thinking about how you balance your how you balance your discoveries around efficaciousness with discoveries around efficaciousness with sustainability and adherence in the sustainability and adherence in the general population it's one thing to general population it's one thing to look under a microscope have a discovery look under a microscope have a discovery and extrapolate from that into some sort and extrapolate from that into some sort of principle but you know how can that of principle but you know how can that be translated into something that the be translated into something that the average person can take and use sustain average person can take and use sustain that will benefit them over time yes and that will benefit them over time yes and I think that we want to take it all the I think that we want to take it all the way to uh disease cures you know not not

way to uh disease cures you know not not just treatment cures right so now for just treatment cures right so now for example we with diabetes uh we now have example we with diabetes uh we now have three or four trials all of them showing three or four trials all of them showing a 50 to 70% regression of the disease a 50 to 70% regression of the disease and then on the fmd on the fmd just once and then on the fmd on the fmd just once a month without changing their diet and a month without changing their diet and that's a very important thing right so that's a very important thing right so we don't change your diet we don't we don't change your diet we don't change your lifestyle and we're saying change your lifestyle and we're saying so you know for thousands of years so you know for thousands of years people have been talking about food as people have been talking about food as medicine right but it really never medicine right but it really never happened right so so that's what we're happened right so so that's what we're trying to do say can can we standardize trying to do say can can we standardize this you know vegan based medicine and this you know vegan based medicine and then use it to in some cases even cure then use it to in some cases even cure diseases and so diabetes I think is diseases and so diabetes I think is definitely one of the ones where we're definitely one of the ones where we're very confident and um so University of very confident and um so University of leaden well University of heidenberg did leaden well University of heidenberg did the first trial a couple years ago and the first trial a couple years ago and show impressive impressive effects A1C show impressive impressive effects A1C but also on reduction of drug use and but also on reduction of drug use and then uh Laden repeated and got the same

then uh Laden repeated and got the same results and um so so I think yes this is results and um so so I think yes this is a you know feasible ways to bring people a you know feasible ways to bring people back to a functional state from a back to a functional state from a disease state to a functional State and disease state to a functional State and I think that you know a lot of that has I think that you know a lot of that has to do with molecular mechanisms that are to do with molecular mechanisms that are much more sophisticated than people um much more sophisticated than people um you know may imagine so for example we you know may imagine so for example we just published in collaboration with just published in collaboration with Laura perin at a children's hpal Laura perin at a children's hpal hospital we publish on the use of the hospital we publish on the use of the fmd in kidney in rats with kidney damage fmd in kidney in rats with kidney damage and then in people with kidney disease and then in people with kidney disease right but in people of course we we right but in people of course we we don't get to see what happens but in don't get to see what happens but in rats we get to see what happens and it's rats we get to see what happens and it's really remarkable so we damage the the really remarkable so we damage the the kidney and you see a complete disruption kidney and you see a complete disruption of the gene expression so how genes are of the gene expression so how genes are are turned on and off in the different are turned on and off in the different cells of the kidney and then we start cells of the kidney and then we start the fasting miming diet and you see that the fasting miming diet and you see that so there's a there's a very precise so there's a there's a very precise architecture let's say right

architecture let's say right three-dimensional and that completely three-dimensional and that completely destroyed by the by this toxin that we destroyed by the by this toxin that we give the rats right then we start the give the rats right then we start the fasting making that cycles and you see fasting making that cycles and you see everything going back to the to where it everything going back to the to where it was right almost like a magic uh U was right almost like a magic uh U intervention so it's not really the intervention so it's not really the fasty mimicking diet that is doing fasty mimicking diet that is doing anything right it is the rat that always anything right it is the rat that always and people are the same they always had and people are the same they always had programs that are able to uh be programs that are able to uh be triggered by fasting to turn on triggered by fasting to turn on regenerative and developmental like regenerative and developmental like program so the same genes that are used program so the same genes that are used when the organ when the kidneys are are when the organ when the kidneys are are first generated in a in a a baby like first generated in a in a a baby like plur poent stem cell generation is that plur poent stem cell generation is that what you're talking about yes yes so the what you're talking about yes yes so the the cells are being reprogrammed into uh the cells are being reprogrammed into uh into some some of these reprogramming into some some of these reprogramming factors yamanaka factors also known as factors yamanaka factors also known as yamanaka factors are turned on and you yamanaka factors are turned on and you see the every organ is turning on

see the every organ is turning on different ones right so some in some different ones right so some in some cases you see o four being turned on in cases you see o four being turned on in some cases you see uh M so different some cases you see uh M so different organs use different ones but they all organs use different ones but they all have the same thing in common they turn have the same thing in common they turn on these many genes that are involved in on these many genes that are involved in cellular in organ generation and then cellular in organ generation and then that's how they can go from this very that's how they can go from this very disrupted State back to the previous disrupted State back to the previous healthy States so they know exactly you healthy States so they know exactly you know what to turn on to get back to fix know what to turn on to get back to fix the problem so um yeah so then that the problem so um yeah so then that that's the power of this uh of this that's the power of this uh of this fasting Ming diets uh so turning on the fasting Ming diets uh so turning on the ability of the body to fix itself and so ability of the body to fix itself and so now you know diabetes we're seeing it now you know diabetes we're seeing it we're seeing now with the with kidney we're seeing now with the with kidney disease we are now seeing it with uh um disease we are now seeing it with uh um I mean at least this is in humans and I mean at least this is in humans and and and and animals but for some other and and and animals but for some other like gut we clearly seeing in animal like gut we clearly seeing in animal studies and now there are many a number studies and now there are many a number of trials that will test it in in

of trials that will test it in in clinical trials you know what is your clinical trials you know what is your understanding of the you know kind of understanding of the you know kind of mechanistic landscape here how much of mechanistic landscape here how much of this can be attributed simply to caloric this can be attributed simply to caloric restriction how much to the timing restriction how much to the timing window and how much to the you know kind window and how much to the you know kind of macro composition of the fmd or of macro composition of the fmd or whatever kind of fasting diet that one whatever kind of fasting diet that one is is on the eating window none because we on the eating window none because we don't use eating window in the fmd uh um don't use eating window in the fmd uh um you know diet so people can eat for 18 you know diet so people can eat for 18 hours a day if they want to right so so hours a day if they want to right so so that's in that case I'm not saying that that's in that case I'm not saying that that's not beneficial you know as we that's not beneficial you know as we discussed earlier uh but not in this discussed earlier uh but not in this case color restriction probably none case color restriction probably none because per month mice rats and and because per month mice rats and and probably people they eat about the same probably people they eat about the same amount so they overeat anything they amount so they overeat anything they they didn't eat during the uh the fmd they didn't eat during the uh the fmd five days right so they have 25 26 days five days right so they have 25 26 days the to even overeat a little bit and and

the to even overeat a little bit and and and this is what we see very clearly in and this is what we see very clearly in animal models that per month rats they animal models that per month rats they receive the the fasting making diet eat receive the the fasting making diet eat the same level of calories as um as the the same level of calories as um as the control as those on the control control as those on the control diet yeah so I think it's it's mostly diet yeah so I think it's it's mostly signaling some of it seems to be Stem signaling some of it seems to be Stem Cell Activation so for example in the Cell Activation so for example in the blood we see an increase in what's blood we see an increase in what's called lth hsc's hematop stem cells called lth hsc's hematop stem cells uh so in the blood it seems to be stem uh so in the blood it seems to be stem cell driven in lots of other organs the cell driven in lots of other organs the gut the kidney um and and um you know gut the kidney um and and um you know some other tissues um it seems to be some other tissues um it seems to be reprogramming right what we just reprogramming right what we just discussed so I think that on one side is discussed so I think that on one side is the stem cell reprogramming uh the stem cell reprogramming uh mechanisms and on the other side it's mechanisms and on the other side it's probably metabolic um metabolic switches probably metabolic um metabolic switches what does that mean it means that people what does that mean it means that people and all kinds of organisms they can be and all kinds of organisms they can be in a fat storing mode or energy storing

in a fat storing mode or energy storing mode or in an energy burning mode right mode or in an energy burning mode right so if it's summer um and um and you have so if it's summer um and um and you have plenty of food you have excess food you plenty of food you have excess food you want to put it away right and um if it's want to put it away right and um if it's winter and you don't uh have any food or winter and you don't uh have any food or or food is SCS then you will start using or food is SCS then you will start using those uh reserves that's the other big those uh reserves that's the other big effect of the fasting making diet is effect of the fasting making diet is unlocking that but very importantly and unlocking that but very importantly and I don't remember if we talked about I don't remember if we talked about before without getting the organism into before without getting the organism into a Thrifty mode right so because if you a Thrifty mode right so because if you go long enough now we know from calor go long enough now we know from calor restriction studies and lots of lots of restriction studies and lots of lots of human studies that eventually if you human studies that eventually if you starve or restrict a system of a human starve or restrict a system of a human body for long enough it'll go into a body for long enough it'll go into a energy saving mode and so you want to energy saving mode and so you want to trigger this metabolic switch from the trigger this metabolic switch from the fat storage to the fat burning but don't fat storage to the fat burning but don't get into the Thrifty mode which now is get into the Thrifty mode which now is going to try to save anything that it

going to try to save anything that it can so lower energy expenditure and save can so lower energy expenditure and save it because the system is worried about it because the system is worried about running out of fuel right so it's very running out of fuel right so it's very tricky right this is why the five five tricky right this is why the five five days of the fasting meing diet and and days of the fasting meing diet and and then go back because and and that's why then go back because and and that's why also eating is probably important right also eating is probably important right so you're eating but you're restricting so you're eating but you're restricting for five days and the message is okay for five days and the message is okay get out of the energy saving mode burn get out of the energy saving mode burn the fat and we see the Ketone bodies go the fat and we see the Ketone bodies go up and you know and the fat burning up and you know and the fat burning clearly going up but don't enter this clearly going up but don't enter this energy saving mode uh because we're okay energy saving mode uh because we're okay we're not going to starve right so from we're not going to starve right so from a lay person's perspective that would a lay person's perspective that would mean an emergency state in which the mean an emergency state in which the body is essentially saying like slow the body is essentially saying like slow the metabolism down like we got to conserve metabolism down like we got to conserve everything uh because you know we don't everything uh because you know we don't know when we're going to get our next know when we're going to get our next meal and everything kind of goes into meal and everything kind of goes into low power mode yes and that low power low power mode yes and that low power mode could last years right this is why

mode could last years right this is why sometimes you hear people saying I don't sometimes you hear people saying I don't know what happened I'm not eating know what happened I'm not eating anything and I cannot lose weight right anything and I cannot lose weight right and this is this is a big problem right and this is this is a big problem right and this is what people understand the and this is what people understand the devil is in the detail if you get into devil is in the detail if you get into that it could be epigenetically that it could be epigenetically regulated what does it mean it means regulated what does it mean it means that the DNA can get modified to impose that the DNA can get modified to impose this Thrifty mode right impose that this Thrifty mode right impose that energy expenditure should be the lowest energy expenditure should be the lowest as low as possible cuz that's my biggest as low as possible cuz that's my biggest problem you're going to starve to that problem you're going to starve to that and so for a couple years I'll keep you and so for a couple years I'll keep you in this energy saving mode and then in this energy saving mode and then we'll see things are consistently better we'll see things are consistently better maybe I'll get you out of it right so maybe I'll get you out of it right so yeah so I think that a lot of that is yeah so I think that a lot of that is happening and and a very few clinics happening and and a very few clinics that are dealing with people that are that are dealing with people that are overweight and overweight and obese understand this and so with this obese understand this and so with this understanding and and intervening is understanding and and intervening is very difficult to to get the person out very difficult to to get the person out of this potentially epigenetic lack that of this potentially epigenetic lack that that makes them just hungry all the time

that makes them just hungry all the time and with low energy expenditure so and with low energy expenditure so making it impossible I think that's a making it impossible I think that's a sort of common but underd discussed sort of common but underd discussed thing that happens with people who are thing that happens with people who are sort of chronically overweight and sort of chronically overweight and they've gone on a lot of extreme diets they've gone on a lot of extreme diets over the years and restricted their over the years and restricted their eating Etc and are in that state where eating Etc and are in that state where now they'll they'll say like it doesn't now they'll they'll say like it doesn't matter what I do I can't I can't lose matter what I do I can't I can't lose weight it doesn't matter how much I weight it doesn't matter how much I exercise and I'm doing all the right exercise and I'm doing all the right things and I'm kind of in this place things and I'm kind of in this place where I just you know maintain the same where I just you know maintain the same overweight status forever my energy overweight status forever my energy levels are low Etc all of that so for levels are low Etc all of that so for somebody who is experiencing that or is somebody who is experiencing that or is listening to this and is relating to listening to this and is relating to that what is that long road out of that that what is that long road out of that like how do they you know where should like how do they you know where should they kind of direct their attention to they kind of direct their attention to you know claw out of that hole Yeah so I you know claw out of that hole Yeah so I mean so the the cre C Foundation that I mean so the the cre C Foundation that I that I started um has dieticians that that I started um has dieticians that are specialized in this it's a non it are specialized in this it's a non it it's here in Los Angeles but it can

it's here in Los Angeles but it can follow anybody anywhere and we usually follow anybody anywhere and we usually apply four things we apply the longevity apply four things we apply the longevity diet is pescatarian uh low protein diet is pescatarian uh low protein mostly plant-based uh diet um we the mostly plant-based uh diet um we the fast iming diet and the 12 hour Tim rest fast iming diet and the 12 hour Tim rest the eating and then the exercise right the eating and then the exercise right and and this a combination of this and and and this a combination of this and some people say I don't want to do the some people say I don't want to do the fasting making diet and so people say I fasting making diet and so people say I don't want to do the longevity diet and don't want to do the longevity diet and but you know most people say okay I can but you know most people say okay I can do three out of four or two out of four do three out of four or two out of four and I would say that it takes about 1 to and I would say that it takes about 1 to two years to get somebody back to where two years to get somebody back to where they need to be and just comfortable they need to be and just comfortable with uh with this new diet in and a lot with uh with this new diet in and a lot of times we try to minimize the changes of times we try to minimize the changes right we we really focus on not giveing right we we really focus on not giveing you uh here's a diet that you should you uh here's a diet that you should have it's more uh what do you what is have it's more uh what do you what is your diet and what are what are the your diet and what are what are the problems that you're having can we problems that you're having can we change this um and um and and can we me change this um and um and and can we me minimize the changes that you have as minimize the changes that you have as long as you think you can keep them for

long as you think you can keep them for the rest of your life right so that's the rest of your life right so that's really the important thing because and really the important thing because and I'm sure we discussed it before if you I'm sure we discussed it before if you start doing this yo-yo then you're in start doing this yo-yo then you're in trouble right then then it's worse than trouble right then then it's worse than having done anything at all right it's having done anything at all right it's better to just keep the weight and and better to just keep the weight and and keep the problems rather than lose it keep the problems rather than lose it and regain it that's what the great and regain it that's what the great majority of people majority of people do hey everybody today's episode is do hey everybody today's episode is brought to you by seed gut health I talk brought to you by seed gut health I talk about it all the time on the podcast you about it all the time on the podcast you know it's important if you've even know it's important if you've even listened to a few of my podcasts I think listened to a few of my podcasts I think I've maybe devoted I don't know a dozen I've maybe devoted I don't know a dozen two dozen episodes to the microbiome you two dozen episodes to the microbiome you got to take care of your gut health if got to take care of your gut health if you want to have Optimal Health how do you want to have Optimal Health how do you do that well your nutrition your you do that well your nutrition your lifestyle habits sleep all of these lifestyle habits sleep all of these things play into that but it's also things play into that but it's also important to find a really good important to find a really good Prebiotic and probiotic how do you do Prebiotic and probiotic how do you do that well there's a lot of nonsense out that well there's a lot of nonsense out there so you got to follow the science there so you got to follow the science and the best evidence-based product that and the best evidence-based product that I found out there is seeds ds01 daily

I found out there is seeds ds01 daily symbiotic I've been taking it for I symbiotic I've been taking it for I don't know over 3 years at this point don't know over 3 years at this point every single day there's just a every single day there's just a tremendous amount of science behind this tremendous amount of science behind this product I urge you to check it out and product I urge you to check it out and right now it's a great time to do that right now it's a great time to do that because you can get 25% off your first because you can get 25% off your first month of seeds ds01 daily symbiotic hit month of seeds ds01 daily symbiotic hit the link in the description below to the link in the description below to visit seed.com roll and use code Rich visit seed.com roll and use code Rich Roll Roll 25 get on 25 get on it so Squarespace has been a longtime it so Squarespace has been a longtime partner of the show and what I love partner of the show and what I love about it is it just demystifies about it is it just demystifies everything about what's required to make everything about what's required to make a website you don't need to be a a website you don't need to be a designer you don't need to know how to designer you don't need to know how to code everything is right at your code everything is right at your fingertips they make it super simple and fingertips they make it super simple and they've got these unbelievably beautiful they've got these unbelievably beautiful templates to choose from that are templates to choose from that are oriented around whatever your needs may oriented around whatever your needs may be whether you need a simple landing be whether you need a simple landing page or a full-on online shop snap page or a full-on online shop snap crackle pop Square Bas has the tools you crackle pop Square Bas has the tools you need to launch your business including

need to launch your business including e-commerce templates and inventory e-commerce templates and inventory management so make that website you got management so make that website you got it click the link in the description it click the link in the description below for a free trial and when you're below for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code Rich Roll ready to launch use offer code Rich Roll to save 10% off your first purchase of a to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or website or [Music] [Music] domain um it's one thing to talk about domain um it's one thing to talk about fasting in the context of weight loss I fasting in the context of weight loss I mean let's be honest that's probably mean let's be honest that's probably what gets most people interested in in what gets most people interested in in this world to begin with another thing this world to begin with another thing to talk about it in the context of of to talk about it in the context of of chronic lifestyle disease prevention but chronic lifestyle disease prevention but certainly you know if it if it helps you certainly you know if it if it helps you to lose weight then you're at a lower to lose weight then you're at a lower risk for you know kind of being risk for you know kind of being afflicted by many of those diseases and afflicted by many of those diseases and then another thing altogether to talk then another thing altogether to talk about disease reversal which you already about disease reversal which you already sort of touched on what was the sort of touched on what was the lightning bolt moment for you where you lightning bolt moment for you where you began to see like oh my Lord like this began to see like oh my Lord like this actually has an impact on reversing

actually has an impact on reversing conditions that people have like serious conditions that people have like serious conditions well of course we've been conditions well of course we've been working on cancer for a long time but as working on cancer for a long time but as far as multi-stem regeneration I think far as multi-stem regeneration I think the first one was our our work on U the first one was our our work on U chemotherapy and the in the immune chemotherapy and the in the immune system right and the in the blood and system right and the in the blood and the immune system so you know the mice the immune system so you know the mice would get chemotherapy and there would would get chemotherapy and there would be dramatic or drastic uh negative be dramatic or drastic uh negative effects of course on the immune system effects of course on the immune system and the white blood cells and and and and the white blood cells and and and they will come down and stay down and they will come down and stay down and this is a problem that a lot of cancer this is a problem that a lot of cancer patients have right it's all then we patients have right it's all then we started doing the fasting making di started doing the fasting making di cycle or the fasting Cycles back then we cycle or the fasting Cycles back then we were not this more than 10 years ago we were not this more than 10 years ago we were not even working with the fmd we were not even working with the fmd we were working with just water only were working with just water only fasting in mice and we saw that um the fasting in mice and we saw that um the stem cell we saw the white blood cell so stem cell we saw the white blood cell so the the immune cells will come back up the the immune cells will come back up uh only in the mice that were giving uh only in the mice that were giving chemotherapy Plus uh fasting Cycles chemotherapy Plus uh fasting Cycles right and so we said this how is it

right and so we said this how is it possible right they come down so the possible right they come down so the fasting was not protecting the lowering fasting was not protecting the lowering of the white blood cells it was just of the white blood cells it was just making them come back up to normal making them come back up to normal within a couple months right and so we within a couple months right and so we it turned out to be it was stem cells it turned out to be it was stem cells right so the the fmd Cycles were turning right so the the fmd Cycles were turning on the the bone marrow stem cells and on the the bone marrow stem cells and the bone marrow stem cells it took a the bone marrow stem cells it took a couple of months to regenerate healthy couple of months to regenerate healthy white blood cells and repopulate the white blood cells and repopulate the normal immune system right so so really normal immune system right so so really remarkable effect and then we we had a remarkable effect and then we we had a follow-up paper with the pancreas where follow-up paper with the pancreas where we you know completely damaged the we you know completely damaged the pancreas in animals um so completely pancreas in animals um so completely blocked insulin production by the blocked insulin production by the pancreas permanently and then we started pancreas permanently and then we started the fmd cycles and then you see that the fmd cycles and then you see that again this this yam two yamanaka factors again this this yam two yamanaka factors being turned on in the pancreatic cells being turned on in the pancreatic cells in the beta cells of the pancreas and in the beta cells of the pancreas and then uh after you know a couple weeks then uh after you know a couple weeks insulin will get back to normal insulin will get back to normal and so this was um you know showing that

and so this was um you know showing that uh the pancreas can fix itself and can uh the pancreas can fix itself and can go back to normal insulin production you go back to normal insulin production you know so essentially U treating type one know so essentially U treating type one diabetes right and and and so those are diabetes right and and and so those are the the two papers that I think one stem the the two papers that I think one stem cells and the other one reprogramming in cells and the other one reprogramming in a very sophisticated way right so I'm a very sophisticated way right so I'm always um entertained by you know the always um entertained by you know the sort of pharmaceutical point of view sort of pharmaceutical point of view that you know drugs are sophisticated that you know drugs are sophisticated and what could nutrition possibly do and what could nutrition possibly do right and and instead I think you see right and and instead I think you see evidence for you know nutrition starting evidence for you know nutrition starting something that is so sophisticated and something that is so sophisticated and it's so old right it's billions of years it's so old right it's billions of years old and and it's been is evolved for the old and and it's been is evolved for the process of for the purpose of fixing process of for the purpose of fixing lots of things in in a in a in a way lots of things in in a in a in a way that uh it would be unimaginable with that uh it would be unimaginable with any cocktail or drugs or intervention any cocktail or drugs or intervention that you could think of for now right that you could think of for now right maybe you know 20 30 years from now

maybe you know 20 30 years from now we'll have artificial intelligence we'll have artificial intelligence driven repair systems and it be another driven repair systems and it be another world but but I think that it's going to world but but I think that it's going to be hard for a while to to beat that be hard for a while to to beat that extremely sophisticated you know three extremely sophisticated you know three billion year old uh system that has the billion year old uh system that has the job of identifying a problem and and you job of identifying a problem and and you know coming up with a solution yeah it's know coming up with a solution yeah it's been designed through Evolution over so been designed through Evolution over so many years to you know work work in a many years to you know work work in a way that the blunt instrumentation of way that the blunt instrumentation of pharmaceuticals can't like they're pharmaceuticals can't like they're directed at one thing very bluntly and directed at one thing very bluntly and then there's all sorts of Downstream then there's all sorts of Downstream implications and side effects from that implications and side effects from that that you don't see with the nutrition that you don't see with the nutrition intervention right like well you can see intervention right like well you can see it with the nutrition intervention if it with the nutrition intervention if you misapply right if you don't you misapply right if you don't understand mechanisms you could cause understand mechanisms you could cause problems right it's very powerful and so problems right it's very powerful and so if you don't understand how it works if you don't understand how it works then you could do a lot of damage I give then you could do a lot of damage I give you an example there was a a paper you an example there was a a paper recently so so for the longest time recently so so for the longest time we've been we've been saying if you give chemotherapy to a

saying if you give chemotherapy to a mouse or a person uh don't refeed the mouse or a person uh don't refeed the mouse of the person while the mouse of the person while the chemotherapy is still high in the system chemotherapy is still high in the system right because the refeeding means the right because the refeeding means the growth factors go way up and now you growth factors go way up and now you have a very quick proliferation of cells have a very quick proliferation of cells while there's a lot of chemotherapy in while there's a lot of chemotherapy in the system right and so year ago the system right and so year ago somebody published an intermittent somebody published an intermittent fasting like I think it was alternate fasting like I think it was alternate day fasting showing that the opposite of day fasting showing that the opposite of what we have shown for long-term fasting what we have shown for long-term fasting by using you know everyday fasting so by using you know everyday fasting so they give chemotherapy and then they they give chemotherapy and then they cycled normal food fasting normal food cycled normal food fasting normal food fasting so now you have high levels of fasting so now you have high levels of chemotherapy together with the refeeding chemotherapy together with the refeeding it's a very bad combination right and as it's a very bad combination right and as as we had predicted the cardiotoxicity as we had predicted the cardiotoxicity went up instead of down right so the you went up instead of down right so the you know two different methods of fasting know two different methods of fasting one causes you know really remarkable one causes you know really remarkable protection of the heart the other one protection of the heart the other one caus cuses remarkable damage to the caus cuses remarkable damage to the heart right and both of them are called

heart right and both of them are called fasting so this is why it's very fasting so this is why it's very important to you know standardize it important to you know standardize it make food as medicine test it very make food as medicine test it very carefully understand the mechanism and carefully understand the mechanism and then you know and then and only then it then you know and then and only then it would beat I think that lots of drug would beat I think that lots of drug based approaches you yeah some of the based approaches you yeah some of the remarkable study results come from rats remarkable study results come from rats and mice you talked about the kidney and and mice you talked about the kidney and the pancreas Etc uh how much of that can the pancreas Etc uh how much of that can we sort of extrap to apply to humans we sort of extrap to apply to humans obviously you can't study humans in the obviously you can't study humans in the same way like I'm always confused about same way like I'm always confused about you know how how much we can read into you know how how much we can read into these animal studies in terms of their these animal studies in terms of their applicability to human biology I think applicability to human biology I think that uh I mean of course so we we that uh I mean of course so we we running trials right we we but we I mean running trials right we we but we I mean lots of universities in a lot of lot of lots of universities in a lot of lot of these trials are independent of us these trials are independent of us meaning we just help them uh do the meaning we just help them uh do the trial but so a lot of them have been trial but so a lot of them have been demonstrated now in the clinic like demonstrated now in the clinic like diabetes type two um and you know there diabetes type two um and you know there are number of papers uh clinical papers

are number of papers uh clinical papers on cancer on cancer um and um and so um most likely the mechanisms are so um most likely the mechanisms are similar right so we've shown in mice similar right so we've shown in mice we've shown in rats and now we seen the we've shown in rats and now we seen the effects and now human effects and now human disease likely it's the same mechanism disease likely it's the same mechanism but we don't know right so for example but we don't know right so for example the people we just publish on kidney the people we just publish on kidney damage in in the rat and mouse and rat damage in in the rat and mouse and rat mice and rats so very powerful the fmd mice and rats so very powerful the fmd Cycles in fixing the the the damage but Cycles in fixing the the the damage but then in people it was a small trial but then in people it was a small trial but it was six patients and then seven it was six patients and then seven patients uh in it's called a randomized patients uh in it's called a randomized crossover trial right so first six crossover trial right so first six patient and then we we control diet and patient and then we we control diet and then the control diet group goes into then the control diet group goes into the fmd right and in both cases the fmd right and in both cases remarkable effect and what's called remarkable effect and what's called protein Ura so the protein in the urine protein Ura so the protein in the urine is evidence of of kidney damage right so is evidence of of kidney damage right so and not only protein Ura was um was

and not only protein Ura was um was reduced uh right after three fasting reduced uh right after three fasting Cycles in the kidney disease patients Cycles in the kidney disease patients but a year later and the great majority but a year later and the great majority of them still maintain that benefit of them still maintain that benefit right and interestingly when we look at right and interestingly when we look at this mesano stem cells uh in the blood this mesano stem cells uh in the blood kidney meano so they're like progenitor kidney meano so they're like progenitor cells for for kidney regeneration they cells for for kidney regeneration they tripled in the blood of patients right tripled in the blood of patients right so we don't know right is it so we don't know right is it are they being released to go to the are they being released to go to the kidneys are they being released in the kidneys are they being released in the bloodstream to go to the kidney and fix bloodstream to go to the kidney and fix the problem or are they increasing the the problem or are they increasing the kidney and leaked in the blood but it's kidney and leaked in the blood but it's really remarkable because you see a really remarkable because you see a three-fold increase in this progenitor three-fold increase in this progenitor cells that are clearly uh mostly um used cells that are clearly uh mostly um used to um repair kidney damage or generate to um repair kidney damage or generate uh kidney tissue right so yeah so so in uh kidney tissue right so yeah so so in a lot of the trials a lot of the trials we see something very much consistent

we see something very much consistent with what we see in the animal work and with what we see in the animal work and um of course proving it uh is more much um of course proving it uh is more much more complicated but in some cases we more complicated but in some cases we may not need to prove it right so right may not need to prove it right so right now um do we need to prove uh you know now um do we need to prove uh you know the the effect of the fmd and reversing the the effect of the fmd and reversing diabetes it be nice in humans so we know diabetes it be nice in humans so we know how it works in in mice do we need to how it works in in mice do we need to prove the mechanisms humans no we just prove the mechanisms humans no we just need to prove that that works it is ible need to prove that that works it is ible and um but yes it will be nice and um but yes it will be nice eventually to to show that you know for eventually to to show that you know for example Harvard is is is interested in example Harvard is is is interested in in looking at pancreatic in the type two in looking at pancreatic in the type two uh patients looking at uh whether beta uh patients looking at uh whether beta cell regeneration process that we shown cell regeneration process that we shown in mice is also occurring in the patient in mice is also occurring in the patient uh in the type two diabetes patients uh in the type two diabetes patients that are are receiving fasting making that are are receiving fasting making die Cycles so there are ways I think to die Cycles so there are ways I think to to look into to look into is reprogramming stem cell based is reprogramming stem cell based regeneration Etc happening in people it

regeneration Etc happening in people it just takes a lot longer what is the just takes a lot longer what is the receptivity in the traditional medical receptivity in the traditional medical community amongst General Practitioners community amongst General Practitioners or nutritionists and dietitians with or nutritionists and dietitians with respect to the work that you do fasting respect to the work that you do fasting in general the fasting mimicking diet in general the fasting mimicking diet because when you you know we could talk because when you you know we could talk about longevity all all day long and you about longevity all all day long and you know are we going to live to 120 but know are we going to live to 120 but meanwhile like something like between 30 meanwhile like something like between 30 and 40% of Americans are suffering from and 40% of Americans are suffering from type 2 diabetes or are pre-diabetic type 2 diabetes or are pre-diabetic obesity rates are through the roof obesity rates are through the roof childhood obesity rates are through the childhood obesity rates are through the roof heart disease is our number one roof heart disease is our number one like this is what's killing people right like this is what's killing people right and and this is kind of where everybody and and this is kind of where everybody should be focused in terms of should be focused in terms of constructing a lifestyle to avoid these constructing a lifestyle to avoid these chronic lifestyle ailments and your work chronic lifestyle ailments and your work and everything you talk about in your and everything you talk about in your books Etc seems to books Etc seems to say pretty clearly and loudly like that

say pretty clearly and loudly like that this is a way out of that you know kind this is a way out of that you know kind of death sentence that visits you know of death sentence that visits you know millions of people unnecessarily every millions of people unnecessarily every every year yeah and I think that the two every year yeah and I think that the two things are very much connected right so things are very much connected right so if you look at um the major risk factors if you look at um the major risk factors for diabetes cancer for diabetes cancer Alzheimer um and cardiovascular disease Alzheimer um and cardiovascular disease is aging right so if you just want to is aging right so if you just want to intervene on one thing it's better to intervene on one thing it's better to intervene on Aging than intervene on intervene on Aging than intervene on obesity right so and even obesity obesity right so and even obesity compare is dwarfed by the effects of 30 compare is dwarfed by the effects of 30 years of aging and any of these diseases years of aging and any of these diseases right I mean it's very small effect of right I mean it's very small effect of course it's got a big effect so but it's course it's got a big effect so but it's very small compared to aging at least 30 very small compared to aging at least 30 years of Aging right so so let's say years of Aging right so so let's say that you could make people 30 years that you could make people 30 years younger that's that'd be the best way to younger that's that'd be the best way to go right make them just just make him go right make them just just make him younger and they can even be overweight younger and they can even be overweight right um but of course you know the best right um but of course you know the best way to go would be uh to do right and way to go would be uh to do right and this is what you know the fasting making this is what you know the fasting making di the longevity diet do and and by the

di the longevity diet do and and by the way unlike what we see with the way unlike what we see with the glp1 um Agonist so far when we don't use glp1 um Agonist so far when we don't use drugs we don't see lean body mass loss drugs we don't see lean body mass loss it's very clear trial after trial after it's very clear trial after trial after trial um no Lim body mass loss we just trial um no Lim body mass loss we just don't see the bad that's far right of don't see the bad that's far right of course yeah you could say when you have course yeah you could say when you have millions of people maybe we will start millions of people maybe we will start seeing some bad but but it's a very seeing some bad but but it's a very coordinated it's very different right coordinated it's very different right than blocking an Agonist uh a glp1 than blocking an Agonist uh a glp1 receptor Agonist uh this is very receptor Agonist uh this is very coordinated response uh and and so there coordinated response uh and and so there is not really a theoretical reason why is not really a theoretical reason why there should be problems right and again there should be problems right and again we don't see in fact in mice we see bone we don't see in fact in mice we see bone density increase compared to the control density increase compared to the control so if you take mice middle age and we so if you take mice middle age and we give him the fmd all lifel long and we give him the fmd all lifel long and we look at bone density is higher than in look at bone density is higher than in the controls right so that means that the controls right so that means that maybe there is even and know bone uh maybe there is even and know bone uh regenerative we don't know I mean I'm

regenerative we don't know I mean I'm not I'm not claiming that there is but not I'm not claiming that there is but there may be but certainly in both mice there may be but certainly in both mice and humans uh we don't see muscle loss and humans uh we don't see muscle loss uh after even many cycles and in fact we uh after even many cycles and in fact we did a trial with women with breast did a trial with women with breast cancer and even after many cycles of the cancer and even after many cycles of the fmd if they had a good healthy fmd if they had a good healthy Mediterranean diet in between they Mediterranean diet in between they actually increase uh lim body mass right actually increase uh lim body mass right the muscle absolute weight increased and the muscle absolute weight increased and also the muscle function um was re was also the muscle function um was re was increased so the this is uh um you know increased so the this is uh um you know by by a what's called imped ometry method so a what's called imped ometry method so we don't know you know that part we we don't know you know that part we don't know how carefully was measured don't know how carefully was measured but certainly in general there seem to but certainly in general there seem to be protection of muscle mass in these be protection of muscle mass in these women even after many cycles of the women even after many cycles of the fasting M so so that's very important to fasting M so so that's very important to get the Reversed the ad deposi so the get the Reversed the ad deposi so the fats storage um probably reduce the

fats storage um probably reduce the inflammation and we clearly see these inflammation and we clearly see these anti-inflammatory effects of the fast anti-inflammatory effects of the fast making diet go after the aging process making diet go after the aging process so for example igf1 and all these these so for example igf1 and all these these aging markers are reduced and they aging markers are reduced and they reduce longterm you don't just see the reduce longterm you don't just see the insulin L profactor one being reduced insulin L profactor one being reduced temporarily and then go back up Lapin temporarily and then go back up Lapin and igf1 they reduce long term and this and igf1 they reduce long term and this is shown many trials right so uh yeah so is shown many trials right so uh yeah so it's going after the adiposity it's it's going after the adiposity it's going after after uh the the Aging um going after after uh the the Aging um acceleration or the Aging rate and it's acceleration or the Aging rate and it's doing so um because is guided right and doing so um because is guided right and we we developed a lot of this with that we we developed a lot of this with that those problems in mind is not affecting those problems in mind is not affecting the the healthy tissues including bone the the healthy tissues including bone and and muscle is there a use case for and and muscle is there a use case for somebody who is severely obese to go on somebody who is severely obese to go on on a gp1 and during that period of time

on a gp1 and during that period of time uh adopt the fmd until it becomes rot uh adopt the fmd until it becomes rot like it it becomes like easy to do that like it it becomes like easy to do that they're not you know kind of they don't they're not you know kind of they don't have the hunger pangs that they normally have the hunger pangs that they normally would have and because you know your would have and because you know your house is on fire you got to put the fire house is on fire you got to put the fire out before you can do anything else out before you can do anything else right like to take a person through that right like to take a person through that for however many months and then wean for however many months and then wean them off of it and then kind of monitor them off of it and then kind of monitor their adherence on longevity diet like their adherence on longevity diet like in your mind is that is that like a good in your mind is that is that like a good way to go like if somebody's really like way to go like if somebody's really like in a you know like a really in a you know like a really acute um unhealthy State yeah know in my acute um unhealthy State yeah know in my mind that's a option b right in my mind mind that's a option b right in my mind option A and I hope that you know option A and I hope that you know eventually the government will also eventually the government will also understand that we need professionals understand that we need professionals that are specialized in nutrition and that are specialized in nutrition and they they know what to do and they know they they know what to do and they know how to do this carefully and you know how to do this carefully and you know this probably involve molecular this probably involve molecular biologist Physicians uh and dietitians

biologist Physicians uh and dietitians right that team and maybe psychologist right that team and maybe psychologist right there none of this is reimbursed right there none of this is reimbursed or just the doctor part there is or just the doctor part there is reimbursed but even the doctor part not reimbursed but even the doctor part not clear that is reimbursed for for giving clear that is reimbursed for for giving nutritional and lifestyle advises right nutritional and lifestyle advises right so I would say you know that would be so I would say you know that would be the way they should be done like the way the way they should be done like the way we do it at the cree cous Foundation uh we do it at the cree cous Foundation uh is take your time take a couple years is take your time take a couple years and you know take the the the patient by and you know take the the the patient by the hand and say okay we're going to get the hand and say okay we're going to get there don't worry about it we'll we'll there don't worry about it we'll we'll address the hunger we'll address all of address the hunger we'll address all of it right it's a 360 approach and we'll it right it's a 360 approach and we'll get you there there's no hurry we'll get get you there there's no hurry we'll get you there in the absence of this yes so you there in the absence of this yes so there's for example a physician in Dr there's for example a physician in Dr Baker in in Brazil who's been doing Baker in in Brazil who's been doing exactly what you just said right so she exactly what you just said right so she gives L glutide which is a short um it's gives L glutide which is a short um it's a a glp1 Agonist um less than the new glp1 Agonist um less than the new versions right and um and so she

versions right and um and so she combines the fast mimicking diet with combines the fast mimicking diet with the with L glutide and then eventually the with L glutide and then eventually she gets the patient off L glutide and she gets the patient off L glutide and keeps them on the and yeah so the hunger keeps them on the and yeah so the hunger is was her main uh problem and she said is was her main uh problem and she said well I just have a easier time with the well I just have a easier time with the patient um by combining because then at patient um by combining because then at some point there the patient say okay I some point there the patient say okay I don't need the the drug anymore I'm good don't need the the drug anymore I'm good M and I can see the effects of the fmd M and I can see the effects of the fmd and I'm just uh then I continue with the and I'm just uh then I continue with the fmd and L glutide is like a lower dose fmd and L glutide is like a lower dose uh or less intense version of OIC or uh or less intense version of OIC or it's a shorter lasting something I think it's a shorter lasting something I think you have to give every day to the you have to give every day to the patient right so the health life is much patient right so the health life is much shorter it means that there is also less shorter it means that there is also less concerns because of course these glp1 concerns because of course these glp1 Agonist are are are causing insulin Agonist are are are causing insulin production right and and the faster production right and and the faster making di cause insulin sensitization so making di cause insulin sensitization so means that it makes insulin work better

means that it makes insulin work better so now if you increase the insulin on so now if you increase the insulin on one side and you make insulin work one side and you make insulin work better A lot better in on the other side better A lot better in on the other side you could have a problem because now you you could have a problem because now you could uh get the blood sugar level very could uh get the blood sugar level very low right very quickly and so yeah low right very quickly and so yeah that's why a continuous glucose monitor that's why a continuous glucose monitor would be a very good idea and a and a would be a very good idea and a and a physician they're really paying physician they're really paying attention because for example we've done attention because for example we've done a trial on type 1 diabetes in children a trial on type 1 diabetes in children in Italy this was the first first use of in Italy this was the first first use of the fmd in children and we were very the fmd in children and we were very concerned about just this right insulin concerned about just this right insulin injection and fmd and the the fact that injection and fmd and the the fact that maybe the nurses would not expected the maybe the nurses would not expected the child all of a sudden with the same child all of a sudden with the same level of insulin would be uh much more level of insulin would be uh much more responsive in in controlling glucose and responsive in in controlling glucose and and so we saw problems you know luckily and so we saw problems you know luckily we were prepared everybody was wearing we were prepared everybody was wearing continuous glucose monitors but um we we continuous glucose monitors but um we we caught it on time but we we we had some caught it on time but we we we had some issues even though I was very paranoid issues even though I was very paranoid at the beginning uh but they were not

at the beginning uh but they were not taking me very seriously like ah don't taking me very seriously like ah don't worry about it we do this all the time worry about it we do this all the time and but sure enough we ended up in in in and but sure enough we ended up in in in that situation at least with one child that situation at least with one child and so yeah so there was a very very and so yeah so there was a very very good to think of the worst right think good to think of the worst right think of the worst when you're combining drugs of the worst when you're combining drugs and fasting this is why option A I like and fasting this is why option A I like it much more because we don't see you it much more because we don't see you know muscle know muscle loss and it's also I just wrote an loss and it's also I just wrote an article on this is that you know we are article on this is that you know we are more and more underestimating the more and more underestimating the importance of the effort right so the importance of the effort right so the effort of doing it like you did it it's effort of doing it like you did it it's hard I understand you cannot maybe do it hard I understand you cannot maybe do it on your own but you got the on your own but you got the professionals around you they're helping professionals around you they're helping you put the effort in and and you know you put the effort in and and you know people don't want to hear that vter yeah people don't want to hear that vter yeah no I understand that but but people have no I understand that but but people have to hear that because you know I I wrote to hear that because you know I I wrote in the article I talked about exercise in the article I talked about exercise and now in the 50s nobody exercised and and now in the 50s nobody exercised and then some I forget the doctor came then some I forget the doctor came around and say you know people should

around and say you know people should exercise every day and people didn't exercise every day and people didn't know what that was what is that why and know what that was what is that why and and and I remember I read some of his and and I remember I read some of his interviews in the 60s and people were interviews in the 60s and people were like oh people are going to die if like oh people are going to die if they're going to exercise this much they're going to exercise this much every day right and and then eventually every day right and and then eventually the health of the world you know and hey the health of the world you know and hey that's tough right that's much tougher that's tough right that's much tougher than what I'm talking about to have to than what I'm talking about to have to exercise regularly right so but people exercise regularly right so but people do it do it so I I think that that's really the so I I think that that's really the solution also mentally psychologically solution also mentally psychologically you know in that article that I wrote I you know in that article that I wrote I said you know of course you cannot tell said you know of course you cannot tell everybody do 50 miles a week of exercise everybody do 50 miles a week of exercise or running right nobody's going to do it or running right nobody's going to do it but you know if you make it reasonable but you know if you make it reasonable let's say 150 minutes and that's what let's say 150 minutes and that's what people do now right in in Europe and in people do now right in in Europe and in the United States 150 minutes a week A the United States 150 minutes a week A lot of people do it it's it's not easy lot of people do it it's it's not easy but people manage and and and I think it but people manage and and and I think it makes them happier right than when they makes them happier right than when they exercise you so yeah I think it's a

exercise you so yeah I think it's a broader conversation around our broader conversation around our relationship with discomfort right and relationship with discomfort right and you know all good things are on the you know all good things are on the other side of the you know kind of other side of the you know kind of uncomfortable things that you're uncomfortable things that you're avoiding whether it's food nutrition avoiding whether it's food nutrition exercise or any other goal that you set exercise or any other goal that you set for yourself but the byproduct of of for yourself but the byproduct of of kind of grappling with that is well kind of grappling with that is well beyond like achieving the goal that beyond like achieving the goal that you've set for yourself because you've you've set for yourself because you've made this investment in yourself you did made this investment in yourself you did the hard thing you feel good about the hard thing you feel good about yourself and suddenly you're more yourself and suddenly you're more emotionally connected with your own emotionally connected with your own wellbeing and that spills over into like wellbeing and that spills over into like not just your external outlook on the not just your external outlook on the world and your own life but like how you world and your own life but like how you think about the decisions that you make think about the decisions that you make food exercise Etc but you know the food exercise Etc but you know the people you surround yourself with people you surround yourself with everything and all of that you know all everything and all of that you know all of those things are fundamental to of those things are fundamental to well-being yeah and but I agree with you well-being yeah and but I agree with you let's say 50 Maybe 60% of the population let's say 50 Maybe 60% of the population is not going to accept that short term

is not going to accept that short term right I think for exercise it took right I think for exercise it took decades for the U us and and then the decades for the U us and and then the world because this followed all over the world because this followed all over the world right this I think an American world right this I think an American idea it took decades maybe 20 or 30 idea it took decades maybe 20 or 30 years to have a a significant portion of years to have a a significant portion of the population actually saying I'm going the population actually saying I'm going to go jogging I'm going to go and take a to go jogging I'm going to go and take a bike and do you know uh 50k so yeah so bike and do you know uh 50k so yeah so so I think that you know before that so I think that you know before that happens happens yes we need to have methods that are um yes we need to have methods that are um maybe including drugs for for some for a maybe including drugs for for some for a percentage but certainly methods like percentage but certainly methods like you know the fmd and that's what I was you know the fmd and that's what I was saying earlier we were testing in saying earlier we were testing in southern Italy in one of the worst areas southern Italy in one of the worst areas of either one of the worst or the worst of either one of the worst or the worst in Europe right yeah we think of Italy in Europe right yeah we think of Italy as sort of this you know giant blue Zone as sort of this you know giant blue Zone but it's not really that not at all I but it's not really that not at all I mean if you look at calaban mean if you look at calaban C yeah so calaban CA have surpassed the C yeah so calaban CA have surpassed the the United States as far as overweight the United States as far as overweight uh portion in in in children right so

uh portion in in in children right so it's a big it's a big problem and so the it's a big it's a big problem and so the way we addressed it was what about if we way we addressed it was what about if we give an fmd for 5 days every three give an fmd for 5 days every three months and everybody thought it's crazy months and everybody thought it's crazy never going to work we haven't published never going to work we haven't published it yet but let's say that it's looking it yet but let's say that it's looking good so far right so so yeah so now it good so far right so so yeah so now it gets down to very little right the five gets down to very little right the five days every 90 days that you have to days every 90 days that you have to dedicate to this uh program in a box dedicate to this uh program in a box essentially a med Des send in a box you essentially a med Des send in a box you yeah since we last spoke uh I would say yeah since we last spoke uh I would say that there's been an explosion in that there's been an explosion in interest in uh Health span extension interest in uh Health span extension longevity medicine you know this field longevity medicine you know this field in which you've invested your career and in which you've invested your career and have been in for many many years uh a have been in for many many years uh a lot of energy right now and everybody lot of energy right now and everybody has their own kind of specific Lane has their own kind of specific Lane whether it's AI technology in you know whether it's AI technology in you know sort of the sophistication of scanning sort of the sophistication of scanning equipment like all of these developments equipment like all of these developments that are making Health span extension that are making Health span extension you know more and more plausible and I

you know more and more plausible and I think you know among this group of think you know among this group of people you share there's many things people you share there's many things principles ideas that you share in principles ideas that you share in common there are differences as well and common there are differences as well and I think one of the the key ones with I think one of the the key ones with respect to diet is this emphasis on respect to diet is this emphasis on protein so somebody like you know Peter protein so somebody like you know Peter AA Ronda Patrick they're always pushing AA Ronda Patrick they're always pushing protein talking about the importance of protein talking about the importance of protein particular ularly uh you know protein particular ularly uh you know after a certain age uh certainly after after a certain age uh certainly after age 65 when you really need to be eating age 65 when you really need to be eating more protein than you might think to more protein than you might think to maintain your muscle mass and and you maintain your muscle mass and and you know the kind of critical role that know the kind of critical role that muscle mass plays in terms of how you're muscle mass plays in terms of how you're aging up your fasting mimicking diet and aging up your fasting mimicking diet and and much of what you speak about kind of and much of what you speak about kind of goes in the other direction you know goes in the other direction you know maybe it's different when you reach a maybe it's different when you reach a certain age but at least on the fmd this certain age but at least on the fmd this is a pretty low protein protocol uh and is a pretty low protein protocol uh and it's not entirely vegan it can be

it's not entirely vegan it can be entirely vegan uh or or pescatarian entirely vegan uh or or pescatarian entirely vegan what's that entirely entirely vegan what's that entirely vegan right I mean you know I've heard vegan right I mean you know I've heard you talk about fish you know two or you talk about fish you know two or three times a week on the longevity diet three times a week on the longevity diet right so maybe you know kind of state right so maybe you know kind of state your case or your perspective on this your case or your perspective on this controversial macronutrient yeah so controversial macronutrient yeah so first let's take out the fmd the fast first let's take out the fmd the fast making diet because it's just 5 days making diet because it's just 5 days listen longevity diet three times a year listen longevity diet three times a year and so it's completely irrelevant so and so it's completely irrelevant so sometimes I've heard that argument that sometimes I've heard that argument that maybe Peter made it but I don't maybe Peter made it but I don't understand that because we're saying you understand that because we're saying you know this is 15 days in a year so even know this is 15 days in a year so even if you go zero protein will have no if you go zero protein will have no effect whatsoever on your muscle right effect whatsoever on your muscle right no effect and we've shown this no effect and we've shown this clinically in 10 different trials um in clinically in 10 different trials um in fact in a new trial we're actually fact in a new trial we're actually showing increasing muscle mass after six showing increasing muscle mass after six cycles of the fasting making di right uh cycles of the fasting making di right uh and even not just relative but um

and even not just relative but um absolute Lan body mass right so that's absolute Lan body mass right so that's clinically demonstrated to be false if clinically demonstrated to be false if anybody's saying the fmd is causing anybody's saying the fmd is causing reduction of of muscle mass it's the reduction of of muscle mass it's the opposite right so far it's the opposite opposite right so far it's the opposite the only time we see some Lim body mass the only time we see some Lim body mass loss is in combination in the diabetes loss is in combination in the diabetes trials in combination with drugs that's trials in combination with drugs that's the only time so far we've seen uh lim the only time so far we've seen uh lim body mass loss then the longevity Di is body mass loss then the longevity Di is very different what about every day very different what about every day right so yeah so I think that there's a right so yeah so I think that there's a big problem when we are using like a one big problem when we are using like a one or two pillar system to look at things or two pillar system to look at things right so you could let's say right so you could let's say epidemiology a lot of people love to use epidemiology a lot of people love to use epidemiology studies of big population epidemiology studies of big population right but but even if you look at right but but even if you look at epidemiology we've done that and we've epidemiology we've done that and we've done that um you know in in a study done that um you know in in a study publishing Jama with with Harvard we've publishing Jama with with Harvard we've done it in our own study uh it's pretty done it in our own study uh it's pretty clear that you don't need a lot of clear that you don't need a lot of proteins right and it's pretty clear

proteins right and it's pretty clear from many many studies that the people from many many studies that the people that do the best are mostly that do the best are mostly vegan low but sufficient proteins and vegan low but sufficient proteins and then in our own paper and we were the then in our own paper and we were the first one publishing on that the 65 was first one publishing on that the 65 was the switch moment right so 65 we did not the switch moment right so 65 we did not see so people reporting a low protein see so people reporting a low protein diet where there was overall mortality diet where there was overall mortality or was cancer mortality uh people or was cancer mortality uh people reporting a low prot or very low protein reporting a low prot or very low protein diet did the best up to age 65 and then diet did the best up to age 65 and then did not do so well after 65 so if a did not do so well after 65 so if a 80-year-old said I have a very low 80-year-old said I have a very low protein diet it did not do very well protein diet it did not do very well either for cancer or for overall either for cancer or for overall mortality um so in and then the harvor mortality um so in and then the harvor study with janci um in the JAMA paper I study with janci um in the JAMA paper I think that he showed um or we showed think that he showed um or we showed because I was a cter that plant-based because I was a cter that plant-based protein high high animal protein was not protein high high animal protein was not good but High plantbased protein was good but High plantbased protein was associated with improvements right and

associated with improvements right and that's where the the devil in the detail that's where the the devil in the detail comes in because there can be such a big comes in because there can be such a big difference as I mentioned earlier in difference as I mentioned earlier in amino acid levels in the plant-based amino acid levels in the plant-based proteins versus the the um the uh animal proteins versus the the um the uh animal based protein that is not even clear based protein that is not even clear what the meaning of protein is anymore what the meaning of protein is anymore meaning that it's irrelevant because meaning that it's irrelevant because it's it's really about 20 amino acids it's it's really about 20 amino acids right so so we should be talking about right so so we should be talking about amino acid level and amino acid patterns amino acid level and amino acid patterns and that probably explains so meaning and that probably explains so meaning that probably it's very clear that a low that probably it's very clear that a low but sufficient amino acid uh intake is but sufficient amino acid uh intake is what you want up to a certain age and by what you want up to a certain age and by the way the age should be biological age the way the age should be biological age it should not be chronological so it it should not be chronological so it could be 65 to somebody but it could be could be 65 to somebody but it could be 45 to somebody else and 72 to somebody 45 to somebody else and 72 to somebody else right so at some point and you see else right so at some point and you see the population weight instead of going the population weight instead of going up it comes down right that's the point up it comes down right that's the point where we see this switch in uh

where we see this switch in uh immortality uh prediction uh yeah so so immortality uh prediction uh yeah so so then it's about amino acids and again um then it's about amino acids and again um epidemiology is one pillar but then you epidemiology is one pillar but then you have clinical studies you have basic have clinical studies you have basic research so how do you make a mouse live research so how do you make a mouse live longer well over and over and over and longer well over and over and over and over for almost a 50 years uh low over for almost a 50 years uh low protein low me in diet right just you protein low me in diet right just you know in rats in mice and no matter who know in rats in mice and no matter who did it and so yeah so then that's like did it and so yeah so then that's like another pillar and then the centenarians another pillar and then the centenarians H whether you look at Okinawa had a 9% H whether you look at Okinawa had a 9% protein diet right and for the longest protein diet right and for the longest time her record longevity so I will time her record longevity so I will encourage my colleagues to you know just encourage my colleagues to you know just expand from one pillar science to you expand from one pillar science to you know five pillar and the fifth is know five pillar and the fifth is complex system but let's say even if you complex system but let's say even if you just go for four pillars and if you go just go for four pillars and if you go for four pillars you see the devil is in for four pillars you see the devil is in the detail it's about amino acids and the detail it's about amino acids and it's about having insufficient and it's about having insufficient and protect the immune system protect the protect the immune system protect the muscle protect the bones but reduce as

muscle protect the bones but reduce as much as possible the Aging rate because much as possible the Aging rate because again the what dominates is aging so again the what dominates is aging so that uh if you can make somebody younger that uh if you can make somebody younger they will live longer they will be much they will live longer they will be much healthier and again there is a 10 to 30 healthier and again there is a 10 to 30 fold difference between obesity and fold difference between obesity and aging and 30 years of Aging as a risk aging and 30 years of Aging as a risk factor for Alzheimer cancer factor for Alzheimer cancer cardiovascular disease diabetes Etc cardiovascular disease diabetes Etc right so yeah it's about aging the right so yeah it's about aging the proteins are driving the growth factor proteins are driving the growth factor which are clearly at the center of uh which are clearly at the center of uh the aging process in all organisms and the aging process in all organisms and this is why our work with the this is why our work with the ecuadorians comes come in right so the ecuadorians comes come in right so the ecuadorians have growth hormone receptor ecuadorians have growth hormone receptor deficiency and that's the protein deficiency and that's the protein pathway right so either mice mice they pathway right so either mice mice they have a growth hormone receptor or growth have a growth hormone receptor or growth hormone deficiency are the ones that hormone deficiency are the ones that live the longest they live 40% longer live the longest they live 40% longer with the lowest uh disease profile right with the lowest uh disease profile right this has been known John CAPIC Andre

this has been known John CAPIC Andre Barky work for decades now surprisingly Barky work for decades now surprisingly in yeast the 10-fold Lipan extension in yeast the 10-fold Lipan extension comes from the protein pathway mostly comes from the protein pathway mostly from the protein pathway so you block from the protein pathway so you block the protein pathway and the yeast now the protein pathway and the yeast now are reprogrammed to live 10 times longer are reprogrammed to live 10 times longer and then our work in Ecuador with people and then our work in Ecuador with people sure enough people that have growth sure enough people that have growth orone receptor deficiency are protected orone receptor deficiency are protected in spite of a terrible diet are in spite of a terrible diet are protected from diabetes they're protected from diabetes they're protected from cancer they're protected protected from cancer they're protected from um cognitive decline they seem to from um cognitive decline they seem to have and we brought them to LA to do a have and we brought them to LA to do a um a functional MRI test on their brain um a functional MRI test on their brain they had the the function of a much they had the the function of a much younger person cognitively and now we younger person cognitively and now we just publish on a neutral to positive just publish on a neutral to positive effect on cardiovascular disease which effect on cardiovascular disease which really surprised us that the plaques um really surprised us that the plaques um were lower or much lower in the in the were lower or much lower in the in the uh pathway the respon to protein intake uh pathway the respon to protein intake is blocked right the most damning part is blocked right the most damning part is the Harvard study showing a 40%

is the Harvard study showing a 40% increase in uh three different studies increase in uh three different studies um in this Frank who's work uh three um in this Frank who's work uh three different studies 40% increase in the different studies 40% increase in the diabetes risk in subjects eating high diabetes risk in subjects eating high protein diet right compared to the protein diet right compared to the lowest I think it was quintal lowest lowest I think it was quintal lowest quintal versus the highest quintal um quintal versus the highest quintal um those that were in the highest quintal those that were in the highest quintal protein intake in three different protein intake in three different studies ID almost identical results studies ID almost identical results right right so so yeah so I think that it's really so so yeah so I think that it's really hard to imagine how you know um uh you hard to imagine how you know um uh you could conclude from all of these studies could conclude from all of these studies and we were talking about hundreds and and we were talking about hundreds and hundreds of studies that um a high hundreds of studies that um a high protein diet is good for you I mean it protein diet is good for you I mean it should be sufficient and was sufficient should be sufficient and was sufficient plus muscle training right that's very plus muscle training right that's very important and a lot of studies indicate important and a lot of studies indicate that the protein intake you need per that the protein intake you need per meal is very low it's around 30 grams meal is very low it's around 30 grams per uh training session right if you per uh training session right if you have 30 grams of good quality protein

have 30 grams of good quality protein with enough Lucine and that stimulates with enough Lucine and that stimulates Tor activation you're going to get Tor activation you're going to get maximized effects on muscle building and maximized effects on muscle building and that's probably all I mean and you could that's probably all I mean and you could do say even if you did twice a day you do say even if you did twice a day you still be in you know 60 gram you still still be in you know 60 gram you still be in a relatively normal to low protein be in a relatively normal to low protein diet but beyond that is not toer benefit diet but beyond that is not toer benefit for reasons related to growth factor I for reasons related to growth factor I would presume that that would be offset would presume that that would be offset for somebody who is extremely active for somebody who is extremely active weight you know regardless of age if weight you know regardless of age if they're like in the gym and you know do they're like in the gym and you know do like the negative implications of a like the negative implications of a higher protein diet would would be um higher protein diet would would be um abated by you know that very active abated by you know that very active person yeah not necessarily no no not person yeah not necessarily no no not necessarily no because the growth factor necessarily no because the growth factor it could accelerate or is known to it could accelerate or is known to accelerate the aging process accelerate the aging process independently so so your active independently so so your active lifestyle could certainly help you in lifestyle could certainly help you in other ways live longer but you're still

other ways live longer but you're still if you're accelerating your aging your if you're accelerating your aging your pro-aging Pathways that still can cause pro-aging Pathways that still can cause damage right that is still driving a a a damage right that is still driving a a a faster uh aging rate in all your organs faster uh aging rate in all your organs um yeah and then the exercise helps and um yeah and then the exercise helps and maybe they could cancel out but um maybe they could cancel out but um that's not what you want right you you that's not what you want right you you you want to maximize reduce the Aging you want to maximize reduce the Aging rate and while you know increasing the rate and while you know increasing the functionality you know so we we're about functionality you know so we we're about to publish a couple of papers on there to publish a couple of papers on there uh in M but also using the hardware uh in M but also using the hardware databases and so um yeah I cannot databases and so um yeah I cannot discuss it but certainly it's very discuss it but certainly it's very consistent what I'm saying right the the consistent what I'm saying right the the data is um that you know first of all data is um that you know first of all you need to really understand mechanism you need to really understand mechanism how is each amino acid affecting which how is each amino acid affecting which genes which are affecting what processes genes which are affecting what processes for example we talk about stem cells and for example we talk about stem cells and we talk about reprogramming we see we talk about reprogramming we see protein as the major Blocker of both of

protein as the major Blocker of both of those right Stem Cell Activation or those right Stem Cell Activation or self-renewal and reprogramming the self-renewal and reprogramming the yamanaka factor the reprogramming Factor yamanaka factor the reprogramming Factor it seems like if you want to stop that it seems like if you want to stop that process high protein and it makes sense process high protein and it makes sense right and does it matter if it's animal right and does it matter if it's animal versus plant yes because it's about versus plant yes because it's about amino acids that's why I think amino acids that's why I think eventually I think very soon we should eventually I think very soon we should begin to move away from even using the begin to move away from even using the word protein intake CU it's completely word protein intake CU it's completely irrelevant right because of if it was a irrelevant right because of if it was a 20 30% difference between let's say 20 30% difference between let's say legumes and and red meat you can say legumes and and red meat you can say okay 23% I mean legumes and let's say okay 23% I mean legumes and let's say soy right or legume uh and seeds seeds soy right or legume uh and seeds seeds and nuts right so seeds and nuts uh the and nuts right so seeds and nuts uh the amino acid profile between a seed amino acid profile between a seed protein a nut protein and a legume is protein a nut protein and a legume is huge right then it's even bigger if you huge right then it's even bigger if you got red meat or even white meat right got red meat or even white meat right and it sometimes is is up to 10 fold so and it sometimes is is up to 10 fold so that that's when it's irrelevant because

that that's when it's irrelevant because you could have 100 gram of protein which you could have 100 gram of protein which are providing 10% or 20% of that amino are providing 10% or 20% of that amino acid and that amino acid may be the one acid and that amino acid may be the one that is making the big difference M yeah that is making the big difference M yeah I understand and it's complicated it's I understand and it's complicated it's always more complicated than you think always more complicated than you think it's going to be right yeah but but it it's going to be right yeah but but it doesn't it's not complicated in terms of doesn't it's not complicated in terms of how you implement it right so if you how you implement it right so if you have a mostly plan-based diet you just have a mostly plan-based diet you just need to um and this is what I preach need to um and this is what I preach let's say that you're a vegan then you let's say that you're a vegan then you should mix about a third a third a third should mix about a third a third a third plant I mean legumes seeds and nuts plant I mean legumes seeds and nuts right if you have that then you're good right if you have that then you're good to go right so you know practically it's to go right so you know practically it's very simple right but if you only have very simple right but if you only have legumes um and you have already so if legumes um and you have already so if you have a low protein intake and then you have a low protein intake and then it's all legumes you're going to have a it's all legumes you're going to have a problem right uh because you're missing problem right uh because you're missing essential amino acids focusing on one essential amino acids focusing on one thing yeah I mean I think people when I thing yeah I mean I think people when I said complicated I meant like you know

said complicated I meant like you know the sort of physiological Pathways and the sort of physiological Pathways and you know the science of it I mean the you know the science of it I mean the practicalities of it as somebody who's practicalities of it as somebody who's been plant I've been plantbased for a been plant I've been plantbased for a very long time like people think that very long time like people think that it's this complicated timec consuming it's this complicated timec consuming thing but if you're just kind of grazing thing but if you're just kind of grazing on a wide variety of plant Foods it on a wide variety of plant Foods it really takes care of itself like really takes care of itself like Evolution has sort of you know figured Evolution has sort of you know figured it out like I I've just never really had it out like I I've just never really had a problem with this and have been a problem with this and have been confused used by people who seem to kind confused used by people who seem to kind of obsess on protein intake like it's of obsess on protein intake like it's just it's never really been an issue for just it's never really been an issue for me right right but some people let's say me right right but some people let's say you know the okinawans you know you know the okinawans you know historically um and and the southern historically um and and the southern Italians um and maybe this why they were Italians um and maybe this why they were so long liveed right but they were very so long liveed right but they were very frail that's interesting right so if you frail that's interesting right so if you look at Southern Italy uh the same look at Southern Italy uh the same regions that have record longevity regions that have record longevity because they used to have mostly legum because they used to have mostly legum dietes you know yeah the seeds and the dietes you know yeah the seeds and the nuts were there but not in in the type nuts were there but not in in the type of quantities that the so the lagoons

of quantities that the so the lagoons were very much available and and the were very much available and and the rest of it was maybe less available and rest of it was maybe less available and not surprisingly you see a Frailty level not surprisingly you see a Frailty level that is almost twice as high as nor that is almost twice as high as nor Central and Northern Europe right so a Central and Northern Europe right so a lot of the Mediterranean countries um lot of the Mediterranean countries um are very frea uh long lived by frao so are very frea uh long lived by frao so so I think that you know in your case so I think that you know in your case you probably had you know the the muscle you probably had you know the the muscle training and all of that and enough you training and all of that and enough you know variety but to a lot of people you know variety but to a lot of people you know it could become a problem right so know it could become a problem right so so if you you know say five times a week so if you you know say five times a week your proteins are all coming from your proteins are all coming from legumes yeah uh then um you know they legumes yeah uh then um you know they might not be so easy to if it's slow might not be so easy to if it's slow protein and mostly from legumes uh then protein and mostly from legumes uh then it might be difficult to keep the muscle it might be difficult to keep the muscle mass as we enter 2025 we each have mass as we enter 2025 we each have 365 blank pages waiting to be filled so 365 blank pages waiting to be filled so maybe you're ready for a plot twist or maybe you're ready for a plot twist or perhaps there's a chapter of your life

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newsl are you familiar uh with this guy Brian Johnson yes and his blueprint Brian Johnson yes and his blueprint protocol you I mean I don't know I mean protocol you I mean I don't know I mean I don't know the blueprint protocol I I don't know the blueprint protocol I know the the 100 you know supplements know the the 100 you know supplements and all that lots of supplements you and all that lots of supplements you know basically you know putting a lot of know basically you know putting a lot of time and resources and energy into you time and resources and energy into you know trying to crack wide open this know trying to crack wide open this anti-aging equation but part of it anti-aging equation but part of it entails his diet which is a entirely entails his diet which is a entirely plant-based diet uh limited to 2,250 plant-based diet uh limited to 2,250 calories I think something like that calories I think something like that it's very dialed in his last meal of the it's very dialed in his last meal of the day is at 11:00 a.m. so this is a day is at 11:00 a.m. so this is a fasting protocol I think he goes to bed fasting protocol I think he goes to bed around 8:30 or 99 at night he eats you around 8:30 or 99 at night he eats you know within I don't know 30 minutes of know within I don't know 30 minutes of waking up in the morning probably around waking up in the morning probably around 6:00 a.m. or something like that uh and 6:00 a.m. or something like that uh and I think he has three meals throughout I think he has three meals throughout the day small meals have you looked at the day small meals have you looked at this do you have thoughts on kind of

this do you have thoughts on kind of what he's doing here all those what he's doing here all those biomarkers seem to be fantastic yeah biomarkers seem to be fantastic yeah yeah well yeah well um the shortterm effects um uh may be um the shortterm effects um uh may be completely irrelevant compared to the completely irrelevant compared to the long-term effects right so so a good long-term effects right so so a good example is let's say the breakfast example is let's say the breakfast Keepers right the breakfast Keepers um Keepers right the breakfast Keepers um you know if you look at shortterm they you know if you look at shortterm they may be actually very beneficial right may be actually very beneficial right and uh and now people argue that the and uh and now people argue that the breakfast keeper have a worse lifestyle breakfast keeper have a worse lifestyle and all that but but but let's say that and all that but but but let's say that that you know new clinical data suggest that you know new clinical data suggest that it's not just it's not that right that it's not just it's not that right if you start you know eating later if you start you know eating later you're going to have problems but it may you're going to have problems but it may be difficult to see what's going to be difficult to see what's going to happen 20 years later right and you're happen 20 years later right and you're going to get surprised uh and the going to get surprised uh and the ketogenic diet it could be another ketogenic diet it could be another example right so if you look at the example right so if you look at the ketogenic they very beneficial very ketogenic they very beneficial very makes you you know impressive results makes you you know impressive results but in the long run people on a low carb but in the long run people on a low carb diet and there's lots of harvor studies

diet and there's lots of harvor studies uh they live shorter or much shorter uh they live shorter or much shorter much higher much higher mortality especially if it's low carb mortality especially if it's low carb mostly animal based diet right so yeah mostly animal based diet right so yeah so I would say that um when you enter a so I would say that um when you enter a lot of territories the 100 supplements lot of territories the 100 supplements and eating within three hour window each and eating within three hour window each one of them is a a a gamble is a big one of them is a a a gamble is a big gamble right and then if you put four gamble right and then if you put four five together now it's a very bad gamble five together now it's a very bad gamble right so you're you're exiting the right so you're you're exiting the territory of the five pillars in territory of the five pillars in multiple ways right so the centenarians multiple ways right so the centenarians eat you know in four hours and no is eat you know in four hours and no is there any data from mice yes there is there any data from mice yes there is some data from nice that show that some data from nice that show that that's beneficial or potentially eating that's beneficial or potentially eating within a a smaller window is beneficial within a a smaller window is beneficial so you have mixed data in in lots of so you have mixed data in in lots of things uh that that he's doing but a lot things uh that that he's doing but a lot of it I think is going to be negative of it I think is going to be negative right so it's going to be or not not right so it's going to be or not not done before right so could it be

done before right so could it be positive yes um but uh it could also be positive yes um but uh it could also be negative or very negative and so the negative or very negative and so the surprise could come after you know 25 surprise could come after you know 25 years and it could be a big surprise years and it could be a big surprise right it could be a big surprise that right it could be a big surprise that now that is causing a a a big problem if now that is causing a a a big problem if people don't realize you you just need people don't realize you you just need like for example ketogenic diet well like for example ketogenic diet well everybody talks about the ketogenic diet everybody talks about the ketogenic diet and and cancer is a positive thing and and and cancer is a positive thing and it can be right and there's a lot of it can be right and there's a lot of animal studies now some clinical trials animal studies now some clinical trials that are suggesting this is also in my that are suggesting this is also in my book that are suggesting that the book that are suggesting that the ketogen can be beneficial but people ketogen can be beneficial but people don't talk about the cancers that are don't talk about the cancers that are fed by Ketone bodies right there's some fed by Ketone bodies right there's some cancers they grow much faster uh and cancers they grow much faster uh and there are some cancers whose um there are some cancers whose um incidence goes up tenfold in a in people incidence goes up tenfold in a in people that have a high Ketone body level right that have a high Ketone body level right so yeah so so yeah so then very healthy short term not so then very healthy short term not so healthy for lifespan and healthy for lifespan and now associated with a much higher level now associated with a much higher level of certain cancers right so this could

of certain cancers right so this could be the surprise right now all of a be the surprise right now all of a sudden whatever you're doing that is not sudden whatever you're doing that is not you know within the the the domains of you know within the the the domains of what's been tested for 100 years and all what's been tested for 100 years and all you need is one of let say 100 you need is one of let say 100 supplements or even or 10 supplements supplements or even or 10 supplements people don't realize I just looked it up people don't realize I just looked it up the other day and and in Italy uh drugs the other day and and in Italy uh drugs just in Italy drugs kill about 40,000 just in Italy drugs kill about 40,000 people every year drugs right drug drug people every year drugs right drug drug interaction not not like recreational interaction not not like recreational drug use prescri drug drug prescription drug use prescri drug drug prescription drugs prescription drugs is 40,000 drugs prescription drugs is 40,000 people a year uh and in the US it's a people a year uh and in the US it's a huge number I don't remember I just huge number I don't remember I just looked up the Italian number for some looked up the Italian number for some reason and not the us but it's a huge reason and not the us but it's a huge number right so you combine lots of number right so you combine lots of drugs they start interacting in ways drugs they start interacting in ways that you cannot predict and so now if that you cannot predict and so now if you take 10 supplements 20 supplements you take 10 supplements 20 supplements 30 supplements the the higher the number 30 supplements the the higher the number the more certainty almost certainty that the more certainty almost certainty that it's going to cause a problem it might it's going to cause a problem it might take away one year 5 years 10 years but

take away one year 5 years 10 years but sooner or later that's uh that's going sooner or later that's uh that's going to cause a problem for every additional to cause a problem for every additional supplement that you add into your supplement that you add into your routine uh the complexity of how all of routine uh the complexity of how all of these things are interacting with each these things are interacting with each other you know kind of uh you know other you know kind of uh you know increases exponentially basically is increases exponentially basically is what you're saying and we don't know what you're saying and we don't know even AI wouldn't be able to handle it even AI wouldn't be able to handle it for the for at least 20 to 30 years yeah for the for at least 20 to 30 years yeah they so complex that you would need 20 they so complex that you would need 20 or 30 years of data fed into AI to say or 30 years of data fed into AI to say okay this now the only AI understands okay this now the only AI understands that maybe that's going to cause a that maybe that's going to cause a problem but yeah so so right now we're problem but yeah so so right now we're very far away being able to handle very far away being able to handle because you need big data right so how because you need big data right so how is the you know the selenium that you're is the you know the selenium that you're taking interacting with the you know taking interacting with the you know kind of the uh mega dosing of vitamin D kind of the uh mega dosing of vitamin D for example or something like that yeah for example or something like that yeah and because then the two are going to and because then the two are going to change the host metabolism or the host change the host metabolism or the host response and now the new host response

response and now the new host response so it's not just how the two interact so it's not just how the two interact it's how the two change the body and now it's how the two change the body and now the two plus the body change affect the the two plus the body change affect the third one that you're going to add right third one that you're going to add right and or react so all of a sudden let's and or react so all of a sudden let's say your your fertin goes up right and say your your fertin goes up right and now if you have a high fertin and now now if you have a high fertin and now you add some other supplement now you you add some other supplement now you have a recipe for disaster maybe iron have a recipe for disaster maybe iron overload because now you just have added overload because now you just have added the third supplement that is is making the third supplement that is is making the the fting work less well right for the the fting work less well right for example I see you know if you were example I see you know if you were counsel to Brian Johnson you know what counsel to Brian Johnson you know what would your what would your advice be I would your what would your advice be I mean I I know I'm setting you up a mean I I know I'm setting you up a little bit because you you would have to little bit because you you would have to know everything that he's doing but um know everything that he's doing but um kind of from a bird's eye view General kind of from a bird's eye view General principle uh perspective well I mean of principle uh perspective well I mean of course I mean the only thing that I will course I mean the only thing that I will add to all the things that we discussed add to all the things that we discussed before so Tim rest the eating the before so Tim rest the eating the fasting making diet the longevity diet I fasting making diet the longevity diet I add personalization right so you will add personalization right so you will want to know everything about him and want to know everything about him and personalize all of it to to um him I

personalize all of it to to um him I think he would say that he he probably think he would say that he he probably has that dialed in like I think he has that dialed in like I think he experimented with lots of different experimented with lots of different eating stuff with with a with a big team eating stuff with with a with a big team of people who are weighing and and of people who are weighing and and taking his blooders like every day if taking his blooders like every day if that was the case he wouldn't be eating that was the case he wouldn't be eating in three or four hour window right I in three or four hour window right I think he's underestimating the think he's underestimating the uncertainty uh of of doing something uncertainty uh of of doing something that nobody's ever done before right if that nobody's ever done before right if you just think about the short-term you just think about the short-term effects um and this is the effects um and this is the overestimation everybody's making you overestimation everybody's making you have Diagnostics and you think that have Diagnostics and you think that because uh you know so I had big experts because uh you know so I had big experts in the field tell me you know I have in the field tell me you know I have extremely low fat you know like 5% fat extremely low fat you know like 5% fat well you well you know data suggest that if you have a know data suggest that if you have a little bit higher fat levels you may little bit higher fat levels you may live longer right so short term you live longer right so short term you could say you you know I have 5% fat I'm could say you you know I have 5% fat I'm going to live forever but the data is going to live forever but the data is actually showing that those that live actually showing that those that live forever may be more in the BMI 25 range

forever may be more in the BMI 25 range right yeah so then that's this acute right yeah so then that's this acute response and this idea that you know if response and this idea that you know if you have a very low fat that makes you you have a very low fat that makes you very healthy is misguided right because very healthy is misguided right because that's not the case if you're trying to that's not the case if you're trying to be get to 110 healthy and I don't mean be get to 110 healthy and I don't mean just 110 FR like the southern Italians just 110 FR like the southern Italians or maybe the yans I mean 110 healthy so or maybe the yans I mean 110 healthy so then you know you have to have the the then you know you have to have the the Five Pillars or or more than five Five Pillars or or more than five pillars and those speak very very pillars and those speak very very clearly right and and uh yeah so then on clearly right and and uh yeah so then on top of the Five Pillars then you need top of the Five Pillars then you need the Diagnostics right then you need to the Diagnostics right then you need to say okay I'm using the five pillars I say okay I'm using the five pillars I came up with all these things and now my came up with all these things and now my cholesterol is still very high right cholesterol is still very high right well okay that's not enough then we need well okay that's not enough then we need to intervene and make sure that to intervene and make sure that cholesterol goes back to to normal and cholesterol goes back to to normal and so yeah so I would say that again if you so yeah so I would say that again if you look at the longevity records it comes look at the longevity records it comes from mutations that do lots of weird from mutations that do lots of weird things like gror receptor knock out

things like gror receptor knock out right it make mice and people very short right it make mice and people very short right so it's very counterintuitive right so it's very counterintuitive let's say because a lot of people inject let's say because a lot of people inject themselves with testosterone or growth themselves with testosterone or growth hormone to live longer and yet clearly hormone to live longer and yet clearly after 100 Years of research high growth after 100 Years of research high growth hormone is making mice and probably hormone is making mice and probably people uh live the shortest them right people uh live the shortest them right speaking of of people who are short I speaking of of people who are short I came across that CNN article about Len came across that CNN article about Len syndrome and people who are genetically syndrome and people who are genetically very small like 4 feet and under who very small like 4 feet and under who really don't get lifestyle disease or really don't get lifestyle disease or cancer or heart disease as readily as we cancer or heart disease as readily as we do and I know you've done some work with do and I know you've done some work with this community right yeah so this is this community right yeah so this is what I was just talking about right so what I was just talking about right so the growth orone the little people that the growth orone the little people that you're referring to have a mutation in you're referring to have a mutation in the growth hormone receptor right right the growth hormone receptor right right so this is why I was saying people are so this is why I was saying people are now a lot millions of people around the now a lot millions of people around the world are using growmon injections to

world are using growmon injections to become younger right and so if you look become younger right and so if you look at them uh short term you probably at them uh short term you probably conclude that they are younger uh or conclude that they are younger uh or they're functioning better let's say they're functioning better let's say right and so but The Mouse and the human right and so but The Mouse and the human data suggest exactly the opposite right data suggest exactly the opposite right so the little people uh it's like if you so the little people uh it's like if you inject them with growth hormone they'll inject them with growth hormone they'll have absolutely no effect have absolutely no effect receptors don't they're missing the receptors don't they're missing the recept you have the key but you don't recept you have the key but you don't have the keyhole so worthless key right have the keyhole so worthless key right and and so those mice and people that and and so those mice and people that have the a blockade in the gron pathway have the a blockade in the gron pathway are the one that by far are doing the are the one that by far are doing the best right by far I mean if you look at best right by far I mean if you look at you know mice there is nothing that even you know mice there is nothing that even comes close to this growth hormone and comes close to this growth hormone and growth hormone receptor and that's nice growth hormone receptor and that's nice because it can be that the mice are because it can be that the mice are lacking growth hormone or lacking the lacking growth hormone or lacking the gral receptor either way they have gral receptor either way they have record longevity record health and and record longevity record health and and this has been shown you know we work

this has been shown you know we work with this mypa lots of Laboratories so with this mypa lots of Laboratories so there's really no doubt about it right there's really no doubt about it right so yeah so that's why this genetics uh so yeah so that's why this genetics uh data is so important and it's part of data is so important and it's part of the you know I I I put it in the the you know I I I put it in the Centenary and you know the people that Centenary and you know the people that have lived with that change for 100 have lived with that change for 100 years right so now we have the data both years right so now we have the data both for the lons but also for for the for the lons but also for for the okinawans and for the for the okinawans and for the for the centenarians of of southern Italy or centenarians of of southern Italy or lalinda so your research and your latest lalinda so your research and your latest book fasting cancer uh appear to book fasting cancer uh appear to support the thesis that the fasting support the thesis that the fasting mimicking diet in conjunction with mimicking diet in conjunction with traditional uh treatments for cancer traditional uh treatments for cancer seem to have a beneficial impact in seem to have a beneficial impact in terms of recovery and remission rates in terms of recovery and remission rates in general right within the context of a general right within the context of a very complicated field I mean

very complicated field I mean differently from diabetes cancer is differently from diabetes cancer is really 100 different diseases you know really 100 different diseases you know maybe a thousand different treatments maybe a thousand different treatments right so so I would say that in right so so I would say that in general um especially for those that general um especially for those that have advanced stage cancer say stage have advanced stage cancer say stage three stage four the the ones that are three stage four the the ones that are in trouble a lots of the clinical in trouble a lots of the clinical studies are now showing that uh it seems studies are now showing that uh it seems to have a big effect fact right making to have a big effect fact right making the whatever especially chemotherapy the whatever especially chemotherapy does far better right so um one of the does far better right so um one of the nicest ones that I mention in the book nicest ones that I mention in the book is the triple negative breast cancer is the triple negative breast cancer very aggressive women with metastatic very aggressive women with metastatic cancer the fast making diet now is cancer the fast making diet now is nearly doubling uh overall survival in nearly doubling uh overall survival in the first study by verer and colleagues the first study by verer and colleagues and then they just publish a follow-up and then they just publish a follow-up paper which is not in the book uh paper which is not in the book uh showing either uh chemotherapy alone showing either uh chemotherapy alone chemotherapy plus fasting making diet or chemotherapy plus fasting making diet or chemotherapy plus fasting making diet chemotherapy plus fasting making diet plus metformin and and again nearly a

plus metformin and and again nearly a doubling compared to the the the doubling compared to the the the expected survival of what's called PCR expected survival of what's called PCR complete pathologic response these are complete pathologic response these are just a few trials but there's lots of just a few trials but there's lots of them um that are indicating that the them um that are indicating that the fasting making diet is uh um you know fasting making diet is uh um you know making survival better making also the making survival better making also the the pathological response better right the pathological response better right so if you look look at the masses the so if you look look at the masses the cancer masses after the treatment they cancer masses after the treatment they seem to have less active cancer cells seem to have less active cancer cells now you know there's also an argument now you know there's also an argument and this is why we say be careful as I and this is why we say be careful as I mentioned earlier like you know if you mentioned earlier like you know if you misuse it let's say you say oh fasting misuse it let's say you say oh fasting all fasting is good and so I'm going to all fasting is good and so I'm going to get chemo and then I'm going to refeed get chemo and then I'm going to refeed at the same time that could cause at the same time that could cause problems and a solution and the other problems and a solution and the other thing is you know um fasting mimicking thing is you know um fasting mimicking diet has a very powerful effect a diet has a very powerful effect a powerful effect on stem cells and so you powerful effect on stem cells and so you know we've looked at cancer stem cells know we've looked at cancer stem cells and we shown that in breast cancer it

and we shown that in breast cancer it reduces cancer stem cells but others reduces cancer stem cells but others have indicated that in some cases it have indicated that in some cases it could increase cancer stem cells right could increase cancer stem cells right so in the early stages of the disease so in the early stages of the disease right so we don't know enough about it right so we don't know enough about it we really haven't seen that but uh I we really haven't seen that but uh I would say if it's early stage um and the would say if it's early stage um and the treatment is likely to be very effective treatment is likely to be very effective uh stick with the just a treatment and uh stick with the just a treatment and and don't don't try anything else maybe and don't don't try anything else maybe the longevity diet maybe the the 12-hour the longevity diet maybe the the 12-hour timer the eating and this is what we do timer the eating and this is what we do in the in the um in the clinics uh we in the in the um in the clinics uh we say if it's early stage and you have a say if it's early stage and you have a 98% chance of of being cured by it um 98% chance of of being cured by it um just leave it alone and now you know it just leave it alone and now you know it could be that it will have helped you a could be that it will have helped you a lot even in those early stages but it lot even in those early stages but it could be that there's something that we could be that there's something that we don't know yet and and and so I know don't know yet and and and so I know people think we're paranoid but but but people think we're paranoid but but but I think it's a good way to to look at I think it's a good way to to look at and and unfortunately a lot of lot of and and unfortunately a lot of lot of people don't look at it that way so people don't look at it that way so essentially it's going to be uh case

essentially it's going to be uh case dependent uh depending upon what type of dependent uh depending upon what type of cancer and how advanced that cancer is cancer and how advanced that cancer is more advanced Cancers and certain types more advanced Cancers and certain types of cancers uh seem to indicate that of cancers uh seem to indicate that traditional therapy I.E chemotherapy in traditional therapy I.E chemotherapy in conjunction with a fasting mimicking conjunction with a fasting mimicking diet seems to have a beneficial effect diet seems to have a beneficial effect that that um outweighs chemotherapy um outweighs chemotherapy alone well I mean if you look at the alone well I mean if you look at the animal studies right then it's just animal studies right then it's just overwhelming with all kinds of cancer overwhelming with all kinds of cancer you know colorl uh lung and breast and you know colorl uh lung and breast and name it right then fasting mimicking name it right then fasting mimicking diet plus chemo immunotherapy hormone diet plus chemo immunotherapy hormone therapy KES inhibitor I mean just therapy KES inhibitor I mean just phenomenal effects right and I mean phenomenal effects right and I mean turning cancers that are clearly so we turning cancers that are clearly so we publish a paper a few years ago um they publish a paper a few years ago um they showing hormone therapy for example showing hormone therapy for example right hormone therapy so Palos F this is

right hormone therapy so Palos F this is in mice right and we also had the in mice right and we also had the clinical trial but but but in mice is clinical trial but but but in mice is very conclusive use the standard of care very conclusive use the standard of care Palos clip and and f v Strand and the Palos clip and and f v Strand and the tumor is kept in check just like it is tumor is kept in check just like it is in people for a while and then it starts in people for a while and then it starts adapting and it starts growing right you adapting and it starts growing right you had the FAS making di cycles and now you had the FAS making di cycles and now you see the tumor going the opposite see the tumor going the opposite direction until it goes to zero right so direction until it goes to zero right so so it's just over and over and say the so it's just over and over and say the animal data is remarkable and really animal data is remarkable and really almost surprisingly and it's not just my almost surprisingly and it's not just my data it's now a lot of labs that are data it's now a lot of labs that are that are looking at it's just REM for that are looking at it's just REM for example in mice we published two papers example in mice we published two papers and some Spanish groups have done the and some Spanish groups have done the same a immunotherapy mice does almost in same a immunotherapy mice does almost in some of these models for like say breast some of these models for like say breast cancer and and even melanoma does very cancer and and even melanoma does very little and the fasting mimicking diet little and the fasting mimicking diet alone does more than immunotherapy right alone does more than immunotherapy right so so I was say the potential is huge in so so I was say the potential is huge in in all the different Cancers and in all in all the different Cancers and in all the different stages but because there

the different stages but because there is a system and the system should be is a system and the system should be respected and we don't know yet we respected and we don't know yet we haven't tested it for a lot of in haven't tested it for a lot of in clinically we haven't tested M we tested clinically we haven't tested M we tested it but not clinically you know that it but not clinically you know that needs to be done before somebody and needs to be done before somebody and this is why my comment about definitely this is why my comment about definitely if you're stage four and and it's if you're stage four and and it's nothing else is working yes go for it nothing else is working yes go for it right because the animal data is right because the animal data is phenomenal phenomenal uh but if you're stage one and you uh but if you're stage one and you already know that you know what been already know that you know what been what's been done for 20 years is working what's been done for 20 years is working very well then I don't think you want to very well then I don't think you want to take your take a chance right stick with take your take a chance right stick with the standard of care and then God forbid the standard of care and then God forbid you get to the next level then yes then you get to the next level then yes then then consider it yeah I think that then consider it yeah I think that you're very you know kind of circumspect you're very you know kind of circumspect in the way that you you talk about uh in in the way that you you talk about uh in the way that you just did you know the way that you just did you know throughout the book like Hey listen this throughout the book like Hey listen this I'm not like here to tell you like I'm not like here to tell you like there's this is some Panacea right like there's this is some Panacea right like here's what we're seeing right now here's what we're seeing right now here's what I'd like to see here's some

here's what I'd like to see here's some research that still needs to get done research that still needs to get done I'm not telling you to not you know I'm not telling you to not you know pursue every traditional therapeutic pursue every traditional therapeutic modality there is I'm just saying you modality there is I'm just saying you know in my lab and in other people's know in my lab and in other people's research this is what we're seeing right research this is what we're seeing right now there's something interesting now there's something interesting Happening Here I think it's worth Happening Here I think it's worth pursuing and investigating you know more pursuing and investigating you know more thoroughly right right but in some cases thoroughly right right but in some cases the clinical trial like for triple the clinical trial like for triple negative breast cancer right and even negative breast cancer right and even for hormone therapy I mean for triple for hormone therapy I mean for triple negative breast cancer you're starting negative breast cancer you're starting to see randomized trials showing a big to see randomized trials showing a big difference right from what you expect or difference right from what you expect or from what the the the control arm has from what the the the control arm has right so and this is impatience so yeah right so and this is impatience so yeah for for those I would say probably talk for for those I would say probably talk to your oncologist and say hey what to your oncologist and say hey what about these three or four about these three or four papers um you know it's looking good how papers um you know it's looking good how up to speed are the oncologists you know up to speed are the oncologists you know in this in this field some are up to in this in this field some are up to speed and a lot of them are not right so speed and a lot of them are not right so so and a lot of them are are are going

so and a lot of them are are are going to wait for an FDA approval which you to wait for an FDA approval which you know may or may not come right so this know may or may not come right so this some of these it's very expensive you some of these it's very expensive you know hundreds of millions of dollars to know hundreds of millions of dollars to get an FDA approval uh the FDA looks at get an FDA approval uh the FDA looks at fasting making that is very complicated fasting making that is very complicated um so we talk to the FDA and to make it um so we talk to the FDA and to make it feasible or or to make it appropriate feasible or or to make it appropriate for the FDA you probably need to you for the FDA you probably need to you know take the 60 ingredients or so in know take the 60 ingredients or so in the fasting making diet and make it into the fasting making diet and make it into six or seven uh which will make it very six or seven uh which will make it very difficult to uh to do and and very difficult to uh to do and and very difficult for the patient right so you difficult for the patient right so you know it it may or may not end up in FDA know it it may or may not end up in FDA approval and so I think the way to go is approval and so I think the way to go is is for the oncologist to be informed and is for the oncologist to be informed and to follow and there it's going to be a to follow and there it's going to be a point where there's going to be enough point where there's going to be enough trials that and there's enough trials that and there's enough standardization of the diet that the standardization of the diet that the oncologist could say hey this has been oncologist could say hey this has been tested in in you know seven or eight tested in in you know seven or eight trials it's very it looks very good and trials it's very it looks very good and and I'm going to recommend it is breast and I'm going to recommend it is breast cancer the form of cancer in which

cancer the form of cancer in which you're seeing the most kind of you're seeing the most kind of optimistic positive optimistic positive indications no no in the animal studies indications no no in the animal studies it's working very well with all kinds of it's working very well with all kinds of cancer in humans though yeah in humans cancer in humans though yeah in humans is breast cancer just being tested a lot is breast cancer just being tested a lot more it's not that we tested the others more it's not that we tested the others and it didn't work it's more that we and it didn't work it's more that we know this disease better well there's know this disease better well there's more um effort uh dedicated clinically more um effort uh dedicated clinically to breast cancer um so you know for to breast cancer um so you know for whatever a number of reasons but there's whatever a number of reasons but there's more studies more more clinicians come more studies more more clinicians come to us and say I would like to do a a a to us and say I would like to do a a a trial on on you know hormone therapy uh trial on on you know hormone therapy uh and and breast cancer or chemotherapy and and breast cancer or chemotherapy and breast cancer or immunotherapy and and breast cancer or immunotherapy and breast cancer but now that we're breast cancer but now that we're starting you know they're starting our starting you know they're starting our trials on chactl cancer we finish one on trials on chactl cancer we finish one on prostate cancer prostate cancer I hopefully we'll we'll have a lot more I hopefully we'll we'll have a lot more but um yeah there just hasn't been in

but um yeah there just hasn't been in that many trials in any that many trials in any other cancer other than breast other cancer other than breast cancer uh there's one randomized study cancer uh there's one randomized study that you talk about in the book with that you talk about in the book with respect of breast cancer 131 patients respect of breast cancer 131 patients showed very promising showed very promising results uh in the context of the fasting results uh in the context of the fasting mimicking diet being kind of woven into mimicking diet being kind of woven into their their treatment protocol 90 to their their treatment protocol 90 to 100% tumor free masses were seen in only 100% tumor free masses were seen in only 8% of patients who completed 8% of patients who completed chemotherapy without any fmd 29% with chemotherapy without any fmd 29% with one cycle of the fasting mimicking diet one cycle of the fasting mimicking diet 33% with three or four cycles and 33% with three or four cycles and 53% with all chemotherapy Cycles 53% with all chemotherapy Cycles combined with a fasting mimicking diet I combined with a fasting mimicking diet I mean that 131 patients not the biggest mean that 131 patients not the biggest population but not insignificant either population but not insignificant either like that's that's a considerable result like that's that's a considerable result yeah yeah and and this is being

yeah yeah and and this is being confirmed by uh the vinary paper that we confirmed by uh the vinary paper that we just published very recently uh in Sal just published very recently uh in Sal metabolism um but I think that I like metabolism um but I think that I like I'm a little worried and you know that I'm a little worried and you know that that's too early because that trial was that's too early because that trial was in women that were to receive the in women that were to receive the surgery so early stage about to receive surgery so early stage about to receive surgery so I think surgery so I think that you know we'll see but it falls that you know we'll see but it falls into the category of too early to try it into the category of too early to try it um until there's more clinical data um until there's more clinical data right but whereas in the metastic right but whereas in the metastic setting where we seeing the same exact setting where we seeing the same exact results with with the the very similar results with with the the very similar to what you just described but now in to what you just described but now in patients that are have metastatic patients that are have metastatic cancer yeah then I think that that's a cancer yeah then I think that that's a very different scenario it's working very different scenario it's working very well and that's where we seeing the very well and that's where we seeing the overall all survival difference uh at overall all survival difference uh at least in the early trials so I'm more least in the early trials so I'm more optimistic and excited about the the

optimistic and excited about the the metastatic one than the early one metastatic one than the early one because the early one in that trial is because the early one in that trial is not enough to make conclusions about uh not enough to make conclusions about uh long-term survival and um and so and long-term survival and um and so and it's very very early before surgery so it's very very early before surgery so yeah I don't know I don't want to make yeah I don't know I don't want to make that category of breast cancer patients that category of breast cancer patients too excited about you oh I I'll do this too excited about you oh I I'll do this because again I'm worried about uh the because again I'm worried about uh the cancer stem cells and and other things cancer stem cells and and other things that could be affected in different ways that could be affected in different ways now yeah I don't have that worry for the now yeah I don't have that worry for the metastatic because uh again it's it's metastatic because uh again it's it's been tested now uh more and uh and we been tested now uh more and uh and we see no no evidence of um and we see the see no no evidence of um and we see the overall survival Improvement and um so overall survival Improvement and um so yeah so I think that definitely a wild yeah so I think that definitely a wild card I would call it that a wild card card I would call it that a wild card for any cancer patient uh you know of for any cancer patient uh you know of course after a discussion with the course after a discussion with the oncologist for any cancer patient that

oncologist for any cancer patient that is in the situation where this is not is in the situation where this is not working right and then the oncologist working right and then the oncologist says you know doesn't look good that's says you know doesn't look good that's it you know two to six months and it you know two to six months and there's not much more not just that me there's not much more not just that me stage four you know three to four years stage four you know three to four years but it's not working very well and and but it's not working very well and and we're concerned right so yeah that's the we're concerned right so yeah that's the the if the oncologist comes back with the if the oncologist comes back with okay this didn't work but we have this okay this didn't work but we have this and this could work extremely well right and this could work extremely well right and and we're very confident okay then and and we're very confident okay then try that but at the PO at the point try that but at the PO at the point where the oncologist comes back and say where the oncologist comes back and say there's really nothing left and yeah you there's really nothing left and yeah you could still live seven or eight years could still live seven or eight years but um we just don't have anything right but um we just don't have anything right now that's when I would uh I would now that's when I would uh I would definitely talk to them and this is what definitely talk to them and this is what the clinic uh the foundation clinics to the clinic uh the foundation clinics to working with the oncologist and saying working with the oncologist and saying okay this is a good time to to give it okay this is a good time to to give it shot right so and see what happens hey shot right so and see what happens hey and the book is full of stories and and and the book is full of stories and and this is why I make sure that I don't I this is why I make sure that I don't I don't make the stories into a a reality

don't make the stories into a a reality and there's people that like you know and there's people that like you know verer published five cases uh of you verer published five cases uh of you know stage four colao lung cancer and in know stage four colao lung cancer and in fact the the the lung cancer um patient fact the the the lung cancer um patient that Maggie Jones I mean that that was that Maggie Jones I mean that that was like the most impactful story in the like the most impactful story in the book I thought no maybe yeah but but book I thought no maybe yeah but but then in the verer I didn't talking about then in the verer I didn't talking about a lot but in the reary study that a lot but in the reary study that published in European I think cancer published in European I think cancer Journal There is five cases and one of Journal There is five cases and one of them is L cancer and the person was a them is L cancer and the person was a friend of the oncologist right a good friend of the oncologist right a good friend of the oncologist and you know friend of the oncologist and you know the oncologist thought yeah there's the oncologist thought yeah there's nothing we can do you know lung cancer nothing we can do you know lung cancer stage four the the person went into stage four the the person went into remission which shocked so much all the remission which shocked so much all the oncologist at the Italian National oncologist at the Italian National Cancer Institute that they publish a Cancer Institute that they publish a paper on this because they say we never paper on this because they say we never seen five patients out of a a single seen five patients out of a a single trial with stage four going to remission trial with stage four going to remission right and and so yeah so they were they right and and so yeah so they were they were so surprised that decided to

were so surprised that decided to publish a paper saying okay we don't publish a paper saying okay we don't know it could be a crazy coincidence but know it could be a crazy coincidence but that's a little strange right that that that's a little strange right that that we're seeing all these essentially you we're seeing all these essentially you know I don't know if I want to call it know I don't know if I want to call it that sentence but certainly you that sentence but certainly you know there's not much hope left right know there's not much hope left right and then you know seeing in one case I and then you know seeing in one case I think it was the colorl the cancer came think it was the colorl the cancer came back after three or four years but there back after three or four years but there was already and then the same treatment was already and then the same treatment and the same result so yeah so I think and the same result so yeah so I think the hope that there is something that the hope that there is something that could make a big difference right that's could make a big difference right that's that's I think what we got right now and that's I think what we got right now and um and you know hopefully we'll have the um and you know hopefully we'll have the demonstration of it in in big clinical demonstration of it in in big clinical sh you know from a mechanistic point of sh you know from a mechanistic point of view the way you describe it in the most view the way you describe it in the most basic sort of lay person manner in order basic sort of lay person manner in order that you know normal people can kind of that you know normal people can kind of understand what you're getting at is understand what you're getting at is that you use this analogy of cancer that you use this analogy of cancer cells as as these sort of food stealing

cells as as these sort of food stealing thieves right the fmd is sort of an thieves right the fmd is sort of an attempt to starve them in other words attempt to starve them in other words like close the grocery stores right that like close the grocery stores right that at the same time don't impact normal at the same time don't impact normal healthy cells uh in the same way they healthy cells uh in the same way they impact cancer cells and through impact cancer cells and through autophagy like they can kind of you know autophagy like they can kind of you know kind of regenerate them regenerate kind of regenerate them regenerate healthy cells is that is that yeah I healthy cells is that is that yeah I think the the normal cells have been think the the normal cells have been trained for three billion years right so trained for three billion years right so they know exactly what to do for they know exactly what to do for bacteria if you starve them they know bacteria if you starve them they know exactly what to do yeast and all exactly what to do yeast and all organisms on Earth most organism on organisms on Earth most organism on Earth by the way are in Starvation are Earth by the way are in Starvation are starving right now right if you look at starving right now right if you look at microorganism so so the normal cells microorganism so so the normal cells they know exactly what to do the cancer they know exactly what to do the cancer cells have evolved with excess food cells have evolved with excess food right they only understand a lot of food right they only understand a lot of food and and they don't understand how to and and they don't understand how to make their own food they understand that make their own food they understand that a gotta get it from the bloodstream a gotta get it from the bloodstream right um so if you just do fasting or right um so if you just do fasting or fasting minking diet they're not happy

fasting minking diet they're not happy you know but it's we see over and over you know but it's we see over and over kind of like a cycle of chemotherapy kind of like a cycle of chemotherapy it's about the equivalent so if you just it's about the equivalent so if you just do fasting making diet Cycles it have do fasting making diet Cycles it have the slowing down effect of of cycles of the slowing down effect of of cycles of chemotherapy but then when you combine chemotherapy but then when you combine it with chemo and we combine it then it with chemo and we combine it then with immunotherapy when you combine it with immunotherapy when you combine it with hormone therapy etc etc that's with hormone therapy etc etc that's where you see you know in a lot of cases where you see you know in a lot of cases we actually can drive the the cancer we actually can drive the the cancer down to to zero or have you know really down to to zero or have you know really stop it you know stop its cross for very stop it you know stop its cross for very very long for a very long time so so I very long for a very long time so so I think yeah the the cancer cells are are think yeah the the cancer cells are are confused and and now we have this confused and and now we have this technology that I talk about in the book technology that I talk about in the book which is we call starvation Escape pway which is we call starvation Escape pway black a right so so basically we use black a right so so basically we use technology to say Okay I I I stve the technology to say Okay I I I stve the system with the fasting making diet but system with the fasting making diet but then I I take the cancer cells and I then I I take the cancer cells and I look at how they rewire using this RNA look at how they rewire using this RNA sick technology right so I can I can

sick technology right so I can I can show I can see very rapidly and show I can see very rapidly and potentially now even using cells from potentially now even using cells from the blood that I just collect and so the blood that I just collect and so hopefully soon we'll we'll do that in hopefully soon we'll we'll do that in people so I can see how they rewired and people so I can see how they rewired and I can use drugs that are available to I can use drugs that are available to block that particular highway right so I block that particular highway right so I know what the highway you're going to know what the highway you're going to take basically and I just block it right take basically and I just block it right and that's really we publish it's got and that's really we publish it's got incredible effects right so so alone incredible effects right so so alone does yeah delays a little bit then we does yeah delays a little bit then we identify the Escape Pathways and we identify the Escape Pathways and we block it and the tumor comes down and block it and the tumor comes down and stays down you know either for a long stays down you know either for a long time or or time or or permanently so what is the message that permanently so what is the message that you're trying to convey in this book you're trying to convey in this book like because there is a sort of caution like because there is a sort of caution like okay don't get too excited you know like okay don't get too excited you know I'm talking about a very you know I'm talking about a very you know specific set of circumstances in which specific set of circumstances in which you know kind of what I understand would you know kind of what I understand would apply so so you know who's the who's the apply so so you know who's the who's the reader for this and and and what is it reader for this and and and what is it that you want people to kind of get from that you want people to kind of get from it yeah well first of all everybody in

it yeah well first of all everybody in the cancer prevention settings right so the cancer prevention settings right so treat aging prevent cancer and that treat aging prevent cancer and that could have remarkable you know whether could have remarkable you know whether it's a fast making diet or the longevity it's a fast making diet or the longevity diet or the time restri the eating or diet or the time restri the eating or the you know all the things that are in the you know all the things that are in there so prevent cancer then if you're there so prevent cancer then if you're unlucky enough and and you get cancer unlucky enough and and you get cancer you know at the beginning you can still you know at the beginning you can still do lots of things like longevity diet do lots of things like longevity diet time rest eating different right so now time rest eating different right so now time rest eating we got a 14 hours from time rest eating we got a 14 hours from from 12 if you if you are a cancer from 12 if you if you are a cancer patient right so we increase it to 14 patient right so we increase it to 14 hours and Longevity diet we have to work hours and Longevity diet we have to work on you know making sure that you don't on you know making sure that you don't lose muscle your immune system doesn't lose muscle your immune system doesn't get weaker and and so that's a everyday get weaker and and so that's a everyday diet then the fasting weing diet is only diet then the fasting weing diet is only I think for patients that need to do it I think for patients that need to do it right so if you're early stage and right so if you're early stage and everything is you know you're having low everything is you know you're having low levels of side effects and everything is levels of side effects and everything is smooth I would say just do the longevity

smooth I would say just do the longevity diet and timer to the eating and do lots diet and timer to the eating and do lots of other things that we talk about in of other things that we talk about in the book but that's it you know if you the book but that's it you know if you are metastatic or the oncologist says are metastatic or the oncologist says nothing is working here even though nothing is working here even though you're not metastatic yes then I think you're not metastatic yes then I think uh I would consider uh the fasting uh I would consider uh the fasting making diet and um and I will talk to making diet and um and I will talk to the oncologist and and see what what he the oncologist and and see what what he or she has to say about using it what is or she has to say about using it what is your sense of the impact that AI is your sense of the impact that AI is having or will soon have on your having or will soon have on your specific field of specific field of study yeah I mean what I just said I study yeah I mean what I just said I think eventually AI will make that think eventually AI will make that process of identifying the escape bway process of identifying the escape bway and drugs very quickly almost immediate and drugs very quickly almost immediate right and I'm not talking about 20 years right and I'm not talking about 20 years I'm talking about two or three years so I'm talking about two or three years so in two or three years I think we can in two or three years I think we can probably if we had enough money now if probably if we had enough money now if the NIH is shut down maybe we won't but the NIH is shut down maybe we won't but I think in two or three years of enough I think in two or three years of enough funding we'll be able to use AI to very

funding we'll be able to use AI to very quickly get to the Escape Pathways you quickly get to the Escape Pathways you know and so then the idea would be I use know and so then the idea would be I use the fmd as a wild card and I use the AI the fmd as a wild card and I use the AI to tell me what the other drugs are and to tell me what the other drugs are and then I use FDA already FDA approved then I use FDA already FDA approved drugs to block it right and so it's a drugs to block it right and so it's a little bit of a of a science fiction little bit of a of a science fiction world you know I call them cancer world you know I call them cancer antibiotics right so yeah so I see that antibiotics right so yeah so I see that uh with enough funding you know in the uh with enough funding you know in the next uh 10 years we might have this this next uh 10 years we might have this this sophistication to say you know kind of sophistication to say you know kind of like you know antibiotic you go to the like you know antibiotic you go to the doctor and and say oh you know you have doctor and and say oh you know you have an infection so we'll give you this an infection so we'll give you this antibiotic let's see if it works so I antibiotic let's see if it works so I think you know and maybe I'm optimistic think you know and maybe I'm optimistic with the time but I think you know with with the time but I think you know with the right finding this could happen in the right finding this could happen in the next 10 years where you know you you the next 10 years where you know you you get your cancer anbi very low toxicity get your cancer anbi very low toxicity kind of like fmd Plus+ plus very low kind of like fmd Plus+ plus very low toxicity drugs that you can just take toxicity drugs that you can just take and let's see if the cancer goes away and let's see if the cancer goes away and uh you know if it doesn't go away and uh you know if it doesn't go away then we'll try something else but uh then we'll try something else but uh yeah I think that's clearly

yeah I think that's clearly theoretically but also using the animal theoretically but also using the animal data this is very close right but yeah data this is very close right but yeah so sometimes it could be very close 3 so sometimes it could be very close 3 years it could be very close 30 years years it could be very close 30 years you know it's hard to know uh but I you know it's hard to know uh but I think you know with the right funding um think you know with the right funding um it could be within 10 years and outside it could be within 10 years and outside of the cancer context are you among the of the cancer context are you among the tech te no optimists in terms of how AI tech te no optimists in terms of how AI is going to uh impact um Health span is going to uh impact um Health span extension in you know a wide variety of extension in you know a wide variety of ways you know kind of beyond your area ways you know kind of beyond your area of expertise specifically yeah I'm very of expertise specifically yeah I'm very scared of AI so so I don't like it at scared of AI so so I don't like it at all well here sorry to interrupt but I all well here sorry to interrupt but I just say one thing I've said this before just say one thing I've said this before on the podcast but like uh you know I've on the podcast but like uh you know I've had you've all know a Harari on the had you've all know a Harari on the podcast and he's you know sounding the podcast and he's you know sounding the alarm about like you know the the sort alarm about like you know the the sort of end of democra systems at large but of end of democra systems at large but we were both at the Google Z conference we were both at the Google Z conference and it's just you know paana all day

and it's just you know paana all day long in terms of like how amazing it's long in terms of like how amazing it's going to be yeah yeah very scary right going to be yeah yeah very scary right very scary um yeah I you know I think to very scary um yeah I you know I think to see how scary it is you have to look at see how scary it is you have to look at Evolution right systems evolve right and Evolution right systems evolve right and and it doesn't really matter whether and it doesn't really matter whether that system happens to be you know a that system happens to be you know a derived from single cells or from a derived from single cells or from a prammer that's a scary part that I think prammer that's a scary part that I think everybody's is underestimating you know everybody's is underestimating you know if if every system can evolve it can if if every system can evolve it can find its way right and uh and so um find its way right and uh and so um that's a scary part and now for the that's a scary part and now for the first time ever uh we have a system that first time ever uh we have a system that evolves and is based on um you know a evolves and is based on um you know a program and they can learn and and and program and they can learn and and and and eventually you know where can it end and eventually you know where can it end up right so that's that's what sets a up right so that's that's what sets a stage for it's just a matter of time stage for it's just a matter of time before it's going to evolve right and um before it's going to evolve right and um it's going to find its way and the it's going to find its way and the question is what way is it going to find

question is what way is it going to find uh well if you look at the past right uh well if you look at the past right and and you know dinosaurs and and all and and you know dinosaurs and and all kinds of organism um you know you you kinds of organism um you know you you can see that you know some of the can see that you know some of the evolution could end up um in the in the evolution could end up um in the in the wrong place for for Humanity right in as wrong place for for Humanity right in as a is a antagonist um so yeah that's what a is a antagonist um so yeah that's what I'm worried about of course I I agree I'm worried about of course I I agree with all the benefits you know I just with all the benefits you know I just talked about one um but but it's not talked about one um but but it's not something that we couldn't do something that we couldn't do computationally anyways right so so I computationally anyways right so so I think that I mean I don't know maybe think that I mean I don't know maybe there's there's nothing we can do right there's there's nothing we can do right that we cannot block AI so so I think we that we cannot block AI so so I think we could regulate right and and and begin could regulate right and and and begin regulated you know in a in a planet-wide regulated you know in a in a planet-wide manner um so that's probably the thing manner um so that's probably the thing that we need to do very quickly that that we need to do very quickly that that would be my my suggestion as that would be my my suggestion as somebody that that you know works on somebody that that you know works on evolutionary biology we need to use its evolutionary biology we need to use its power but also um understand its power power but also um understand its power and regulate it as soon as possible and

and regulate it as soon as possible and I don't really see any any because I don't really see any any because everybody's thinking about making money everybody's thinking about making money using it right this is really using it right this is really entertaining right that that um you know entertaining right that that um you know imagine generating a dinosaur and imagine generating a dinosaur and thinking about how much money you're thinking about how much money you're going to make in Jurassic Park right and going to make in Jurassic Park right and well this is happening The Woolly well this is happening The Woolly Mammoth is underway that company just Mammoth is underway that company just rais like I some crazy amount of money rais like I some crazy amount of money and like it's going to that's what that and like it's going to that's what that is what is happening yeah yep we have is what is happening yeah yep we have more problems than AI then I guess but U more problems than AI then I guess but U yeah so I think that we uh I don't yeah so I think that we uh I don't understand I mean maybe it's just understand I mean maybe it's just obsession with making money uh that is obsession with making money uh that is driving uh this irrational driving uh this irrational exuberance that has very little worst exuberance that has very little worst case scenarios right you know what's the case scenarios right you know what's the worst case scenario well if the worst worst case scenario well if the worst case scenario case scenario is really bad for for human beings then is really bad for for human beings then um probably probably not a good idea to um probably probably not a good idea to to not regulate it right so we talk

to not regulate it right so we talk about regulating it but not really you about regulating it but not really you know I mean I think there are a lot of know I mean I think there are a lot of smart people who are who are thinking smart people who are who are thinking deeply about this but the momentum deeply about this but the momentum behind this just moving forward is too behind this just moving forward is too great at this point and I think yes like great at this point and I think yes like money is Central to the whole thing but money is Central to the whole thing but I think beyond that it sort of just I think beyond that it sort of just speaks to the ingrained nature of the speaks to the ingrained nature of the human animal like you know we're nothing human animal like you know we're nothing if not a creature that is just going to if not a creature that is just going to keep doing the thing and we'll like deal keep doing the thing and we'll like deal with the circumstances in the aftermath with the circumstances in the aftermath and yeah we'll give lip service well we and yeah we'll give lip service well we we better be careful but we're we're we better be careful but we're we're we're bowling forward no matter what and we're bowling forward no matter what and that's what I see happening and I think that's what I see happening and I think in the short term like certainly there's in the short term like certainly there's incredible implications that you know incredible implications that you know for this that are going to benefit for this that are going to benefit humankind specifically in in you know humankind specifically in in you know the healthcare context I think these the healthcare context I think these tools are going to be remarkable in tools are going to be remarkable in terms of identifying diseases at the terms of identifying diseases at the earliest stages and figuring out ways to

earliest stages and figuring out ways to circumvent them and cure them and circumvent them and cure them and prevent them all of that I think you prevent them all of that I think you know is something to celebrate but there know is something to celebrate but there is the kind of larger looming is the kind of larger looming existential you know questions that are existential you know questions that are a little bit you know harder to kind of a little bit you know harder to kind of grapple with and determine Solutions but grapple with and determine Solutions but I think we lack the adequate humility to I think we lack the adequate humility to really respect really respect um the gravity of what we're doing and I um the gravity of what we're doing and I I think we think we might know what the I think we think we might know what the implications are but I don't think we implications are but I don't think we really do at all yeah and I mean if you really do at all yeah and I mean if you look at nuclear power right so some of look at nuclear power right so some of the same arguments were made and right the same arguments were made and right now we're in a situation that we now we're in a situation that we probably rather not be in right somebody probably rather not be in right somebody goes crazy it just wipes out the entire goes crazy it just wipes out the entire planet so so this is much worse right I planet so so this is much worse right I mean compared to the AI I think the the mean compared to the AI I think the the the danger of nuclear power is is um is the danger of nuclear power is is um is very small right that's why it's very small right that's why it's particularly surprising that we don't particularly surprising that we don't see it for how powerful it can be and it

see it for how powerful it can be and it will be I mean it's not it can be it will be I mean it's not it can be it will be what happens then right so I will be what happens then right so I don't know if we went back and and you don't know if we went back and and you know in the in the uh nuclear science um know in the in the uh nuclear science um we had made the same choices if we had a we had made the same choices if we had a choice at some point back in the past choice at some point back in the past right I mean I don't know right now that right I mean I don't know right now that you know everybody would like to be be you know everybody would like to be be in a world where everything could be in a world where everything could be wiped up by just a an event that goes in wiped up by just a an event that goes in the in the wrong direction right the in the wrong direction right so yeah so there's a lot of benefits um so yeah so there's a lot of benefits um but maybe maybe it wasn't worth the but maybe maybe it wasn't worth the having those benefits available to us having those benefits available to us considering where we are right now um considering where we are right now um yeah so in AI I think it's uh it takes yeah so in AI I think it's uh it takes it to another level well we're going to it to another level well we're going to find out and since you're on a track to find out and since you're on a track to living between 120 and 130 years uh living between 120 and 130 years uh hopefully we have it figured out so that hopefully we have it figured out so that you can live a long and fruitful life you can live a long and fruitful life and you you're going to have a baby soon

and you you're going to have a baby soon yeah yeah yeah you're probably thinking yeah yeah yeah you're probably thinking about things more philosophically yeah about things more philosophically yeah that's that's what makes me worri right that's that's what makes me worri right so yeah yeah well uh I appreciate the so yeah yeah well uh I appreciate the work that you do um it's a service to to work that you do um it's a service to to humanity and I just want to acknowledge humanity and I just want to acknowledge you know you for for that service and you know you for for that service and appreciate you coming here and sharing appreciate you coming here and sharing with us and you're always welcome here with us and you're always welcome here the new book is fasting cancer and if the new book is fasting cancer and if people want to learn more about your people want to learn more about your work specifically fter where should they work specifically fter where should they go in addition to checking out Instagram go in addition to checking out Instagram I think Professor wter Longo uh on I think Professor wter Longo uh on Instagram and also the Crea cures Instagram and also the Crea cures Foundation um that's um you know create Foundation um that's um you know create your.org I think yeah excellent thank your.org I think yeah excellent thank you thanks a lot Rich great talking you thanks a lot Rich great talking cheers cheers [Music] peace that's it for today thank you for listening I truly hope you enjoyed the listening I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's conversation to learn more about today's guest including links and resources guest including links and resources related to everything discussed today

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Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.

The Safer Fasting Window

Longo favors a 12-hour fast paired with a 12-hour eating window. It is direct, modest, and broadly defensible. In practice, that could mean finishing dinner by 8 p.m. and waiting until 8 a.m. to eat again. The structure is simple enough to remember and restrained enough to repeat.

He presents this 12-hour rhythm as the safer daily choice because more aggressive windows still carry unanswered questions. The 16-hour fast has become culturally visible, especially when breakfast disappears from the day. Longo notes that concerns connected to skipping breakfast may not belong only to breakfast itself; the longer fast may be part of the issue. That distinction deserves patience.

A 12-hour fast does not need drama to be effective. Longo describes it as easy and safe, a compromise that few physicians would reject. It is less forceful than a 16-hour fast, but it still creates a meaningful boundary around intake. For most people, that boundary is the beginning of discipline.

I think it's a good compromise, and I think something that everybody should do.

The need for structure becomes clear when we look at how long people tend to eat without it. Longo points to work showing that many people eat across roughly 15 hours a day. That is not a small drift. It turns the day into a continuous feeding window and leaves little room for a true pause.

Compressing 15 hours to 12 is a realistic act of restraint. It removes several hours of opportunity for extra calories, especially late at night, without asking the average person to reorganize life around deprivation. The body receives a clearer signal, and the mind receives a cleaner rule. Precision makes the protocol livable.

Longo also connects this smaller window to sleep. When eating extends deep into the evening, digestion can compete with rest, and sleep quality may suffer. He points to research from Satchin Panda showing improvement when long eating windows are reduced. The outcome is tangible: fewer late meals, better rest, and a steadier morning.

This is not austerity. It is a daily reset that respects ordinary life. You do not need to skip entire days of food to practice metabolic restraint; you need a boundary that lets the body close one phase before beginning the next. The simplest protocol often carries the most enduring power.

Why Realistic Beats Extreme

The strongest fasting protocol is the one you can actually live with. Longo does not dismiss alternate-day fasting or the 5:2 model because they lack effect; he questions their place for the general population because they demand so much. Not eating every other day, or avoiding food for two days each week, asks for a level of disruption few people maintain. Longevity requires continuity.

Adherence is not a secondary detail. It is the bridge between science and life. A protocol can look powerful in a controlled setting and still fail at the dinner table, during travel, or in a household with children. The most elegant plan becomes irrelevant when it cannot be repeated.

That is why Longo keeps returning to the 12-hour window. It creates a daily rhythm without making fasting the center of identity. You preserve choice, social ease, and nutritional adequacy while still practicing restraint. The protocol supports resilience because it does not create strain.

Evening timing brings the same philosophy into sharper focus. Longo recommends avoiding food in the final three hours before sleep when possible. The reason is practical: late eating can disturb rest, and rest is foundational to recovery. A calmer night begins before the head reaches the pillow.

Still, he leaves room for the individual. Some people feel unwell or restless when dinner is too small or too early, and Longo acknowledges that a larger dinner can work when sleep remains strong. The measure is not purity. The measure is whether the body stays in equilibrium.

Your own sleep response becomes useful feedback. If a late, heavy meal leads to waking at 2 or 3 in the morning, the body has given you information. If earlier or lighter eating improves the night, the protocol becomes clear. You do not need advanced data to notice whether you wake restored.

This is where fasting regains its proper scale. It is not a contest of willpower or a performance of restriction. It is a deliberately chosen rhythm that protects energy, sleep, and long-term consistency. The promise of fasting only matters when the protocol can live inside a human life.

Beyond Daily Fasting

Longo separates daily time-restricted eating from the fasting-mimicking diet. The first is a steady rhythm. The second is a periodic protocol designed to produce fasting-like signals while the person still eats a carefully structured menu. That distinction matters because it changes the burden on daily life.

Can we minimize the changes that you have as long as you think you can keep them for the rest of your life.

The fasting-mimicking diet grew from calorie restriction research. Longo describes calorie restriction as powerful across animals and in people with certain health problems, but difficult to practice as a permanent reduction in daily calories. A 20 to 25 percent decrease can become impractical and can introduce its own issues. The fasting-mimicking diet was designed to seek the benefits without making chronic deprivation the rule.

In the transcript, the protocol is described as plant-based, low calorie, low sugar, low protein, and higher in plant-based fats. The food is not random. It is arranged to help the body respond in a way that resembles fasting, while still giving the person something to eat. Structure replaces guesswork.

Longo explains that the program was first developed in mice and then studied in people using blood markers that indicate a fasting-like response. He also connects the work to genes and pathways involved in aging, including IGF-1, growth hormone signaling, and TOR. In plain terms, the aim is to influence the body’s aging networks in ways that support health span, strength, and resilience.

The research has been tested across a wide range of conditions. Longo references work involving diabetes, pre-diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer’s, autoimmune conditions, and aging. He is clear that the potential is broad, and he also grounds that potential in trials rather than spectacle. The focus remains on whether the protocol can move meaningful markers and support better outcomes.

This is also why the fasting-mimicking diet should not be mistaken for daily deprivation. Longo describes cycles that may occur for several days at a time, sometimes monthly and sometimes less often, depending on the research context and the person. The design is periodic. The body receives a defined challenge, then returns to nourishment.

Longo pairs this work with a broader longevity diet because fasting alone is not the whole architecture. What you eat every day still matters. He questions simple labels like Mediterranean, vegan, ketogenic, or pescetarian unless we also look at the specific composition of the diet. Protein quality, amino acid profiles, and personal tolerance all shape the response.

That nuance gives the philosophy its strength. Longevity is not built from one heroic practice; it comes from a precise pattern of eating, fasting, sleeping, and adapting over time. You choose the protocol that restores balance rather than one that performs discipline. The body listens to what you repeat.

Turning on the ability of the body to fix itself.

Wim's Wise Words

A second take, from someone who's lived it.

If you take one thing from this, make it the evening boundary. Not the fast. Not the number. The boundary.

I would start by choosing the time you want to wake clear, then work backwards. If breakfast is 8 a.m., close the kitchen at 8 p.m. If sleep matters, finish the real meal earlier than that. Give yourself a quiet final stretch where the body is not negotiating with digestion.

That sounds almost too simple, which is why it works. A 12-hour fast does not ask you to become a different person. It asks you to stop drifting. The late snack, the second glass, the handful of something while standing at the counter; these are small things, but small things become the architecture of a day.

Where I'd Start

Run the protocol for two weeks without making it dramatic. Twelve hours eating, twelve hours fasting. Keep protein, minerals, and real food in the day. Do not use the fast as a quiet excuse to under-eat, then call the fatigue discipline. Restraint should make you steadier, not smaller.

I like the 12-hour window because it protects the two things most people sacrifice first: sleep and consistency. You can have dinner with your family. You can travel. You can train, recover, and still live inside the protocol. That matters. Longevity is not built from the most impressive rule; it is built from the rule you return to when life is full.

If you already fast for 16 hours and feel sharp, sleep well, train well, and eat enough, you may not need to change anything. But if you feel cold, restless, irritable, or pulled toward overeating later, listen carefully. The body gives clean feedback when we stop arguing with it.

For a broader frame on fasting without force, I would pair this with Fasting Works Best When It Respects the Body. If you want the deeper longevity diet context, Longevity Nutrition Needs Evidence More Than Ideology is worth your time.

The Caveat

Do not turn fasting into a badge. That is where a useful protocol becomes noise. If you are pregnant, underweight, recovering from disordered eating, managing medication, or dealing with a health condition, get qualified guidance before you experiment. Precision includes knowing when not to push.

My own rule is plain: the protocol should leave the next morning cleaner. Better focus. Less heaviness. A steadier appetite. If it does that, keep it. If it makes the day narrower, revise it. Mastery is not severity. Mastery is the ability to choose the rhythm that keeps you in equilibrium.