Sauna and Cold Plunge Benefits: Heat, Cold, Rest | Vitruvian

Video·The Happiest CEO Podcast ·9 min read·July 21, 2021

Dr. Marc Cohen frames sauna as a simple ritual of rinse, heat, cold, rest, and repeat, with the real benefit coming from knowing your edge and giving the body time to return to equilibrium.

The Core Protocol

A complete sauna ritual begins with a simple sequence: rinse, heat, cold, rest, repeat. It is easy to remember because it follows the body’s natural rhythm. You prepare, you warm, you cool, you recover, then you decide whether to begin again.

The rinse matters. It is not only hygiene, and it is not an afterthought before the real practice begins. Rinsing clears the dust of the day and signals that you are entering the protocol with intention.

Wet skin also changes the way heat arrives. Water transfers heat more effectively than air, so a rinse prepares the body to receive warmth with greater precision. The first step is quiet, but it shapes everything that follows.

The heat can come from many sources. A traditional sauna, an infrared sauna, a steam room, a hot tub, or another controlled hot environment can all serve the ritual when used with care. The vessel changes; the principle remains the same.

This is why the protocol should feel repeatable, not rigid. A prescription can make the body an opponent. A ritual makes the body a guide, and that distinction is central to intelligent recovery.

The first round often asks for patience. The body may take time to begin sweating, especially if the heat is new or the day has been demanding. By the second and third round, many people notice that warmth arrives sooner and the body responds with more ease.

The goal is not to perform endurance. The goal is to build a clean relationship with heat, cold, and rest. When the sequence becomes familiar, you stop chasing numbers and start listening with discipline.

We approach sauna as a sanctuary for adaptation. The practice is deliberate enough to challenge the body, but spacious enough to remain enjoyable. Rinse, heat, cold, rest, repeat is simple because the body understands simplicity.

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So you're actually wanted for detox reason because you want the blood to go reason because you want the blood to go through the organs. through the organs. You basically catch it by sending all You basically catch it by sending all the blood into your extremities. the blood into your extremities. It catches all the toxins that are It catches all the toxins that are available at that very moment. Then you available at that very moment. Then you go into the cold which means it's all go into the cold which means it's all pulled called called home pulled called called home to to the to the organs and it goes to to the to the organs and it goes through the organs through the organs more efficiently. So you're pumping more efficiently. So you're pumping blood to the outside into the inside. To blood to the outside into the inside. To the outside to pick up the waste, to the the outside to pick up the waste, to the inside to clear out the waste. And inside to clear out the waste. And you're drinking lots to to flush it out. you're drinking lots to to flush it out. You know that makes much more sense when You know that makes much more sense when I hear that way. I've been exposed to I hear that way. I've been exposed to this, you know, thinking for a long long this, you know, thinking for a long long time time on a really shallow level. So people on a really shallow level. So people would say you know it's good to have would say you know it's good to have cold because cold because you know and I get hardened the body or you know and I get hardened the body or you know whatever it is said but when you know whatever it is said but when you actually talk about the more at a you actually talk about the more at a more detailed level more detailed level to me that makes way more sense. Like to me that makes way more sense. Like I'm I'm more inclined to do it I'm I'm more inclined to do it more regularly because I actually more regularly because I actually understand and can really see like that understand and can really see like that that's definitely make so much more that's definitely make so much more sense.

Hi everyone. We have Dr. Mark with us again. I'm so glad that he reached out again. I'm so glad that he reached out while he was in this area so we can have while he was in this area so we can have another recording of all the wisdom that another recording of all the wisdom that you bring us. Thank you so much Mark for you bring us. Thank you so much Mark for being here. It's such a pleasure. Yeah, being here. It's such a pleasure. Yeah, thanks for inviting me back. Anytime. thanks for inviting me back. Anytime. Anytime. Hey Anytime. Hey I would like to pick up on where we I would like to pick up on where we where we start stopped last year when we where we start stopped last year when we had a recording and we talked a lot had a recording and we talked a lot about sort of protocols of, you know, about sort of protocols of, you know, sauna heat protocols but not to the sauna heat protocols but not to the degree degree that I know you have knowledge of. So it that I know you have knowledge of. So it would be great if you could take us a would be great if you could take us a little bit through what you find are the little bit through what you find are the building blocks of a good, building blocks of a good, you know, heat treatment or cold you know, heat treatment or cold treatment or, you know, however you treatment or, you know, however you would like that to call that would like that to call that milestones or, you know, markers of what milestones or, you know, markers of what you would put into it. And and we have you would put into it. And and we have done a lot of research in this cuz I done a lot of research in this cuz I often get asked, you know, what often get asked, you know, what temperature and how long and and you temperature and how long and and you know for this and that and you know what know for this and that and you know what do I do and and really what you've got do I do and and really what you've got to go on is incredibly rich history of

to go on is incredibly rich history of people doing saunaring and hot and cold people doing saunaring and hot and cold bathing for, you know, literally bathing for, you know, literally hundreds if not thousands of years. hundreds if not thousands of years. And when you go into that there's a a And when you go into that there's a a general protocol that has been used over general protocol that has been used over the ages that seems to work really well the ages that seems to work really well and we can unpack that but that that and we can unpack that but that that protocol is to rinse, protocol is to rinse, do hot, cold, rest, repeat. do hot, cold, rest, repeat. So that's a very simple, you know, So that's a very simple, you know, protocol. Rinse, hot, cold, rest, protocol. Rinse, hot, cold, rest, repeat. repeat. And that's, you know, traditionally so And that's, you know, traditionally so you know you rinse so you're actually you know you rinse so you're actually you're going in clean so you're not, you you're going in clean so you're not, you know, you know, the you're actually know, you know, the you're actually preparing yourself for for the process. preparing yourself for for the process. So this is not about, So this is not about, you know, going to get clean in the you know, going to get clean in the sauna and using the sauna as a form of sauna and using the sauna as a form of hygiene. It's a hygiene. It's a it's actually a it's actually a practice that you're preparing yourself practice that you're preparing yourself for and you're getting rid of the dust for and you're getting rid of the dust of the day and of the day and also by wetting your skin you get more also by wetting your skin you get more heat transferred. heat transferred. Cuz water transfers heat 25 times more

Cuz water transfers heat 25 times more than air. So, than air. So, you know, you know, it's good to rinse off first and then it's good to rinse off first and then you do heat and the heat can be, you you do heat and the heat can be, you know, a sauna, infrared sauna, dry know, a sauna, infrared sauna, dry sauna, you know, could be a steam room, sauna, you know, could be a steam room, could be a hot tub that's, you know, 40 could be a hot tub that's, you know, 40 42 43. In Japan they go crazy hot 42 43. In Japan they go crazy hot up to 47 which I don't recommend up to 47 which I don't recommend but you want to go into an environment but you want to go into an environment where you're where you're really stressing your body. really stressing your body. And in terms of the the length of time And in terms of the the length of time it's not again it's not prescriptive so it's not again it's not prescriptive so it depends on your body in that moment it depends on your body in that moment and and the the objective is to go to a place where objective is to go to a place where you're comfortably uncomfortable. I you're comfortably uncomfortable. I think we talked about that. Yes. That think we talked about that. Yes. That that that place of forced mindfulness. that that place of forced mindfulness. You're meeting your your boundaries. You're meeting your your boundaries. That's it. You can just stay there. And That's it. You can just stay there. And you're just visiting the edge of your you're just visiting the edge of your comfort zone. You're like it. You're comfort zone. You're like it. You're just having a little visit saying hello just having a little visit saying hello to your comfort zone and your comfort to your comfort zone and your comfort zone will change depending on your mood.

zone will change depending on your mood. Like if you're anxious and you've got Like if you're anxious and you've got things going in your head your comfort things going in your head your comfort zone will be contracted. If you're zone will be contracted. If you're feeling really good and relaxed you know feeling really good and relaxed you know maybe you can maybe you can tolerate more. So it's not about the tolerate more. So it's not about the time and the the heat it's about what's time and the the heat it's about what's happening with you in that moment. And I happening with you in that moment. And I often liken it to a like a yoga stretch. often liken it to a like a yoga stretch. If you're, you know, stretching in yoga If you're, you know, stretching in yoga and you get to the limit of your stretch and you get to the limit of your stretch there's a point where there's a point where it's sort of uncomfortable but if you it's sort of uncomfortable but if you just breathe and focus you can you can just breathe and focus you can you can be there. But if you try and push be there. But if you try and push further you're going to hurt yourself. further you're going to hurt yourself. So you don't want to push through that So you don't want to push through that comfort zone you just want to respect it comfort zone you just want to respect it and there's that point where it just and there's that point where it just makes you makes you focus on that area of your body or if focus on that area of your body or if it's heat you just focus on your body it's heat you just focus on your body and you can just breathe and and and you can just breathe and and tolerate that. tolerate that. And you may only have to do two or three And you may only have to do two or three breaths at that point maybe you know a breaths at that point maybe you know a little bit longer but how long can you little bit longer but how long can you be in that extreme heat and just breathe be in that extreme heat and just breathe and be comfortable with it and then at and be comfortable with it and then at that point you change. that point you change. So and that that point is different for

So and that that point is different for everybody but it's not as you might go everybody but it's not as you might go into the sauna and you'll be reading a into the sauna and you'll be reading a book or chatting but then when it gets book or chatting but then when it gets really hot your body starts talking to really hot your body starts talking to you hey you know you hey you know maybe we have to get out of here and maybe we have to get out of here and this is the point where I call where this is the point where I call where your mitochondria talk to your mind. your mitochondria talk to your mind. So your mitochondria and your mind are So your mitochondria and your mind are on the same page on the same page and the reason why they do that is and the reason why they do that is because because you're in a life threatening situation. you're in a life threatening situation. All life all life on earth All life all life on earth lives in a very narrow narrow lives in a very narrow narrow temperature window. So all life has to temperature window. So all life has to deal with thermoregulation. deal with thermoregulation. If you get too hot for too long you die. If you get too hot for too long you die. If you get too cold too cold for too If you get too cold too cold for too long you die. long you die. So you can put yourself in a life So you can put yourself in a life threatening situation and the idea with threatening situation and the idea with a sauna is you're doing it in comfort a sauna is you're doing it in comfort and full control. and full control. So So yeah. What would be the what would be yeah. What would be the what would be the downside cuz I hear some athletes the downside cuz I hear some athletes asking us look, you know, I really want asking us look, you know, I really want even hotter saunas, you know, we want to even hotter saunas, you know, we want to really really high high temperature and really really high high temperature and there's a lot of benefit in there for

there's a lot of benefit in there for us. us. My gut feeling tells me like if you push My gut feeling tells me like if you push that too often too much it's probably that too often too much it's probably not so good but I wouldn't actually know not so good but I wouldn't actually know exactly what would be the downside of it exactly what would be the downside of it or the danger. or the danger. Well, it's not so much the temperature Well, it's not so much the temperature cuz I mean I've been in saunas 110 cuz I mean I've been in saunas 110 degrees centigrade in Germany degrees centigrade in Germany but it's very dry so you can tolerate but it's very dry so you can tolerate that. It's still really hot and you have that. It's still really hot and you have to breathe slowly or your nose sort of to breathe slowly or your nose sort of burns and I find the tops of my ears so burns and I find the tops of my ears so they're going to burn. So they have the they're going to burn. So they have the sauna hats and all. sauna hats and all. So it's depends on the humidity cuz So it's depends on the humidity cuz you know, if that was humid you wouldn't you know, if that was humid you wouldn't be able to, you know, be able to, you know, steam room at 48 degrees can be really steam room at 48 degrees can be really really hot cuz the cuz of that water really hot cuz the cuz of that water transferring and then also movement is a transferring and then also movement is a big thing in those situations. So if big thing in those situations. So if you're just sitting still you get the you're just sitting still you get the heat through conduction. heat through conduction. You know, this radiant you know, radiant You know, this radiant you know, radiant heat and then it conducts into your heat and then it conducts into your body. body. If the air is moving then you get If the air is moving then you get conduction and convection conduction and convection and that's why you know in Germany they and that's why you know in Germany they do the aufguss, you know, they get the do the aufguss, you know, they get the towels out and they swing that around. towels out and they swing that around. When you have the the air

When you have the the air with the the the steam going up your with the the the steam going up your body you get this really intense heat body you get this really intense heat cuz you get both conduction and cuz you get both conduction and convection. convection. So the the temperature is not as So the the temperature is not as important as how humid it is and whether important as how humid it is and whether the air is moving the air is moving and it's really about your response to and it's really about your response to it. it. So how long does it take you to start So how long does it take you to start sweating? And that that's also different sweating? And that that's also different from everybody. If you're a regular from everybody. If you're a regular sauna bather sometimes you you know sauna bather sometimes you you know you'll you'll crack, you know, you'll you'll you'll crack, you know, you'll you'll start to sweat much sooner. you'll start to sweat much sooner. If you're doing three rounds I suggest If you're doing three rounds I suggest you know you know rinse, hot, cold, rest, repeat and it's rinse, hot, cold, rest, repeat and it's good to do three rounds and by the good to do three rounds and by the second and third round you'll start to second and third round you'll start to sweat much quicker than the first round. sweat much quicker than the first round. And there's things you can do before you And there's things you can do before you have the sauna and and afterwards that have the sauna and and afterwards that that that that can also enhance that. So yeah the that can also enhance that. So yeah the temperature people want it hotter hotter temperature people want it hotter hotter that's fine but it's really more to to that's fine but it's really more to to do with how they respond and how long it do with how they respond and how long it takes them to sweat, how comfortable you takes them to sweat, how comfortable you feel and often people feel more

feel and often people feel more comfortable in an infrared sauna because comfortable in an infrared sauna because they can sweat at a lower temperature. they can sweat at a lower temperature. So they can tolerate that better. Yeah. So they can tolerate that better. Yeah. Um so and that's a personal preference I Um so and that's a personal preference I think as well. Yeah. But is there a real think as well. Yeah. But is there a real can you I guess impact the body can you I guess impact the body negatively if you would negatively if you would way overstep sort of your edges? Oh way overstep sort of your edges? Oh absolutely and and there's a, you know, absolutely and and there's a, you know, another safety protocol that I I really another safety protocol that I I really recommend and you know that is you need recommend and you know that is you need to stay hydrated. to stay hydrated. So you know and with the best quality So you know and with the best quality water you can you can have. So you know water you can you can have. So you know hydration is super important and I you hydration is super important and I you know I can talk forever about water know I can talk forever about water that's another topic. So yeah so if if that's another topic. So yeah so if if you're dehydrated you're dehydrated that's an issue and that's an issue and if you're under the influence of drugs if you're under the influence of drugs and alcohol that's an issue because you and alcohol that's an issue because you don't realize you're dehydrated. don't realize you're dehydrated. So you want to be, you know, you don't So you want to be, you know, you don't want to be doing this drunk and there want to be doing this drunk and there have been deaths in saunas and most of have been deaths in saunas and most of them are associated with being drunk and them are associated with being drunk and alcohol. alcohol. Cuz you go into the sauna you're drunk Cuz you go into the sauna you're drunk and you sort of fall asleep in the sauna

and you sort of fall asleep in the sauna and your body dehydrates and you know and your body dehydrates and you know your kidneys pack up or your kidneys pack up or so yeah so so yeah so staying hydrated, being aware staying hydrated, being aware knowing your limits. So having a rough knowing your limits. So having a rough idea, you know, idea, you know, you know, roughly after 10 or 15 minutes you know, roughly after 10 or 15 minutes I know that that's about my limit so, I know that that's about my limit so, you know, I'm not going to go for 45 you know, I'm not going to go for 45 minutes. So so roughly having idea what minutes. So so roughly having idea what your own limits are is is good. your own limits are is is good. I mean obviously taking care with hot I mean obviously taking care with hot surfaces surfaces and also taking care with posture and also taking care with posture change. change. So if you're lying down in a sauna So if you're lying down in a sauna when you stand up all your blood vessels when you stand up all your blood vessels are dilated your blood's going to are dilated your blood's going to gravity's going to pull it down into gravity's going to pull it down into your legs and you're going to get dizzy your legs and you're going to get dizzy and there's a chance of fainting. and there's a chance of fainting. And you know if you And you know if you finish sauna you don't want to you know finish sauna you don't want to you know you'll faint and hit the rocks and burn you'll faint and hit the rocks and burn yourself on the rocks. yourself on the rocks. So you know, taking care with hot So you know, taking care with hot surfaces and taking care with just surfaces and taking care with just changing in your posture. So getting up changing in your posture. So getting up slowly maybe having a rail that you when slowly maybe having a rail that you when you get up you can just hold on and you you get up you can just hold on and you know, stand up before you before you know, stand up before you before you start walking out cuz you don't want to start walking out cuz you don't want to you don't want to faint.

you don't want to faint. And then And then um um having fun I think is really important having fun I think is really important with it. Like enjoying it. This is not a with it. Like enjoying it. This is not a a torture chamber. This is not something a torture chamber. This is not something you know, you know, no pain no gain and have to push through no pain no gain and have to push through the pain barrier. No, you want to enjoy the pain barrier. No, you want to enjoy it. And and I think that's really it. And and I think that's really important and you know, there's so many important and you know, there's so many things you can do to enhance the fun. things you can do to enhance the fun. You know, sharing with people, bringing You know, sharing with people, bringing in other tools and tricks and stuff in other tools and tricks and stuff which we can talk about. And then which we can talk about. And then the last thing is really resting. the last thing is really resting. And I I I feel that's not often talked And I I I feel that's not often talked enough about and that's enough about and that's you're exploring the edges of your you're exploring the edges of your physiology here. When you do hot and physiology here. When you do hot and then you do cold then you do cold then you want to practice finding that then you want to practice finding that balance point in the middle. balance point in the middle. That's the point of bliss. That's the point of bliss. And it's also the point of homeostasis And it's also the point of homeostasis that gives you the greatest resilience that gives you the greatest resilience cuz if you find that that still point, cuz if you find that that still point, it gives you the greatest movement it gives you the greatest movement in either direction. in either direction. They say in in martial arts and in They say in in martial arts and in eastern wisdom they say that the eastern wisdom they say that the greatest movement comes from the

greatest movement comes from the stillest point. stillest point. So if you can find that still point in So if you can find that still point in your own physiology, your own physiology, then all your hormones and all your your then all your hormones and all your your brain waves and all all your whole body brain waves and all all your whole body can come into a balance. can come into a balance. And that aligning that and finding that And that aligning that and finding that still point so you're actively doing still point so you're actively doing nothing. nothing. Yeah. And that's a great time after Yeah. And that's a great time after sauna and you've done the hot the the sauna and you've done the hot the the cold it doesn't have to be that long. cold it doesn't have to be that long. You just sort of snapping cold and and You just sort of snapping cold and and bringing your blood vessels you know, bringing your blood vessels you know, from open to closed. But then the from open to closed. But then the relaxation I I I suggest yeah, you want relaxation I I I suggest yeah, you want to spend at least as much time relaxing to spend at least as much time relaxing as you have been in the sauna. So you as you have been in the sauna. So you relax after after the sauna. relax after after the sauna. And yeah, so and letting your body come And yeah, so and letting your body come into balance and to have a area prepared into balance and to have a area prepared for relaxing. Yeah. So whether that's for relaxing. Yeah. So whether that's you know, a lounge chair, you know, you know, a lounge chair, you know, a hammock or you know, somewhere where a hammock or you know, somewhere where you're comfortable and you can really you're comfortable and you can really say this is my time out. I'm actively say this is my time out. I'm actively going to do nothing. going to do nothing. Yeah. And you're just letting your body Yeah. And you're just letting your body come back and find its balance. And come back and find its balance. And that's that's a really valuable time.

that's that's a really valuable time. It's a great time to meditate. It's a It's a great time to meditate. It's a great time to great time to get in touch with your body and to see get in touch with your body and to see what's going on and and try and and find what's going on and and try and and find that still point that homeo that point that still point that homeo that point of homeostasis. And that gives you the of homeostasis. And that gives you the greatest resilience for coping with life greatest resilience for coping with life and coping with anything else that and coping with anything else that happens. And then once you've found that happens. And then once you've found that that still point, then you can repeat that still point, then you can repeat the process. the process. You know, You know, speaking from my own experience, I would speaking from my own experience, I would you know, I would would hear your advice you know, I would would hear your advice and then you know, I might might have a and then you know, I might might have a session session and then there might be something on so and then there might be something on so you know, I just get up and you know, you know, I just get up and you know, and and quit it there and that might be and and quit it there and that might be okay and you know, I might not get the okay and you know, I might not get the greatest benefit from it but it only greatest benefit from it but it only becomes obvious when I have a really becomes obvious when I have a really like let's say you know, I'm below par like let's say you know, I'm below par with my energy and so on. If you then with my energy and so on. If you then push through, I certainly get the sense push through, I certainly get the sense of this is actually unhealthy to do. of this is actually unhealthy to do. Like I have to give my body the recovery Like I have to give my body the recovery every time there. Yeah. Cuz if you're every time there. Yeah. Cuz if you're going to the gym you're doing your going to the gym you're doing your workout and you have a sauna then get workout and you have a sauna then get out of the sauna have a shower and just out of the sauna have a shower and just get

get going in the car. Your body hasn't had a going in the car. Your body hasn't had a chance to really find its balance. So chance to really find its balance. So it's trying to do that while you're it's trying to do that while you're doing all the you know, dealing with doing all the you know, dealing with traffic or you you know, you're doing traffic or you you know, you're doing all these other things you have to do. all these other things you have to do. And you're not giving your body a chance And you're not giving your body a chance to really find that still point, find to really find that still point, find that that point of um that that point of um of of homeostasis of of balance. homeostasis of of balance. Yeah. And having that point of balance Yeah. And having that point of balance means your whole life can then work means your whole life can then work better. better. So really respecting that and you know, So really respecting that and you know, where is my point of balance today? And where is my point of balance today? And it'll be different each day and maybe it it'll be different each day and maybe it takes longer or shorter to to find that. takes longer or shorter to to find that. But I I find a lot of places around the But I I find a lot of places around the world world spas and resorts, they really don't spas and resorts, they really don't often they don't spend enough time on or often they don't spend enough time on or enough attention to the cold plunge to enough attention to the cold plunge to the cold experience. So they'll have a the cold experience. So they'll have a you know, a hammam or a sauna or or a you know, a hammam or a sauna or or a you know, hot hot tub but then the cold you know, hot hot tub but then the cold might just be a cold shower. And often might just be a cold shower. And often it's not chilled. It might be 18 20 it's not chilled. It might be 18 20 degrees which is not really chilled. And degrees which is not really chilled. And the ones that that do, then you also

the ones that that do, then you also need a space that's dedicated. I I think need a space that's dedicated. I I think the Roman the ancient Romans they did the Roman the ancient Romans they did this really well. They they had that the this really well. They they had that the tepidarium. tepidarium. So the cold area was for the cold and So the cold area was for the cold and they had the you know, the sauna but they had the you know, the sauna but then they had the tepidarium which is then they had the tepidarium which is just you know, a comfortable temperature just you know, a comfortable temperature where you'd go often in dim lighting, where you'd go often in dim lighting, maybe some nice music but then that's maybe some nice music but then that's where you just go and relax and find where you just go and relax and find your balance. your balance. So you want a So you want a a space that's dedicated to to being a space that's dedicated to to being really comfortable. really comfortable. So you've been uncomfortable in the So you've been uncomfortable in the sauna. So how comfortable can you sauna. So how comfortable can you experience? And exploring the extent of experience? And exploring the extent of how comfortable you can be how comfortable you can be this is the time to do it. this is the time to do it. You know, you've gone to hot, you've You know, you've gone to hot, you've gone to cold. Now I'm going to you know, gone to cold. Now I'm going to you know, how comfortable can I possibly be? And how comfortable can I possibly be? And it's a bit of an exploration. You so you it's a bit of an exploration. You so you experiment with yourself and maybe you experiment with yourself and maybe you fall asleep but that's okay. Then you fall asleep but that's okay. Then you needed it. needed it. How comfortable can I be that I'm not How comfortable can I be that I'm not thinking worrying about things. So I'm thinking worrying about things. So I'm comfortable not just with my body but comfortable not just with my body but with my thoughts. with my thoughts. So this is a So this is a a practice that you need to put a practice that you need to put attention to. So you're actively doing

attention to. So you're actively doing nothing. Not just I'm going to do nothing. Not just I'm going to do nothing and watch TV. nothing and watch TV. It's I'm actively going to do nothing It's I'm actively going to do nothing and I'm going to experiment how and I'm going to experiment how comfortable can I feel in my body and my comfortable can I feel in my body and my mind. And the sauna is actually like the mind. And the sauna is actually like the preparation. Just like yoga. Originally preparation. Just like yoga. Originally yoga the asana practice was a yoga the asana practice was a preparation for meditation. preparation for meditation. So you get your body So you get your body in in a state where it's flexible and in in a state where it's flexible and you've got a comfortable seat and then you've got a comfortable seat and then you're in a in a comfortable position you're in a in a comfortable position for the meditation. for the meditation. The sauna and the hot and cold, this is The sauna and the hot and cold, this is the the workout for your body so then the the workout for your body so then you can be you can be really comfortable and find that that really comfortable and find that that point of balance at a physiological point of balance at a physiological level down down to the mitochondria. level down down to the mitochondria. That's amazing and that's that's that's That's amazing and that's that's that's great to to point that out because I great to to point that out because I think it's something that many people think it's something that many people overlook. And it's simple. Maybe it's overlook. And it's simple. Maybe it's just a a mat on the ground with a pillow just a a mat on the ground with a pillow or some nice lighting or or some nice lighting or it doesn't have to be complicated but it doesn't have to be complicated but but putting attention to that but putting attention to that Yeah, I think it's really really Yeah, I think it's really really valuable. valuable. All right. So so going from the hot hot All right. So so going from the hot hot experience you would go

experience you would go first first the cold afterwards before first first the cold afterwards before rest, yeah? rest, yeah? Yes. Yeah. And and the reason you do Yes. Yeah. And and the reason you do that is when you're when you're in the that is when you're when you're in the heat, you're very vasodilated. So all heat, you're very vasodilated. So all your blood vessels are open. You're your blood vessels are open. You're um picking up a lot of metabolic waste um picking up a lot of metabolic waste products that are in your muscles and products that are in your muscles and your skin your skin but you're not making new metabolic but you're not making new metabolic waste products. You're not actively waste products. You're not actively using your muscles. using your muscles. But then what you want to do is push But then what you want to do is push that blood from the periphery into your that blood from the periphery into your core. core. And to do that, the cold what that does And to do that, the cold what that does it actually takes a while for your body it actually takes a while for your body temperature to cool down. Your periphery temperature to cool down. Your periphery cools down much quicker than your core. cools down much quicker than your core. So you go into the cold, your arms and So you go into the cold, your arms and legs will contract the most and all that legs will contract the most and all that blood will go into your blood will go into your your core which is your internal organs. your core which is your internal organs. So it goes through your liver and your So it goes through your liver and your kidneys which are the the filters. So kidneys which are the the filters. So they're taking up all those waste they're taking up all those waste products and filtering it filtering them products and filtering it filtering them out provided you're hydrated enough. out provided you're hydrated enough. And that's a really great process to And that's a really great process to clean it's like a house cleaning for clean it's like a house cleaning for your body.

your body. And and yeah, it's for that And and yeah, it's for that that whole you you open your blood that whole you you open your blood vessels, close your blood vessels and vessels, close your blood vessels and then it almost stops the heat coming out cuz if your blood vessels are closed on the if your blood vessels are closed on the surface, your your core is still warm surface, your your core is still warm then that heat is sort of trapped in then that heat is sort of trapped in your body. So you haven't cooled your your body. So you haven't cooled your body significantly. You might not body significantly. You might not unless you spend 10 minutes or something unless you spend 10 minutes or something so your body really cools down. So it's so your body really cools down. So it's like a snap cold. So you're just forcing like a snap cold. So you're just forcing the blood back into your core and then the blood back into your core and then when you're resting, that core when you're resting, that core temperature can merge with the the temperature can merge with the the periphery and your blood vessels can periphery and your blood vessels can find the sweet spot. find the sweet spot. So it's like if you had a hot shower So it's like if you had a hot shower then a cold shower, instead of being hot then a cold shower, instead of being hot and let's say the room is cold, you come and let's say the room is cold, you come out you're vasodilated, you know, you out you're vasodilated, you know, you feel the room is cold. If you have a a feel the room is cold. If you have a a cold shower just after your hot shower, cold shower just after your hot shower, you come out into a cold room, you're you come out into a cold room, you're actually feeling the heat from inside actually feeling the heat from inside your body. your body. So that's what you're doing. You're sort

So that's what you're doing. You're sort of trapping the heat inside your body of trapping the heat inside your body and then letting it all come into and then letting it all come into balance. balance. So the cold doesn't have to be a long So the cold doesn't have to be a long cold experience. It could just be cool cold experience. It could just be cool air. I mean if you've got doesn't have air. I mean if you've got doesn't have to be a ice plunge or a cold shower. to be a ice plunge or a cold shower. Can just be walking out walking around Can just be walking out walking around in the cold air if you're it's winter in the cold air if you're it's winter time or can be a you know, time or can be a you know, a cold shower. a cold shower. I think if it's water cold water, I like I think if it's water cold water, I like it it below 12 degrees. And um there's below 12 degrees. And um there's you know, evidence for in your body that you know, evidence for in your body that once it's below 12 degrees you get this once it's below 12 degrees you get this strong muscular vasoconstriction. You strong muscular vasoconstriction. You know, the smooth muscle contracts really know, the smooth muscle contracts really strongly. If it's 18 20 degrees like strongly. If it's 18 20 degrees like ambient and you know, you I've been ambient and you know, you I've been Byron Bay, the water doesn't get that Byron Bay, the water doesn't get that cold. Like I'm down in Melbourne, you cold. Like I'm down in Melbourne, you know, the in winter time now the tap know, the in winter time now the tap water might be you know, 8 10 degrees. water might be you know, 8 10 degrees. So that really gives you that So that really gives you that that that that response. that that that response. So it's really nice to get you know, So it's really nice to get you know, like a cold experience. Depends on how like a cold experience. Depends on how long if it's in the air might take

long if it's in the air might take longer to cool down and then then you longer to cool down and then then you relax. relax. That makes sense. Oh, that's great. And That makes sense. Oh, that's great. And so how long would you say is a good so how long would you say is a good amount of time? Surely it it depends on amount of time? Surely it it depends on the person and the situation and and the person and the situation and and their health at that moment but overall their health at that moment but overall is it is it you know, is it just a couple of minutes you know, is it just a couple of minutes or are you talking 10 minutes or 20? or are you talking 10 minutes or 20? In the cool? Mhm. Um In the cool? Mhm. Um often I'll I'll do you know, two to often I'll I'll do you know, two to three minutes. three minutes. That's That's all it takes to That's That's all it takes to Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that I do that in Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that I do that in a cold shower. Like in winter time in a a cold shower. Like in winter time in a cold shower or in a cold plunge, couple cold shower or in a cold plunge, couple of minutes is plenty. of minutes is plenty. Yeah. And and often you want to get to Yeah. And and often you want to get to the point where you're in the cold and the point where you're in the cold and you're breathing comfortably. you're breathing comfortably. So again it's finding comfort So again it's finding comfort in cold water is uncomfortable. It's an in cold water is uncomfortable. It's an uncomfortable situation but you want to uncomfortable situation but you want to be able to feel comfortable in that be able to feel comfortable in that uncomfortable situation. uncomfortable situation. So yeah, go into the cold but you can So yeah, go into the cold but you can still breathe. So, it's not you're not still breathe. So, it's not you're not And then you're coming out, "Oh my god, And then you're coming out, "Oh my god, that was so cold." You want to It's that was so cold." You want to It's cold, and then cold, and then "Okay, I can tolerate that." And once

"Okay, I can tolerate that." And once you're comfortable there, then you can you're comfortable there, then you can move on. Right, because what would be move on. Right, because what would be thinking about, you know, the customers thinking about, you know, the customers that we have that are on the extreme that we have that are on the extreme side, what is the downside of having an side, what is the downside of having an ice bath for too long, too early, that ice bath for too long, too early, that type of thing? Well, if you have an ice type of thing? Well, if you have an ice bath for a long time, you'll start to bath for a long time, you'll start to drop your your core body temperature. drop your your core body temperature. Like a short ice bath, even one or, you Like a short ice bath, even one or, you know, a minute or so, you'll know, a minute or so, you'll vasoconstrict your periphery. So, you vasoconstrict your periphery. So, you you won't even feel your hands and feet, you won't even feel your hands and feet, and that's that's what feels painful in and that's that's what feels painful in an ice bath cuz And that's if you're in an ice bath cuz And that's if you're in severe cold, they're parts that get severe cold, they're parts that get frostbite. frostbite. Because the blood vessels are closed Because the blood vessels are closed down so much because you don't normally down so much because you don't normally radiate a lot of radiate a lot of heat from there that, you know, you heat from there that, you know, you can't nourish the tissue, and the tissue can't nourish the tissue, and the tissue dies. dies. So, it's the hands and feet will feel So, it's the hands and feet will feel really cold. Um really cold. Um But in terms of But in terms of If you're going to spend a long time in If you're going to spend a long time in the cold, maybe 10 minutes or, you know, the cold, maybe 10 minutes or, you know, 5 10 minutes, you start to drop your 5 10 minutes, you start to drop your core body temperature. Now, there's core body temperature. Now, there's positives for that as well. Cuz there's positives for that as well. Cuz there's a training in that. Um you're

a training in that. Um you're stimulating your own metabolism to then stimulating your own metabolism to then generate heat. generate heat. It's a different effect than just a It's a different effect than just a short-term cold of snap, you know, short-term cold of snap, you know, snapping your blood vessels closed. So, snapping your blood vessels closed. So, that's the immediate effect. Your blood that's the immediate effect. Your blood vessels snap shut. You have the vessels snap shut. You have the psychological effect of of, you know, psychological effect of of, you know, I've gone into the cold, and you have to I've gone into the cold, and you have to overcome that initial overcome that initial that that type of insulation that the that that type of insulation that the cold causes. And controlling your breath cold causes. And controlling your breath is is actually a really valuable thing is is actually a really valuable thing that the cold a gift that the cold can that the cold a gift that the cold can give you. give you. Cuz you're overcoming anxiety and and Cuz you're overcoming anxiety and and the body chemistry of trauma and and the body chemistry of trauma and and if you've had trauma in the past, you if you've had trauma in the past, you can relive that in a very controlled can relive that in a very controlled situation. situation. So, that's great. But if you're going to So, that's great. But if you're going to go in a long time in the cold, it's a go in a long time in the cold, it's a different sort of training, and you'll different sort of training, and you'll find that your find that your you know, after 10 minutes, you you you know, after 10 minutes, you you won't think it straight. You'll you'll won't think it straight. You'll you'll Um brain takes about 25% of your oxygen. Um brain takes about 25% of your oxygen. You know, just to have your monkey mind You know, just to have your monkey mind working. working. Right. When your body's temperature Right. When your body's temperature starts to drop, okay, your your body to

starts to drop, okay, your your body to save its core temperature will first save its core temperature will first shut down your periphery. So, your hands shut down your periphery. So, your hands and your feet and then your limbs will and your feet and then your limbs will go quite cold, and then your brain will go quite cold, and then your brain will turn itself off because it wants to keep turn itself off because it wants to keep that energy for your heart and your, you that energy for your heart and your, you know, and your vital organs. So, it's know, and your vital organs. So, it's actually a forced meditation. actually a forced meditation. So, when you go into the cold and you're So, when you go into the cold and you're actually getting quite cold, actually getting quite cold, you'll find that your brain can be quite you'll find that your brain can be quite still. You can be in a nice quiet quiet still. You can be in a nice quiet quiet space. And um space. And um we did some research. One of my PhD we did some research. One of my PhD students is Lauren Burns, who won the students is Lauren Burns, who won the the gold medal for taekwondo um in the the gold medal for taekwondo um in the Sydney Olympics, and she's also a Sydney Olympics, and she's also a naturopath nutritionist. And we were um naturopath nutritionist. And we were um well, she did she spent 5 years doing well, she did she spent 5 years doing research on world champion athletes. So, research on world champion athletes. So, we or she interviewed a whole range of we or she interviewed a whole range of athletes, and to be on her interview athletes, and to be on her interview list, you had to be a world champion for list, you had to be a world champion for multiple years. Wow. And the question multiple years. Wow. And the question was, how do you stay at the top of your was, how do you stay at the top of your game in in a world champion? What, you game in in a world champion? What, you know, what do you eat? What do you know, what do you eat? What do you think? You know, what do you do? So, all think? You know, what do you do? So, all these aspects of lifestyle.

these aspects of lifestyle. And, you know, the psychological aspect And, you know, the psychological aspect was really important. That's been quite was really important. That's been quite known, but the things that came out in known, but the things that came out in her research that wasn't that well her research that wasn't that well discussed or known. One was they had a discussed or known. One was they had a really strong friendship group. really strong friendship group. So, they had a social connection, and So, they had a social connection, and friendships were really important to be friendships were really important to be able to let your hair down and not feel, able to let your hair down and not feel, you know, fully yourself, and just to be you know, fully yourself, and just to be yourself. yourself. Cuz otherwise, you're this world Cuz otherwise, you're this world champion, and the the pressures of champion, and the the pressures of competing and making the team or not competing and making the team or not making the team, and all these other making the team, and all these other things can happen, but just things can happen, but just you can be a human being, be yourself. you can be a human being, be yourself. So, that was really important. But the So, that was really important. But the other thing was that they all did ice other thing was that they all did ice bathing. Wow. And we didn't expect that. bathing. Wow. And we didn't expect that. And when we asked them about it, they And when we asked them about it, they said they were introduced to ice bathing said they were introduced to ice bathing for recovery because of, you know, after for recovery because of, you know, after training, they were told it was good for training, they were told it was good for recovery. But that they felt the benefit recovery. But that they felt the benefit they got from it, and the reason why they got from it, and the reason why they kept on doing it was for the they kept on doing it was for the mindfulness it gave them. mindfulness it gave them. Wow. Because when they're in the ice Wow. Because when they're in the ice bath, you're just in the ice bath. bath, you're just in the ice bath. They're not worrying about the They're not worrying about the competition or what's happening competition or what's happening tomorrow. It's a forced meditation. And tomorrow. It's a forced meditation. And they they felt the mental health they they felt the mental health benefits were

benefits were superior than just the recovery benefits superior than just the recovery benefits or the physical benefits. Amazing. So, or the physical benefits. Amazing. So, yeah, when you're in an ice bath and and yeah, when you're in an ice bath and and really cold, you do you get this forced really cold, you do you get this forced mindfulness. Your brain sort of shuts mindfulness. Your brain sort of shuts down, and you're forced to just be in down, and you're forced to just be in the moment. the moment. So, that's that's the benefit of that. So, that's that's the benefit of that. So, the timing of of the cold, you know, So, the timing of of the cold, you know, I I if you're if you're doing hot cold, if you're if you're doing hot cold, rinse and cold, rest, repeat, you know, rinse and cold, rest, repeat, you know, you got a minute or two's fine. If you you got a minute or two's fine. If you want to really push the cold, again, want to really push the cold, again, know your limits. So, know your limits. So, um and, you know, cold is a um and, you know, cold is a life-threatening situation. life-threatening situation. However, you can have, you know, a hot However, you can have, you know, a hot tub or a sauna there. So, you know, tub or a sauna there. So, you know, you're in control of it. So, you can you're in control of it. So, you can practice practice going to the edge of your physiology, to going to the edge of your physiology, to the extremes of your of your the extremes of your of your body's ability to cope, and literally body's ability to cope, and literally put yourself in a life-threatening put yourself in a life-threatening situation, situation, and then being in control of it. And and then being in control of it. And that's that's real mastery over your that's that's real mastery over your body. And people like Wim Hof, you know, body. And people like Wim Hof, you know, able to, you know, really master their able to, you know, really master their physiology in that way. physiology in that way. So, yeah, but in the protocol, a couple

So, yeah, but in the protocol, a couple of minutes, and and you've achieved it. of minutes, and and you've achieved it. You've you've got the vasoconstriction, You've you've got the vasoconstriction, you've flushed your organs, you've flushed your organs, and then you're ready to rest. And when and then you're ready to rest. And when you're resting, then that core heat that you're resting, then that core heat that you've generated can then start to go you've generated can then start to go back through your body, and that's when back through your body, and that's when you find that balance. you find that balance. When your blood vessels are, you know, When your blood vessels are, you know, it's like the yogi. You've done it's like the yogi. You've done you know, yoga stretching, and then the you know, yoga stretching, and then the shavasana, the relaxation at the end of shavasana, the relaxation at the end of the yoga class, you feel much more the yoga class, you feel much more relaxed than if you just went into relaxed than if you just went into relaxation at the start. Which is the relaxation at the start. Which is the same with your body. Now, you open your same with your body. Now, you open your blood vessels as open as they can, you blood vessels as open as they can, you shut them down, and they go down shut them down, and they go down tightly, and then you find that balance tightly, and then you find that balance point in between. And that balance point point in between. And that balance point will be more profound having done that will be more profound having done that exercise. Got you. exercise. Got you. Amazing. Amazing. Oh, that doesn't sound too hot. Oh, that doesn't sound too hot. It's actually It's actually really It's actually It's actually really simple. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then after simple. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then after that, you would potentially repeat the that, you would potentially repeat the cycle. cycle. And then and then it's good to repeat And then and then it's good to repeat it. And I like to do, if I can, three it. And I like to do, if I can, three rounds.

rounds. And you'll find the second round goes And you'll find the second round goes quicker. quicker. Cuz your body's already primed, and, you Cuz your body's already primed, and, you know, you've you will start to sweat. Um know, you've you will start to sweat. Um usually I'll start to sweat quicker if usually I'll start to sweat quicker if you on the second round. you on the second round. And it it When you do one round, I mean, And it it When you do one round, I mean, it's really nice, and then you get that it's really nice, and then you get that relaxation. relaxation. And it's almost you're practicing going And it's almost you're practicing going from being relaxed to stressed, and then from being relaxed to stressed, and then relaxed. So, you're training your body relaxed. So, you're training your body to find balance. You're training your to find balance. You're training your body to and your mind because, you know, body to and your mind because, you know, you And it actually takes a mental you And it actually takes a mental effort to do it. Cuz when you're in that effort to do it. Cuz when you're in that relaxation, do I really want to do it relaxation, do I really want to do it again? Or you're in the hot, do I really again? Or you're in the hot, do I really want to go into the cold? want to go into the cold? So, there's a mental hurdle at each time So, there's a mental hurdle at each time that you have to overcome. that you have to overcome. So, this is great practice for life So, this is great practice for life because life will always throw because life will always throw uncomfortable situations at you. And uncomfortable situations at you. And it's how how do we navigate that? How it's how how do we navigate that? How how prepared are we to be comfortable in how prepared are we to be comfortable in an uncomfortable situation? And this is an uncomfortable situation? And this is just a you know, a practice that you can just a you know, a practice that you can do that's really relaxing, enjoyable, do that's really relaxing, enjoyable, it's fun. Um it's healthy on so many

it's fun. Um it's healthy on so many levels. levels. And it's just amazing life training. And And it's just amazing life training. And it's what what You know, there's always it's what what You know, there's always research to say, you know, if you have research to say, you know, if you have regular sauna bathing, you'll have less regular sauna bathing, you'll have less heart attack, less stroke, less heart attack, less stroke, less Alzheimer's disease, less respiratory Alzheimer's disease, less respiratory infections, less pneumonia, on and on, infections, less pneumonia, on and on, less death from all causes. Wow. So, less death from all causes. Wow. So, this is a really powerful practice. Now, this is a really powerful practice. Now, it stops you dying. it stops you dying. It's great, huh? It's great, huh? And but the thing is, okay, to stop you And but the thing is, okay, to stop you dying, you want to enjoy living. Yeah. dying, you want to enjoy living. Yeah. So, this is a way you can actually enjoy So, this is a way you can actually enjoy your living and also prolong your life. your living and also prolong your life. So, this is not a painful practice that So, this is not a painful practice that I okay, I have to do this, and it's I'm I okay, I have to do this, and it's I'm just, you know, survive through it cuz just, you know, survive through it cuz I'm going to live so I'll live longer. I'm going to live so I'll live longer. No, this is something I I really enjoy No, this is something I I really enjoy to do. to do. Um I I take time for myself. I do it Um I I take time for myself. I do it with with friends. Um with with friends. Um you know, I I often I have I have at you know, I I often I have I have at home extreme wellness parties. We come home extreme wellness parties. We come over, we do hot, we do cold, and we, you over, we do hot, we do cold, and we, you know, make tonics, and you know, and you know, make tonics, and you know, and you know, it's an enjoyable thing. Yeah. know, it's an enjoyable thing. Yeah. It's so much easier to comply with your It's so much easier to comply with your practice or whatever it is, you know, um practice or whatever it is, you know, um than trying to push yourself all the

than trying to push yourself all the time in such such a situation. time in such such a situation. Yeah. So, I think fun fun is really Yeah. So, I think fun fun is really important. You want to enjoy it. Yeah. important. You want to enjoy it. Yeah. And and mind you, it takes time. You And and mind you, it takes time. You need to make time for it as well. Yeah. need to make time for it as well. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's important to hear, Yeah, I think that's important to hear, Alfons, because um Alfons, because um you know, I guess you know, I guess the time that we live in, you know, the time that we live in, you know, people try to cram in There's the people try to cram in There's the tendency to to put a lot of different tendency to to put a lot of different things into your day and and try to get things into your day and and try to get more done, but I think we sometimes more done, but I think we sometimes forget to um forget to um to get the quality out of out of a to get the quality out of out of a practice. You know, maybe it's better to practice. You know, maybe it's better to do do two things well than five things two things well than five things and push through it. Absolutely. And and and push through it. Absolutely. And and I think just actively doing nothing is I think just actively doing nothing is not respected. So, often people will be not respected. So, often people will be in their relaxation room, but you're in their relaxation room, but you're still they'll be on their phones. And still they'll be on their phones. And they're they're not doing nothing. They're actively not doing nothing. They're actively their mind is active. their mind is active. So, you know, I would suggest if you're So, you know, I would suggest if you're going to do the, you know, in the rest going to do the, you know, in the rest period, when you're actively doing period, when you're actively doing nothing, you're not on your phone. nothing, you're not on your phone. You're just having a break. But what You're just having a break. But what will happen is if you do that for, you will happen is if you do that for, you know, 15 minutes and have that

know, 15 minutes and have that relaxation, when you're on your phone relaxation, when you're on your phone and doing something, you'll be much more and doing something, you'll be much more productive. productive. You you know, you're much more You you know, you're much more productive in your life when you can productive in your life when you can go from that stillest point. You find go from that stillest point. You find the still point with your body and your the still point with your body and your mind, and then when you're active, mind, and then when you're active, you've got your whole body and your you've got your whole body and your whole mind to direct to whatever you whole mind to direct to whatever you need to do. need to do. So, yeah, I suggest don't go on your So, yeah, I suggest don't go on your phone in that relaxation. Treat that as phone in that relaxation. Treat that as a a sacred time of how how comfortable a a sacred time of how how comfortable can I be without, you know, going on my can I be without, you know, going on my phone and checking my profile or phone and checking my profile or whatever people do. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. whatever people do. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that certainly sounds like you Yeah, that certainly sounds like you give commission permission to that. And give commission permission to that. And I love that, you know, putting really a I love that, you know, putting really a focus on that and and just being. Can I focus on that and and just being. Can I just check with you just check with you pick up on a couple of things? You know, pick up on a couple of things? You know, heat shock proteins is something that's heat shock proteins is something that's talked about a lot, and and I think it talked about a lot, and and I think it goes either way like, you know, extreme goes either way like, you know, extreme cold or cold, whatever extreme means, cold or cold, whatever extreme means, and and and hot. Would you mind talking and and and hot. Would you mind talking a little bit about it because I think it a little bit about it because I think it it comes more and more into the it comes more and more into the mainstream, but when you talk about mainstream, but when you talk about these athletes these athletes the recovery partly is certainly due due

the recovery partly is certainly due due to the the the the the creation of these to the the the the the creation of these these proteins while you're in extreme these proteins while you're in extreme lots of lots of things with the recovery. The heat shock things with the recovery. The heat shock protein that um they call them chaperone protein that um they call them chaperone proteins. proteins. And they're basically And they're basically your biochemical thermoregulation. your biochemical thermoregulation. Mhm. Mhm. So, you know I'm saying how all life has So, you know I'm saying how all life has to live within a um to live within a um you know, narrow temperature window. And you know, narrow temperature window. And as mammals and as humans, we have the as mammals and as humans, we have the most sophisticated thermoregulation than most sophisticated thermoregulation than any other organism. Cuz not only do we any other organism. Cuz not only do we have all the basic mechanisms of um have all the basic mechanisms of um directing blood flow and directing blood flow and um um you know, controlling metabolic heat, you know, controlling metabolic heat, you know, cuz we're mammals and we can you know, cuz we're mammals and we can generate heat. But we can also put on an generate heat. But we can also put on an air conditioner put on a clothes, you air conditioner put on a clothes, you know, know, anticipate, read the weather pattern, anticipate, read the weather pattern, so we have very sophisticated so we have very sophisticated thermoregulation. But at the thermoregulation. But at the physiological level, dive down into the physiological level, dive down into the biochemical level biochemical level um your proteins get stressed by hot and um your proteins get stressed by hot and cold.

cold. And they can miss misform and and go out And they can miss misform and and go out of shape. And these heat shock proteins of shape. And these heat shock proteins are there to are there to to protect your other enzymes and other to protect your other enzymes and other proteins from the effects of extremes of proteins from the effects of extremes of temperature. temperature. That's the that's the best way to think That's the that's the best way to think about them. So, they're they're a about them. So, they're they're a biochemical biochemical um um thermoregulatory role to protect your thermoregulatory role to protect your your essential protein. And proteins you your essential protein. And proteins you know, that make up most of your um body, know, that make up most of your um body, but the enzymes that are the functioning but the enzymes that are the functioning part of your body require a very special part of your body require a very special folding and um folding and um configuration to be active. configuration to be active. And the heat can disturb that because And the heat can disturb that because when everything heats up that it moves when everything heats up that it moves more more and cold can also disturb that because and cold can also disturb that because of the coldness you know, of the coldness you know, they they reduce that movement. So, that they they reduce that movement. So, that the chaperone proteins, the heat shock the chaperone proteins, the heat shock proteins um this is at least my proteins um this is at least my understanding is they understanding is they um protect um protect um your other sort of functional enzymes um your other sort of functional enzymes and proteins from the the extremes of

and proteins from the the extremes of temperature. temperature. And again, it's And again, it's building building up that practice. So, if if you don't go up that practice. So, if if you don't go to the extremes of temperature, you down to the extremes of temperature, you down regulate those proteins. So, they're not regulate those proteins. So, they're not as available. Just like if you don't as available. Just like if you don't practice going hot and cold and your practice going hot and cold and your blood vessels don't practice going open blood vessels don't practice going open and closed, then they're not that able and closed, then they're not that able to do it in you know, when you need to. to do it in you know, when you need to. So, by practicing that, you're up So, by practicing that, you're up regulating these proteins and you're regulating these proteins and you're protecting the other proteins. And also protecting the other proteins. And also there's a process of apoptosis and um there's a process of apoptosis and um autophagy. autophagy. So, this is a process of autophagy is So, this is a process of autophagy is recycling cellular recycling cellular material. So, if you have a protein that material. So, if you have a protein that is misfolded, it's like it's past its is misfolded, it's like it's past its use by date use by date then these pro other proteins come in then these pro other proteins come in and say, "Okay, maybe we can repair you, and say, "Okay, maybe we can repair you, but maybe we can't. Maybe we just have but maybe we can't. Maybe we just have to break you down and rebuild you." to break you down and rebuild you." And that's autophagy. So, you're And that's autophagy. So, you're taking the taking the proteins that are past their use by proteins that are past their use by date, rebuilding them, and then making

date, rebuilding them, and then making new ones. And apoptosis is doing that new ones. And apoptosis is doing that with cells. The cells that are old and with cells. The cells that are old and past their use by date and maybe they're past their use by date and maybe they're not as functioning as well, well, your not as functioning as well, well, your body makes an assessment, you know, can body makes an assessment, you know, can can we sort of repair that cell? No, can we sort of repair that cell? No, it's you know, it's dysfunctional. We're it's you know, it's dysfunctional. We're going to that cell's going to die, going to that cell's going to die, program cell death, and we're going to program cell death, and we're going to have a new cell to replace it. have a new cell to replace it. So, is it the So, is it the the heat shock proteins that are more the heat shock proteins that are more around because of the heat and cold that around because of the heat and cold that that is the benefit over just doing that is the benefit over just doing nothing like like heat treatments or is nothing like like heat treatments or is it the additional stress on all the it the additional stress on all the other enzymes and proteins and there's other enzymes and proteins and there's more damage, therefore more of the heat more damage, therefore more of the heat shocks are created and therefore maybe shocks are created and therefore maybe it's a chicken and egg. it's a chicken and egg. Okay. Okay. Well, what and I don't I'm not sure the Well, what and I don't I'm not sure the answer to that, but what I would suggest answer to that, but what I would suggest is that the more you're exposing is that the more you're exposing yourself to those extremes, they're yourself to those extremes, they're going to up regulate those proteins. going to up regulate those proteins. You know, cuz they're still protein and You know, cuz they're still protein and um the more you use proteins, they get um the more you use proteins, they get up regulated, so you get more messenger

up regulated, so you get more messenger RNA and you know, the DNA gets RNA and you know, the DNA gets transcribed, so you can up regulate transcribed, so you can up regulate that. And if if you've got more of those that. And if if you've got more of those proteins available, then proteins available, then you're protected. You've got more you're protected. You've got more protection. Whereas if you're living protection. Whereas if you're living your whole life in the comfort zone your whole life in the comfort zone you're not you know, you're always you're not you know, you're always always comfortable, then you're not always comfortable, then you're not going to have that same um degree of of going to have that same um degree of of protection. That makes a lot of sense protection. That makes a lot of sense because I think we because I think we you know, let's say we we live a really you know, let's say we we live a really uh uh really cushioned life in terms of really cushioned life in terms of temperature, in terms of what our temperature, in terms of what our day-to-day looks like. But every now and day-to-day looks like. But every now and then there's a cold snap, there's I then there's a cold snap, there's I forgot my T-shirt, sorry, or you know, forgot my T-shirt, sorry, or you know, another layer and therefore I'm really another layer and therefore I'm really cold. cold. If my body is not used to also deal with If my body is not used to also deal with more extremes, that has a quite a quick more extremes, that has a quite a quick negative impact on me, I suppose. negative impact on me, I suppose. Whereas if if my body is actually used Whereas if if my body is actually used to that type of um extremes, when it to that type of um extremes, when it then happens then happens you know, because of things that happen, you know, because of things that happen, you know, in in my day-to-day life, then you know, in in my day-to-day life, then it's prepped for that, right? Yeah, and

it's prepped for that, right? Yeah, and I think it's there's a translation that I think it's there's a translation that happens from your biochemistry to your happens from your biochemistry to your physiology to your psychology. physiology to your psychology. So, it comes from the you know, the So, it comes from the you know, the cells all the way up. cells all the way up. So, just when you're exercising your So, just when you're exercising your biochemistry, that makes your physiology biochemistry, that makes your physiology work better, you know, your blood and work better, you know, your blood and your organs. And that makes your your organs. And that makes your psychology work better. So, even when psychology work better. So, even when you have a psychological stress, you're you have a psychological stress, you're better able to cope with it. better able to cope with it. Cuz you've got this depth of balance and Cuz you've got this depth of balance and depth of homeostasis you can draw from. depth of homeostasis you can draw from. So, it actually gives you you know, So, it actually gives you you know, mental health benefits as well as the mental health benefits as well as the the physical and biochemical benefits. the physical and biochemical benefits. Awesome. That's fantastic. Thanks for Awesome. That's fantastic. Thanks for that. that. Look, I have another thing that you Look, I have another thing that you mentioned a couple of times, mentioned a couple of times, vasodilation. And we talk sometimes on vasodilation. And we talk sometimes on this podcast about it, but you know, this podcast about it, but you know, there's so many different angles to it. there's so many different angles to it. Um Um can you explain a little bit what that can you explain a little bit what that is, how infrared saunas or normal is, how infrared saunas or normal saunas, how that might differ, how it saunas, how that might differ, how it happens or not, and and how how cold happens or not, and and how how cold then comes into place to actually then comes into place to actually clamp it down again and and and you clamp it down again and and and you know, reduce the dilation. Well, you

know, reduce the dilation. Well, you know, I said that you know, water know, I said that you know, water conducts heat 25 times more than air. conducts heat 25 times more than air. And the way your body controls its And the way your body controls its temperature is you know, moving water temperature is you know, moving water around, which is mostly in your blood. around, which is mostly in your blood. So, the blood flow is one of the ways So, the blood flow is one of the ways you thermoregulate. you thermoregulate. And where the blood is close to the And where the blood is close to the surface is you know, the pulse points, surface is you know, the pulse points, that's where you radiate a lot of heat. that's where you radiate a lot of heat. So, you know, in your head you're saying So, you know, in your head you're saying that if you're cold, put on a hat that if you're cold, put on a hat because you radiate a lot of heat from because you radiate a lot of heat from your head. Also your legs. There's not a your head. Also your legs. There's not a lot of um especially your lower legs, lot of um especially your lower legs, there's not a lot of um fat around your there's not a lot of um fat around your your shins and thighs. your shins and thighs. So, you can actually with a hot um foot So, you can actually with a hot um foot bath um you know, regulate your bath um you know, regulate your temperature or a cold foot bath to do temperature or a cold foot bath to do hot and cold. So, even if So, that's hot and cold. So, even if So, that's actually we didn't talk about that, but actually we didn't talk about that, but if you just want to do hot um cold you if you just want to do hot um cold you don't have to do your whole body. You don't have to do your whole body. You could just do cold foot bath. And you could just do cold foot bath. And you still get that benefit because the blood still get that benefit because the blood is going through there, it's very close is going through there, it's very close to the surface. And the blood gets to the surface. And the blood gets chilled when it goes through your legs. chilled when it goes through your legs. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, my That makes a lot of sense. Actually, my my my gran would always say, you know,

my my gran would always say, you know, being a very different generation and being a very different generation and you normally don't strip off that that you normally don't strip off that that quickly in her generation at least she quickly in her generation at least she was earlier 1930s no, 20s she was born. was earlier 1930s no, 20s she was born. Um it was all about just uh putting the Um it was all about just uh putting the wrist under cold Yeah, so you can do it wrist under cold Yeah, so you can do it on pulse points. Um on pulse points. Um and and actually, when you're when you're actually, when you're when you're sleeping, you actually fall asleep as sleeping, you actually fall asleep as your body temperature is dropping. your body temperature is dropping. So, it's really hard to fall asleep with So, it's really hard to fall asleep with cold legs, cold feet. So, even just a a cold legs, cold feet. So, even just a a warm foot bath or you know, heating your warm foot bath or you know, heating your body up before you go to bed um helps body up before you go to bed um helps with sleep cuz as you it's you have to with sleep cuz as you it's you have to be warm before your temperature can drop be warm before your temperature can drop and as your temperature is dropping, and as your temperature is dropping, that's when you actually fall asleep. that's when you actually fall asleep. So, yeah, it's um So, yeah, it's um you know, vasodilation, vasoconstriction you know, vasodilation, vasoconstriction is is um the way your body controls um the way your body controls temperature. temperature. And And you've got 100,000 km roughly of blood you've got 100,000 km roughly of blood of blood vessels. of blood vessels. You know, going through everywhere. And You know, going through everywhere. And those blood vessels are aligned by those blood vessels are aligned by smooth muscle that's controlled by your smooth muscle that's controlled by your autonomic nervous system. autonomic nervous system. So, the sympathetic nervous system will

So, the sympathetic nervous system will open up some muscles and and close open up some muscles and and close others. others. So, when you're in fight or flight, you So, when you're in fight or flight, you get adrenaline response. So, the blood, get adrenaline response. So, the blood, you know, rushes, you know, you know, rushes, you know, um to your muscles and and your um to your muscles and and your contract your muscles, your eyes contract your muscles, your eyes are wide open and are wide open and and it actually goes away from your and it actually goes away from your core. So, you shut down digestion, you core. So, you shut down digestion, you shut down healing, you shut down your shut down healing, you shut down your immune system. immune system. You know, when you're in in a fight and You know, when you're in in a fight and flight uh sympathetic nervous system. flight uh sympathetic nervous system. So, that's due to how where the blood So, that's due to how where the blood blood is flowing. To me, that was a blood is flowing. To me, that was a really important point that you made. really important point that you made. So, So, it's it's not like our blood blood it's it's not like our blood blood vessels are actually like like a hose vessels are actually like like a hose and and the the heart is pumping through and and the the heart is pumping through all of it because that always got in my all of it because that always got in my mind, how can that even be because it mind, how can that even be because it from a physical point of view it doesn't from a physical point of view it doesn't make sense that this drives it. So, make sense that this drives it. So, there's actually it's clear now to to us there's actually it's clear now to to us that there are actually muscles that that there are actually muscles that that line the our blood vessels to move that line the our blood vessels to move blood around. And very sophisticated. blood around. And very sophisticated. Wow. You know, really sophisticated. So, Wow. You know, really sophisticated. So, you could I mean, yogis can control, you

you could I mean, yogis can control, you know, blood to here to there at know, blood to here to there at different parts of their body different parts of their body differentially. But even without that differentially. But even without that mental control, your autonomic nervous mental control, your autonomic nervous system controls very fine tune um where system controls very fine tune um where the blood's going to go. And and that's the blood's going to go. And and that's even related to our psychology. So, you even related to our psychology. So, you know, when you blush, you know, you know, when you blush, you know, you you're embarrassed. This is blood you're embarrassed. This is blood flowing to your cheeks. This is all flowing to your cheeks. This is all blood blood control. blood blood control. And and due to vasodilation, And and due to vasodilation, vasoconstriction. So, healing, I mean, vasoconstriction. So, healing, I mean, you need blood to get to somewhere you need blood to get to somewhere that's that's that's that's to heal it. And if you have poor to heal it. And if you have poor circulation, that's when you get chronic circulation, that's when you get chronic ulcers and you know, all these sort of ulcers and you know, all these sort of problems. Um and very often that's problems. Um and very often that's around the ankles cuz the to circulate around the ankles cuz the to circulate the blood from all the way down there up the blood from all the way down there up to your heart can take you know, it's to your heart can take you know, it's pushing against gravity. pushing against gravity. And if you have, you know, problems of And if you have, you know, problems of of blood circulation in your feet, then of blood circulation in your feet, then you don't need you know, a little nick you don't need you know, a little nick or a burn or a you know, hangnail can or a burn or a you know, hangnail can become infected and your body can't get become infected and your body can't get there to heal it. So, there to heal it. So, um having good vasodilation,

um having good vasodilation, vasoconstriction, you know, control over vasoconstriction, you know, control over your blood supply through all of your your blood supply through all of your body is really important for your body is really important for your health. health. And um And um you can control it by the external you can control it by the external environment. environment. Uh I mean, it's out of our control Uh I mean, it's out of our control normally and so I said, you know, when normally and so I said, you know, when you're sympathetic, it can go to your you're sympathetic, it can go to your muscles and you know, your eyes and your muscles and you know, your eyes and your brain. In parasympathetic, when you're brain. In parasympathetic, when you're um you know, rest and digest, it goes to um you know, rest and digest, it goes to your internal organs and that's when your internal organs and that's when you're sleepy and and the and the blood you're sleepy and and the and the blood goes within. goes within. But that's not under your control But that's not under your control normally. normally. But if you go into a heat, into a sauna, But if you go into a heat, into a sauna, you know, you're going to have you know, you're going to have vasodilate cuz for temperature vasodilate cuz for temperature regulation, you push the blood to the regulation, you push the blood to the surface. That's why you feel flushed and surface. That's why you feel flushed and and your your skin goes red. and your your skin goes red. And then And then you know, sweating will you know, you know, sweating will you know, reduce your temperature. But that reduce your temperature. But that vasodilation will happen generally all vasodilation will happen generally all over the body. over the body. And then you go into the cold and you And then you go into the cold and you get this vasoconstriction. get this vasoconstriction. And that vasoconstriction, as I was And that vasoconstriction, as I was saying before, is mainly in the saying before, is mainly in the periphery periphery cuz you're shutting down, you don't want cuz you're shutting down, you don't want to lose heat now from your your feet and

to lose heat now from your your feet and your hands and and um your pulse points. your hands and and um your pulse points. And that And that blood then goes into your internal blood then goes into your internal organs. organs. And then you're nourishing all your And then you're nourishing all your internal organs and you're also internal organs and you're also filtering all that blood. filtering all that blood. So, there's a detoxification effect, So, there's a detoxification effect, there's a nourishing of your internal there's a nourishing of your internal organ effect. And it's through organ effect. And it's through manipulating external environment that manipulating external environment that you can push blood around. you can push blood around. And um I mean, we do that, you know, if And um I mean, we do that, you know, if you're want to heal something and it's you're want to heal something and it's like you often you put a hot poultice on like you often you put a hot poultice on it or even a hot water bottle on your it or even a hot water bottle on your stomach. That just pushes that moves the stomach. That just pushes that moves the blood to there, opens up those blood blood to there, opens up those blood vessels and directs your body's vessels and directs your body's attention and the blood to that just attention and the blood to that just from the heat of the poultice or the hot from the heat of the poultice or the hot water bottle, etc. water bottle, etc. Right. So, going into a sauna and ice Right. So, going into a sauna and ice bath does exactly that. Like in the bath does exactly that. Like in the sauna, it basically brings the sauna, it basically brings the the blood all to the surface and the blood all to the surface and probably also just have much more probably also just have much more dynamic flow in there because of it, dynamic flow in there because of it, huh? Well, it is and that that dynamic huh? Well, it is and that that dynamic flow means your heart is pumping more. flow means your heart is pumping more. Yes. So, it's actually really great for

Yes. So, it's actually really great for your cardiovascular system and and um your cardiovascular system and and um using saunas for uh using saunas for uh heart failure is is really well heart failure is is really well documented. Oh. And and very often documented. Oh. And and very often people with heart conditions find it people with heart conditions find it hard to actively exercise cuz often they hard to actively exercise cuz often they have arthritis, other issues as well. have arthritis, other issues as well. But in a sauna, it's a way you can But in a sauna, it's a way you can actually sit comfortably and give your actually sit comfortably and give your heart a good workout. heart a good workout. So, that's actually really valuable for So, that's actually really valuable for your heart and it's pushing against less your heart and it's pushing against less resistance because all your blood resistance because all your blood vessels are open. So, the heart can pump vessels are open. So, the heart can pump harder and it's not it's not getting the harder and it's not it's not getting the squeeze back from the blood vessels that squeeze back from the blood vessels that are that are contracted. They're they're are that are contracted. They're they're all open. all open. It's called So, you get a lower total It's called So, you get a lower total peripheral resistance and more cardiac peripheral resistance and more cardiac output. So, that's great for your output. So, that's great for your cardiovascular system. Must be cardiovascular system. Must be especially when you um as one gets especially when you um as one gets older, I hear you know, older, I hear you know, you have all sorts of of clogging up of you have all sorts of of clogging up of of of your vessels as well. For that, it would your vessels as well. For that, it would help a lot. help a lot. Well, vascular disease before about 2018 Well, vascular disease before about 2018 was the biggest killer, you know, in the was the biggest killer, you know, in the Western world. I think cancer took over

Western world. I think cancer took over in 2018, but it's still the second in 2018, but it's still the second biggest killer. So, that's you know, biggest killer. So, that's you know, heart attack and stroke. And then you heart attack and stroke. And then you know, high blood pressure and all the know, high blood pressure and all the things associated with that. So, it's things associated with that. So, it's still you know, a massive cause of still you know, a massive cause of morbidity and mortality. morbidity and mortality. So, to exercise your blood vessels is So, to exercise your blood vessels is you know, a really good way to prevent you know, a really good way to prevent you know, heart attack, stroke and all you know, heart attack, stroke and all these other conditions. And and the data these other conditions. And and the data shows that that people who regularly shows that that people who regularly sauna bathe have less heart attack, less sauna bathe have less heart attack, less stroke, but less a whole range of other stroke, but less a whole range of other conditions including um dementia and conditions including um dementia and pneumonia and other conditions pneumonia and other conditions because their body's been nourished. because their body's been nourished. You're you're getting you know, blood You're you're getting you know, blood going to all the places it needs to and going to all the places it needs to and then um those blood vessels are uh are then um those blood vessels are uh are are getting a workout. That's like are getting a workout. That's like like you know, when when you look at the like you know, when when you look at the the global scale, often it's actually the global scale, often it's actually not that there's not enough supply, but not that there's not enough supply, but it's it's more like the distribution of it's it's more like the distribution of it. It's exactly like it. Like I would it. It's exactly like it. Like I would probably think like just because you you probably think like just because you you might be old or sick, doesn't mean that might be old or sick, doesn't mean that you don't get all the nutrients into you don't get all the nutrients into your body, but where does it go from? your body, but where does it go from? issue.

issue. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And and you know, the those blood And and you know, the those blood vessels get clogged up and and the vessels get clogged up and and the circulation and circulation and a lot of you know, elderly people, a lot of you know, elderly people, especially people who are diabetic or especially people who are diabetic or you know, you know, have issues with the vascular system and have issues with the vascular system and overweight, um the blood getting from overweight, um the blood getting from their legs upwards can be an issue. their legs upwards can be an issue. And that their legs aren't nourished and And that their legs aren't nourished and if the the tissue doesn't have enough if the the tissue doesn't have enough blood supply, it can break down, it blood supply, it can break down, it can't heal if it's injured and that's can't heal if it's injured and that's when you you start to get problems. And when you you start to get problems. And then you can have you know, varicose then you can have you know, varicose veins and um you know, um DVTs and blood veins and um you know, um DVTs and blood clots and all these sort of issues. clots and all these sort of issues. So, having your blood flushed through So, having your blood flushed through your body and you know, clean everything your body and you know, clean everything out and and nourish your body, I mean, out and and nourish your body, I mean, blood is the way that nourishment gets blood is the way that nourishment gets to all your cells. This is a really to all your cells. This is a really powerful thing to do for your health. powerful thing to do for your health. Yeah. We found that people with Yeah. We found that people with arthritis, they often report back that arthritis, they often report back that the pain goes away and we believe that's the pain goes away and we believe that's because the the element P is flushed out because the the element P is flushed out that indicates pain. So, it's flushed that indicates pain. So, it's flushed away from that area. So, the discomfort away from that area. So, the discomfort is gone and and hopefully you know, more

is gone and and hopefully you know, more nourishment and and so on. nourishment and and so on. That's right. Directing blood to that That's right. Directing blood to that area would actually help. Yeah. So, it's area would actually help. Yeah. So, it's it's actually not really complex. Well, it's actually not really complex. Well, the end is all of what you just said is the end is all of what you just said is actually not that complex, but you know actually not that complex, but you know Yeah, but it took took us a while to Yeah, but it took took us a while to really figure it out, I guess. And if really figure it out, I guess. And if you think of blood as um I mean, it does you think of blood as um I mean, it does provide that nutrition and you know, provide that nutrition and you know, oxygen and and all that, oxygen and and all that, but it also provides thermoregulation but it also provides thermoregulation Mhm. for your whole body. Mhm. And Mhm. for your whole body. Mhm. And that's that's you know, really important that's that's you know, really important role of of blood that we don't often role of of blood that we don't often appreciate that that much. Yeah. appreciate that that much. Yeah. So, thinking actually about something So, thinking actually about something must be related and that's must be related and that's detoxification. So, when you have a detoxification. So, when you have a better flow, I would think that um cells better flow, I would think that um cells can discharge their waste products much can discharge their waste products much easier. Well, it or it would go easier. Well, it or it would go somewhere rather than staying locally in somewhere rather than staying locally in really slow flow, which I believe would really slow flow, which I believe would probably alter the pH and would be probably alter the pH and would be probably create all sorts of other probably create all sorts of other issues. So, um can you talk a little bit issues. So, um can you talk a little bit about detoxification because I think about detoxification because I think it's a huge it's it's a term that is

it's a huge it's it's a term that is used so much, but I think different used so much, but I think different people people see it from different angles, I suppose. see it from different angles, I suppose. Yeah, and and it's often a confused Yeah, and and it's often a confused term. I mean, in the medical like the term. I mean, in the medical like the strict Western medical term, strict Western medical term, detox means drug and alcohol detox. detox means drug and alcohol detox. They're not not doing environmental They're not not doing environmental chemicals, whereas in the sort of chemicals, whereas in the sort of complementary medicine, you know, complementary medicine, you know, natural medicine community, detox is natural medicine community, detox is about removing environmental toxins from about removing environmental toxins from the body. the body. And And if you think about if you think about you know, entropy is always there. you know, entropy is always there. You're always going to have waste You're always going to have waste products. You're always going to have products. You're always going to have you know, things that break down. So, you know, things that break down. So, even you know, carbon dioxide is a waste even you know, carbon dioxide is a waste product you have to detoxify cuz you product you have to detoxify cuz you know, from from metabolism. And your know, from from metabolism. And your your metabolic processes are always your metabolic processes are always making waste products that have to be making waste products that have to be processed and that's why you have a processed and that's why you have a liver and kidneys and and you know, your liver and kidneys and and you know, your bowel that processes that and and bowel that processes that and and flushes it through. flushes it through. So, the best thing to do to counteract So, the best thing to do to counteract entropy is to be an open system. entropy is to be an open system. Cuz entropy is about closed systems. And Cuz entropy is about closed systems. And to be alive, you have to be an open to be alive, you have to be an open system. You have to eat and excrete. You

system. You have to eat and excrete. You have to breathe in and breathe out. You have to breathe in and breathe out. You have to keep things flowing. have to keep things flowing. So, when when things stop flowing, that So, when when things stop flowing, that is when you start to have disease. is when you start to have disease. That's when you have when you have a That's when you have when you have a closed system and you have entropy. And closed system and you have entropy. And essentially, that's the essentially, that's the you know, it works in Western science, you know, it works in Western science, you know, in physics, they say, "Okay, you know, in physics, they say, "Okay, an isolated system has entropy. An open an isolated system has entropy. An open system can evolve and grow." But also in system can evolve and grow." But also in um Chinese medicine, they say it's the um Chinese medicine, they say it's the flow of chi that maintains your health flow of chi that maintains your health and if you have a blockage in the flow and if you have a blockage in the flow of chi, that is the of chi, that is the you know, that's the cause of illness. you know, that's the cause of illness. And you know, above the blockage, you And you know, above the blockage, you have excess. Below the blockage, you have excess. Below the blockage, you have deficiency and acupuncture and and have deficiency and acupuncture and and herbs are herbs are aiming to aiming to in enhance that flow of chi and and once in enhance that flow of chi and and once the chi is flowing well, then your body the chi is flowing well, then your body heals itself. heals itself. So, your body is a natural healing you So, your body is a natural healing you know, mechanism. It it's designed to to know, mechanism. It it's designed to to be well. But if you have a a blockage in be well. But if you have a a blockage in that energy flow or blood flow, that energy flow or blood flow, that that will then cause you know, a

that that will then cause you know, a build up and toxicity can build up. And build up and toxicity can build up. And then we have then we have a lot of things in our environment that a lot of things in our environment that stop that flow and also that build up stop that flow and also that build up toxicity. So, we're exposed to so many toxicity. So, we're exposed to so many um toxic in insults that our ancestors um toxic in insults that our ancestors never had. never had. So, we've got you know, poison in the So, we've got you know, poison in the water, in our food, in our air, you water, in our food, in our air, you know, we have you know, chlorine, know, we have you know, chlorine, fluoride and pesticides and you know, fluoride and pesticides and you know, all sorts of um plastics and all sorts of um plastics and xenoestrogens and endo- endocrine xenoestrogens and endo- endocrine disruptors and um volatile compounds and disruptors and um volatile compounds and you know, um you know, um diesel exhaust and solvents and heavy diesel exhaust and solvents and heavy metals and metals and There's quite a bit, hey? There's so There's quite a bit, hey? There's so many that we're exposed to on a daily many that we're exposed to on a daily basis. basis. Yet our bodies Yet our bodies while they're while they while they're while they haven't been exposed to them for that haven't been exposed to them for that long, it's long, it's a novel thing in the human population a novel thing in the human population and we see we see the effects of just and we see we see the effects of just the chronic disease that's prevalent now the chronic disease that's prevalent now and the um and the um reducing fertility. I think in the last reducing fertility. I think in the last 50 years, you know, male sperm counts 50 years, you know, male sperm counts have gone down by 70% around the world. have gone down by 70% around the world. Wow, 70, yeah? 70. Just from the you

Wow, 70, yeah? 70. Just from the you know, the xenoestrogens, plastics and know, the xenoestrogens, plastics and endocrine disruptors. endocrine disruptors. So, you want to be able to remove these So, you want to be able to remove these from your body effectively and the the from your body effectively and the the organs responsible for that mostly are organs responsible for that mostly are your liver and your kidneys. your liver and your kidneys. Um your sweat is to a some degree and I Um your sweat is to a some degree and I have a a student, Joy Hussain, who's one have a a student, Joy Hussain, who's one of my PhD students now. She's just of my PhD students now. She's just finishing. She's spent last five year or finishing. She's spent last five year or seven years, I think she's spent, um seven years, I think she's spent, um studying sauna. studying sauna. And we've just done a study looking at And we've just done a study looking at the results haven't been published yet, the results haven't been published yet, but looking at um but looking at um the the sweat that comes out when you sauna and sweat that comes out when you sauna and looking at things like you know, looking at things like you know, plastics and and plastics and and xenoestrogens and and pesticides, etc. xenoestrogens and and pesticides, etc. So that So that you know, we will be publishing that you know, we will be publishing that research soon. research soon. So, your your So, your your channels of elimination channels of elimination um I mean I I talk about your your um I mean I I talk about your your bladder, your bowel, your breath, your bladder, your bowel, your breath, your body, and your brain. body, and your brain. These are all the ways you can get rid These are all the ways you can get rid of toxicity. So your your bladder does

of toxicity. So your your bladder does it because keeping water flushed through it because keeping water flushed through your body and you you know, excreting your body and you you know, excreting through your kidneys. About 25% of all through your kidneys. About 25% of all your blood from every heartbeat goes your blood from every heartbeat goes through your kidneys. through your kidneys. Oh. So your kidneys are you know, Oh. So your kidneys are you know, they're busy. They're busy. Um they're busy. They're busy. Um So you know, after four heartbeats, all So you know, after four heartbeats, all your blood has gone through your your blood has gone through your kidneys. kidneys. So it's So that's they're constantly So it's So that's they're constantly flushing um flushing um Yeah, and processing weight metabolic Yeah, and processing weight metabolic waste products. Um your liver has is waste products. Um your liver has is this massive organ that that takes all this massive organ that that takes all the um the blood from your gut when when the um the blood from your gut when when food is digested and filters all the food is digested and filters all the nutrients from there. But also has a nutrients from there. But also has a very sophisticated detoxification very sophisticated detoxification pathways. pathways. Um and there's all these different Um and there's all these different biochemical pathways but depending on biochemical pathways but depending on the type of chemical, how to detoxify the type of chemical, how to detoxify things. And then they're either sent things. And then they're either sent into the bowel and you you poo them out into the bowel and you you poo them out or um you know, you or um you know, you um excrete them through your kidneys and um excrete them through your kidneys and they go back into the circulation and they go back into the circulation and they're they're made soluble. they're they're made soluble. So your So your um liver and your kidneys are really

um liver and your kidneys are really important for for detoxification. important for for detoxification. And then it depends on And then it depends on you know, people talk about this sort of you know, people talk about this sort of detox or that sort of detox and detox or that sort of detox and depending on what you're what you're If depending on what you're what you're If you're targeting a specific toxicity you're targeting a specific toxicity cuz there's a lot of um people who do cuz there's a lot of um people who do get industrial exposure for example. And get industrial exposure for example. And and and when you're talking about toxicity when you're talking about toxicity in very broad strokes, there's the lipid in very broad strokes, there's the lipid soluble toxins or um toxicants. So the soluble toxins or um toxicants. So the to- a toxin is a natural toxic to- a toxin is a natural toxic substance. A toxicant is a man-made substance. A toxicant is a man-made toxic substance. toxic substance. Mhm. Mhm. So you know, botulism toxins or even So you know, botulism toxins or even toxins in your body Mhm. um um are toxins in your body Mhm. um um are generated all the time. Toxicants are generated all the time. Toxicants are artificial man-made things. So for artificial man-made things. So for example you know, DDT and PCBs and that example you know, DDT and PCBs and that would be toxicants. And they're lipid would be toxicants. And they're lipid soluble which means they dissolve in soluble which means they dissolve in fat. fat. And they're very hard to get rid of. And they're very hard to get rid of. Cuz fat you don't excrete. Mhm. Fat fat Cuz fat you don't excrete. Mhm. Fat fat is a really valuable biological is a really valuable biological substance. It takes a lot of energy to

substance. It takes a lot of energy to to have fat and in evolution it helps to have fat and in evolution it helps you survive. So you don't want to you survive. So you don't want to excrete fat. Actually the the main time excrete fat. Actually the the main time um humans excrete fat and it's only um humans excrete fat and it's only females is when they're breastfeeding. females is when they're breastfeeding. And that's cuz they want to give that And that's cuz they want to give that fat to their child so they're they're fat to their child so they're they're excreting in their breast milk. excreting in their breast milk. Mhm. Mhm. And we know that um And we know that um when you breastfeed, you actually when you breastfeed, you actually excrete all these toxic fat soluble excrete all these toxic fat soluble substances, these lipophilic substances. substances, these lipophilic substances. And that um if you're a first child, you And that um if you're a first child, you get a higher dose of that because the get a higher dose of that because the mother has detoxified more into the mother has detoxified more into the first child than the second or third first child than the second or third child. Oh. So if if you have an older child. Oh. So if if you have an older brother or sister, you have to thank brother or sister, you have to thank them for taking that toxic hit for you. them for taking that toxic hit for you. Gee, right on. Gee, right on. So that's the the fat soluble um So that's the the fat soluble um toxicants. And then you got the water toxicants. And then you got the water soluble ones. And they're things like soluble ones. And they're things like the more modern pesticides like the the more modern pesticides like the organophosphates, etc. organophosphates, etc. And um And um we we actually did some research uh more we we actually did some research uh more more than 10 years ago now.

more than 10 years ago now. Oh, thanks. Oh, thanks. I thought you might want it. Mhm. Mhm. I thought you might want it. Mhm. Mhm. Oh, water is great. It's It's Mission Oh, water is great. It's It's Mission Spring water. Spring water. So yeah, that there's the water soluble So yeah, that there's the water soluble toxicants which are excreted mainly toxicants which are excreted mainly through your kidneys. through your kidneys. And they're quite easily excreted but And they're quite easily excreted but often they're they're all the time. So often they're they're all the time. So 10 years ago, more like 12 years ago, um 10 years ago, more like 12 years ago, um I had a PhD student we we did research I had a PhD student we we did research on uh organic food on uh organic food and pesticide um excretion. And we and pesticide um excretion. And we showed that if you have just an 80% showed that if you have just an 80% organic diet for 1 week you'll you'll organic diet for 1 week you'll you'll get a reduction in your pesticide load get a reduction in your pesticide load in your urine by 90%. in your urine by 90%. Wow. Wow. And that's because you'll flush them out And that's because you'll flush them out and if you're not replacing them you and if you're not replacing them you know, they they just they get removed know, they they just they get removed from your body after a week. But most from your body after a week. But most people would be exposed all the time. people would be exposed all the time. Mhm. So they're instead of the the lipid Mhm. So they're instead of the the lipid soluble ones called persistent organic soluble ones called persistent organic pollutants and they persist in your body pollutants and they persist in your body and they persist in the environment and they persist in the environment often for decades in the environment. often for decades in the environment. And they're the ones that go up the food

And they're the ones that go up the food chain. Mhm. Like DDT. Yeah, like DDT. So chain. Mhm. Like DDT. Yeah, like DDT. So it start and and the ocean food chain is it start and and the ocean food chain is more sensitive than the land food chain more sensitive than the land food chain cuz it's longer. So you know, the cuz it's longer. So you know, the The the phytoplankton will you know, get The the phytoplankton will you know, get eaten by the zooplankton and the eaten by the zooplankton and the zooplankton get eaten by the shrimp and zooplankton get eaten by the shrimp and the shrimp will get eaten by the bigger the shrimp will get eaten by the bigger one and then that will get eaten by the one and then that will get eaten by the little fish gets eaten by the bigger little fish gets eaten by the bigger fish. And you might get 10 million times fish. And you might get 10 million times magnification at the top of the food magnification at the top of the food chain in the ocean. chain in the ocean. Yeah. And you know, sea mammals and Yeah. And you know, sea mammals and whales and um Mhm. whales and um Mhm. uh uh you know, predatory fish and a big you know, predatory fish and a big marlin and and tuna have incredibly high marlin and and tuna have incredibly high levels of of uh these toxic substances levels of of uh these toxic substances in their body. In fact, I think some in their body. In fact, I think some whales when they get beached, they their whales when they get beached, they their carcasses have to be treated as toxic carcasses have to be treated as toxic waste because of the high level. waste because of the high level. And And there's some interesting research a few there's some interesting research a few years ago where they they were looking years ago where they they were looking at whale earwax. at whale earwax. Where apparently whales don't clean Where apparently whales don't clean their ears. their ears. And um every year um the wax builds up And um every year um the wax builds up on the in the ear. So at the end of on the in the ear. So at the end of their life, they have this like candle their life, they have this like candle that comes out of their ear.

that comes out of their ear. tree ring. tree ring. Like a tree ring, exactly. And they can Like a tree ring, exactly. And they can actually look at the the ring and see actually look at the the ring and see how old that that um whale was and um how old that that um whale was and um they actually get a a a measure of how they actually get a a a measure of how toxic the oceans are toxic the oceans are because of the toxicity built up by year because of the toxicity built up by year to year. And when they look at they see to year. And when they look at they see that that the whale has a toxic hit when that that the whale has a toxic hit when it's breastfeeding. it's breastfeeding. There's a lot of you know, cuz they're There's a lot of you know, cuz they're getting the toxic load from the mother getting the toxic load from the mother and then they can see it increase over and then they can see it increase over the years as the oceans have become more the years as the oceans have become more toxic. toxic. Mhm. Mhm. So that's you know, they're the the So that's you know, they're the the lipophilic persistent organic lipophilic persistent organic pollutants. And then we have the water pollutants. And then we have the water soluble ones which you you can excrete soluble ones which you you can excrete out really well by out really well by drinking good water and and saunering drinking good water and and saunering and flushing it. and flushing it. But they're often pseudo persistent cuz But they're often pseudo persistent cuz we keep on eating them or we keep on we keep on eating them or we keep on breathing them or we keep on being breathing them or we keep on being exposed to them all the time. So this is exposed to them all the time. So this is where it's nice to have a regular where it's nice to have a regular practice to flush everything out, come practice to flush everything out, come back to balance. How clean can you be? back to balance. How clean can you be? How comfortable can you be? How how in How comfortable can you be? How how in balance can you be? And you know, the balance can you be? And you know, the the act of saunering and you know, doing

the act of saunering and you know, doing that that protocol of you know, rinse that that protocol of you know, rinse hot cold rest repeat, it's like an hot cold rest repeat, it's like an exploration of how comfortable am I able exploration of how comfortable am I able to be in my mind and my body right now. to be in my mind and my body right now. And how clean can I be? Mhm. How good And how clean can I be? Mhm. How good can I feel? can I feel? So this is it's it's So this is it's it's on so many different levels this works. on so many different levels this works. So many different levels. Yeah, I can So many different levels. Yeah, I can see that. And and coming back to what see that. And and coming back to what you said in the beginning of you said in the beginning of uh you know, you have the whole body in uh you know, you have the whole body in a hot state when when you come out of a hot state when when you come out of the sauna. And then as you go into a the sauna. And then as you go into a cold environment, it shuts down the uh cold environment, it shuts down the uh all all the you know, all all the you know, hands, arms, you know, legs, that that hands, arms, you know, legs, that that type of thing. type of thing. But still keep your core really warm But still keep your core really warm which to me means that it's probably which to me means that it's probably still a lot of um vasodilation within still a lot of um vasodilation within the core. the core. Well, that's right. When when when Well, that's right. When when when you're in the the hot, you actually have you're in the the hot, you actually have vasoconstriction in your core. vasoconstriction in your core. Cuz you've you've sent all the blood Cuz you've you've sent all the blood from to the outside. from to the outside. Right. So now this is the opposite. You Right. So now this is the opposite. You All that blood was on the outside now All that blood was on the outside now going to the inside. So you actually going to the inside. So you actually want it for detox reason because you

want it for detox reason because you want the blood to go through the organs. want the blood to go through the organs. Um you basically catch it by sending all Um you basically catch it by sending all the blood into your extremities. the blood into your extremities. Yeah. Uh it it catches all the all the Yeah. Uh it it catches all the all the toxins that are available at that very toxins that are available at that very moment. Then you go into the cold which moment. Then you go into the cold which means it's all pulled cold cold home, means it's all pulled cold cold home, yeah, to to the to the organs and it it yeah, to to the to the organs and it it goes through the organs more more goes through the organs more more Actually efficiently. Actually efficiently. So you're pumping blood to the outside So you're pumping blood to the outside and to the inside, to the outside to and to the inside, to the outside to pick up the waste, to the inside to pick up the waste, to the inside to clear out the waste. And then and then clear out the waste. And then and then you're drinking lots to to flush it out. you're drinking lots to to flush it out. You know, that makes much more sense You know, that makes much more sense when I hear that way. I've been exposed when I hear that way. I've been exposed to this, you know, thinking for a long to this, you know, thinking for a long long time long time on a really shallow level. So people on a really shallow level. So people will say, you know, it's good to have will say, you know, it's good to have cold because um you know, like it cold because um you know, like it hardens the body or you know, whatever hardens the body or you know, whatever is said. But when you actually talk is said. But when you actually talk about the more in a at a more detailed about the more in a at a more detailed level level to me, that makes way more sense. Like to me, that makes way more sense. Like I'm I'm more inclined to do it uh now I'm I'm more inclined to do it uh now more regularly because I actually more regularly because I actually understand and can really see like that understand and can really see like that that's definitely make so much more that's definitely make so much more sense. I just sense. I just Yeah, cuz cuz it's not complicated and

Yeah, cuz cuz it's not complicated and it you know, it makes intuitive sense. it you know, it makes intuitive sense. Okay, your blood's going to go to the Okay, your blood's going to go to the outside, pick up the waste, and then you outside, pick up the waste, and then you have to force the blood back into your have to force the blood back into your organs. organs. Mhm. Mhm. And and when you're you know, I was And and when you're you know, I was saying about fight and flight and rest saying about fight and flight and rest and digest. So when you're stressed, and digest. So when you're stressed, that's when the blood goes to the that's when the blood goes to the outside and you're you know, going to outside and you're you know, going to going to fight and you turn off your going to fight and you turn off your immune system. You turn off your healing immune system. You turn off your healing system. You turn off digestion. So it's system. You turn off digestion. So it's when you're relaxed and in that rest when you're relaxed and in that rest period where you they all turn on and period where you they all turn on and then your organs become much more then your organs become much more active. So that's when the blood is you active. So that's when the blood is you know, going into your internal organs know, going into your internal organs and you know, you can turn on your and you know, you can turn on your immune system gets active. Ah. Your immune system gets active. Ah. Your digestion gets active. digestion gets active. Yes. Ah, that's really powerful cuz if I Yes. Ah, that's really powerful cuz if I think about a Western lifestyle, you think about a Western lifestyle, you know, we do this 1-hour know, we do this 1-hour sauna cold plunge session and then we're sauna cold plunge session and then we're back into life, whatever. Maybe even you back into life, whatever. Maybe even you know, do it do it after work on a on you know, do it do it after work on a on you know, after work and then go out with know, after work and then go out with friends and be all animated again. And I friends and be all animated again. And I can see how that is really can see how that is really counterproductive because if you back counterproductive because if you back and fight fight and flight quite and fight fight and flight quite quickly. And I can feel it when I don't

quickly. And I can feel it when I don't give myself enough rest after after a give myself enough rest after after a sauna session sauna session it's actually more work and it feels it's actually more work and it feels really not not nice to push through it. really not not nice to push through it. Well, your body will force you cuz Well, your body will force you cuz you'll sleep really well. Yeah. And that you'll sleep really well. Yeah. And that is a benefit cuz and and this is one is a benefit cuz and and this is one thing we did um Joy who did the sauna thing we did um Joy who did the sauna research, we did the global sauna research, we did the global sauna survey. And the thing that everyone came survey. And the thing that everyone came back with said, we sleep great after a back with said, we sleep great after a sauna. sauna. Mhm. Mhm. So so your body will force itself to So so your body will force itself to have that rest. have that rest. Mhm. Mhm. But if you can do it when you're But if you can do it when you're conscious, then you get the mental conscious, then you get the mental health and the physical health benefits health and the physical health benefits I think even more. I think even more. And you probably will still sleep well. And you probably will still sleep well. Yeah. So, yeah, it does it tires you Yeah. So, yeah, it does it tires you out. It's um you all this metabolic work out. It's um you all this metabolic work takes energy and yeah, you need to rest takes energy and yeah, you need to rest and and come back to balance and if you and and come back to balance and if you if you just go straight into your life, if you just go straight into your life, you're probably going to zonk out that you're probably going to zonk out that night. Mhm. night. Mhm. It just makes me think about the people It just makes me think about the people that listen maybe that know that if they that listen maybe that know that if they stop, they suddenly get sick, but you stop, they suddenly get sick, but you know, if you really think about the know, if you really think about the cycle, if you constantly in

cycle, if you constantly in fight and flight, there's no healing fight and flight, there's no healing going on, you know, and and there's no going on, you know, and and there's no detoxification going after you have all detoxification going after you have all these toxins mobilized in your body. And these toxins mobilized in your body. And then if you then if you if you if you do stop and if it's just I if you if you do stop and if it's just I don't know, two or three times a year, I don't know, two or three times a year, I can imagine some people just do it just can imagine some people just do it just really kick into it either on a Sunday really kick into it either on a Sunday every Sunday every Sunday or you know, when they really have or you know, when they really have rested or when you're on holiday. rested or when you're on holiday. There's certainly then what comes with There's certainly then what comes with it sometimes is the flu or you know, it sometimes is the flu or you know, just some sort of sickness. just some sort of sickness. And I can see that that the toxic load And I can see that that the toxic load has probably come quite high or just has probably come quite high or just there's a stock take of the body saying there's a stock take of the body saying like, look, you know, there's no other like, look, you know, there's no other way than really going rock bottom and I way than really going rock bottom and I make you sick for now to to really get make you sick for now to to really get through the healing. through the healing. being sick, there is a detoxification being sick, there is a detoxification that happens. Mhm. You know, in the that happens. Mhm. You know, in the mucus and you know Yeah. So, there's a mucus and you know Yeah. So, there's a excretion that happens. But it's good to excretion that happens. But it's good to be on top of that and to put be on top of that and to put pauses into your activity cuz we you pauses into your activity cuz we you know, there's so much stress right now know, there's so much stress right now in the modern world to be on the go all in the modern world to be on the go all the time. the time. Mhm. And you know Who would ever kept up

Mhm. And you know Who would ever kept up with their emails and the content of with their emails and the content of stuff you want to watch and you know, stuff you want to watch and you know, everyone to contact and everyone to contact and Yeah. So, there's this pressure to be on Yeah. So, there's this pressure to be on all the time. all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And And you know, what what I really think the you know, what what I really think the show is is that if you can actively turn show is is that if you can actively turn yourself off, you can be more effective yourself off, you can be more effective when you're on. when you're on. Yeah. And to have periods whether it's Yeah. And to have periods whether it's you know, it's a couple of times a week you know, it's a couple of times a week that you're doing your sauna, um it can that you're doing your sauna, um it can be doing a meditation practice every be doing a meditation practice every day. I mean, when you sleep, you're day. I mean, when you sleep, you're obviously turning off, but really obviously turning off, but really having some rituals around that so having some rituals around that so you're you're doing that as much as you're you're doing that as much as possible. So, having having periods possible. So, having having periods where you can where you can be off as much as possible. How many be off as much as possible. How many things can you turn off in your body? I things can you turn off in your body? I can turn my mind and my heart, you know, can turn my mind and my heart, you know, so how to come really down into that so how to come really down into that point of stillness and then when you're point of stillness and then when you're on, you can be fully on and focused. And on, you can be fully on and focused. And I and I really believe there's nothing I and I really believe there's nothing more powerful in the whole universe than more powerful in the whole universe than focused human attention. focused human attention. Mhm. Cuz that's what designs everything Mhm. Cuz that's what designs everything and controls everything. Mhm. So, your and controls everything. Mhm. So, your focused human attention is so valuable. focused human attention is so valuable. I think that's why everyone wants it. I think that's why everyone wants it. That's why everyone's trying to demand

That's why everyone's trying to demand and cuz it's such a valuable resource. and cuz it's such a valuable resource. Yet Yet for you to focus your attention and to for you to focus your attention and to make it like a laser focus, you need make it like a laser focus, you need your whole body behind it. Like your your whole body behind it. Like your body is like the the reflecting body is like the the reflecting magnifier that focuses that laser. So, magnifier that focuses that laser. So, to get your body working and your mind to get your body working and your mind working together, then suddenly you working together, then suddenly you become a really powerful force in the become a really powerful force in the world. world. So, yeah, to So, yeah, to yeah, to focus yeah, to focus um your whole body and mind together on um your whole body and mind together on doing nothing, that gives you the the doing nothing, that gives you the the base for then directing that attention base for then directing that attention wherever you want. Amazing. Oh, that's wherever you want. Amazing. Oh, that's great permission to do it. I love it. great permission to do it. I love it. Mhm. It just is a side question on the Mhm. It just is a side question on the on the toxins. What do you think about on the toxins. What do you think about toxin binders? Is that something that toxin binders? Is that something that you would throw into your protocol of, you would throw into your protocol of, you know, let's say you know, you have you know, let's say you know, you have your protocol as you say, you know, you your protocol as you say, you know, you rinse, you have heat, you have cold, you rinse, you have heat, you have cold, you you rest and then you repeat. Is there you rest and then you repeat. Is there something that would help through the something that would help through the bowel detoxification to a detoxification

bowel detoxification to a detoxification to yeah, to to absorb something like, I to yeah, to to absorb something like, I don't know, clay or chlorella or don't know, clay or chlorella or something like that. Yeah, I mean, something like that. Yeah, I mean, there's a whole range of binders and there's a whole range of binders and they're often very specific. Mhm. You they're often very specific. Mhm. You know, for targeting to specific toxic know, for targeting to specific toxic exposures and if you're going to target exposures and if you're going to target specific ones, it's good to have, you specific ones, it's good to have, you know, why and what's your objective. know, why and what's your objective. Yeah. But I think it's really great to Yeah. But I think it's really great to build into your everyday life these build into your everyday life these binders. So, one of the the best binders binders. So, one of the the best binders is just soluble fiber. is just soluble fiber. Okay. Now, having, you know, whole Okay. Now, having, you know, whole plants, Mhm. having the whole fruit plants, Mhm. having the whole fruit rather than the juice and and having rather than the juice and and having soluble fiber in your diet cuz that that soluble fiber in your diet cuz that that binds and excretes. Mhm. Um I mean, binds and excretes. Mhm. Um I mean, water is one of the best I wouldn't call water is one of the best I wouldn't call it a binder, but the thing you know, the it a binder, but the thing you know, the medium for for flushing toxicity medium for for flushing toxicity through. through. Um a lot of phytonutrients Um a lot of phytonutrients um act to bind um toxicity. Mhm. Um and um act to bind um toxicity. Mhm. Um and quite a few of them also enhance liver quite a few of them also enhance liver enzyme pathway detoxification. enzyme pathway detoxification. So, a lot of um a lot of herbs you

So, a lot of um a lot of herbs you having herbal medicine and even herbal having herbal medicine and even herbal tea you can just have every day. I mean, tea you can just have every day. I mean, I'm a big fan of tulsi tea or holy I'm a big fan of tulsi tea or holy basil. And that actually you can have it basil. And that actually you can have it every day and that will will bind every day and that will will bind toxicity, but it also enhance your liver toxicity, but it also enhance your liver detoxification pathways. detoxification pathways. So, I think So, I think yeah, I mean, there are specific yeah, I mean, there are specific binders, you know, there and you can get binders, you know, there and you can get into, you know, EDTA and DMPS for heavy into, you know, EDTA and DMPS for heavy metals and then, you know, zeolites and metals and then, you know, zeolites and dolomites and different clays and your dolomites and different clays and your gas and gas and even chlorella and things that can bind even chlorella and things that can bind from heavy metals and um that they're from heavy metals and um that they're great if you want to have a specific great if you want to have a specific target. target. But I think you can really build that But I think you can really build that into a healthy diet and a healthy into a healthy diet and a healthy lifestyle a lot of these lifestyle a lot of these agents that have other agents that have other you know, nutrient benefits as well. you know, nutrient benefits as well. However, I think it's there is some However, I think it's there is some protocols around saunaring to use herbs protocols around saunaring to use herbs to enhance that. And again, that's been to enhance that. And again, that's been done traditionally. done traditionally. So, even before you get into the sauna, So, even before you get into the sauna, if you have a a herbal tea or with a if you have a a herbal tea or with a warming tea something like ginger and warming tea something like ginger and cinnamon or something that, you know, cinnamon or something that, you know, already warms you and and maybe delights

already warms you and and maybe delights you. You can you can you know, that can you. You can you can you know, that can enhance that experience. And then when enhance that experience. And then when you're in the sauna, you're in the sauna, uh I really like bringing attention to uh I really like bringing attention to different parts of my body. So, I might different parts of my body. So, I might bring in a bring in a have a ice bucket just outside with a have a ice bucket just outside with a face washer in it with some face washer in it with some I don't know, some lemongrass or some I don't know, some lemongrass or some nice essential oils, you know, some nice essential oils, you know, some blends and you just squeeze that out and blends and you just squeeze that out and when you're really hot, you put that when you're really hot, you put that cold face washer on your face with some cold face washer on your face with some essential oils in it and it just essential oils in it and it just heightens your senses. And it also heightens your senses. And it also um gives you the feeling of being cool. um gives you the feeling of being cool. If you're just putting it over your face If you're just putting it over your face or your head, then you can stay longer or your head, then you can stay longer in the sauna. in the sauna. Cuz you know, you want to be comfortably Cuz you know, you want to be comfortably uncomfortable. So, you're uncomfortable, uncomfortable. So, you're uncomfortable, you're really hot, then you put the you you're really hot, then you put the you know, nice smelling cold face washer know, nice smelling cold face washer over and suddenly you're really over and suddenly you're really comfortable when you're uncomfortable comfortable when you're uncomfortable and you can just you can stay a bit and you can just you can stay a bit longer. So, having those sort of um longer. So, having those sort of um experiences which also make it fun. experiences which also make it fun. Yeah. And then um Yeah. And then um maybe having a spray bottle with mist maybe having a spray bottle with mist that you can have you can scent that or that you can have you can scent that or if you finish sauna, you can put water

if you finish sauna, you can put water on the rocks with scent. Um in New on the rocks with scent. Um in New Zealand at Maria Hot Springs, we do Zealand at Maria Hot Springs, we do wellness entertainment and we bring out wellness entertainment and we bring out um you know, frozen watermelon with um you know, frozen watermelon with rosewater. Mhm. So, just stimulates the rosewater. Mhm. So, just stimulates the cuz when you're really thirsty and then cuz when you're really thirsty and then really you really appreciate drinking really you really appreciate drinking and good water and and and you know, and good water and and and you know, fruits. Fruits are a structured water. fruits. Fruits are a structured water. Fruits are really great source of Fruits are really great source of structured water. Um but you can delight structured water. Um but you can delight your senses with that cuz your your your senses with that cuz your your senses um are heightened when you're in senses um are heightened when you're in that hot like I'm really thirsty, I'm that hot like I'm really thirsty, I'm dehydrated and dehydrated and experiencing that dehydration. Okay, I experiencing that dehydration. Okay, I you know, you cuz you know, you'll you know, you cuz you know, you'll sweat, you'll sweat, you'll you know, often you know, often I I know I've spent long enough in the I I know I've spent long enough in the sauna not just cuz I've got to that sauna not just cuz I've got to that comfortable uncomfortable, but the towel comfortable uncomfortable, but the towel is heavy. Mhm. You know, I've I've is heavy. Mhm. You know, I've I've sweated enough to say I can feel the sweated enough to say I can feel the weight of the towel, you know. Okay, weight of the towel, you know. Okay, that's that's a heavy towel. That's a that's that's a heavy towel. That's a good sauna. good sauna. Cuz you know, you mop the sweat sweat Cuz you know, you mop the sweat sweat off. And that's actually another good off. And that's actually another good practice is to actually mop the sweat practice is to actually mop the sweat off not to sort of sit there because if off not to sort of sit there because if it's got um it's got um you know, excreting substances in the

you know, excreting substances in the sweat, you don't want to have them on sweat, you don't want to have them on your skin. You want to get them away your skin. You want to get them away from your skin. So, that's a thing that from your skin. So, that's a thing that you actually reabsorb absorb the toxins. you actually reabsorb absorb the toxins. That's a really thing. So, okay, so so That's a really thing. So, okay, so so definitely um definitely um after you had a shower a shower uh after you had a shower a shower uh sorry, sauna after a shower or sorry, sauna after a shower or at least use a damp cloth to yeah. And at least use a damp cloth to yeah. And and I really I mean, I've got a interest and I really I mean, I've got a interest in this in in water, but if you're you in this in in water, but if you're you know, you're in the sauna and then you know, you're in the sauna and then you can have a shower in chlorinated water, can have a shower in chlorinated water, this is not ideal because your pores are this is not ideal because your pores are open. Yeah. And your skin has a surface open. Yeah. And your skin has a surface area of of 30 square meters. Mhm. We area of of 30 square meters. Mhm. We when I was first in medical school, we when I was first in medical school, we were taught it was 1.8 square meters. were taught it was 1.8 square meters. You know, your your skin surface area You know, your your skin surface area like about a single bed size. And then like about a single bed size. And then they realized that every time you have a they realized that every time you have a hair follicle and a sebaceous gland that hair follicle and a sebaceous gland that goes down and goes up and it's, you goes down and goes up and it's, you know, very big surface area and it's know, very big surface area and it's these glands that have special oils Mhm. these glands that have special oils Mhm. that protect your skin from the sun and that protect your skin from the sun and from aging and from getting wrinkles and from aging and from getting wrinkles and from also feed the good bacteria on your

from also feed the good bacteria on your skin which are protection against bad skin which are protection against bad bacteria and infections. Mhm. bacteria and infections. Mhm. So, those oils are really precious and So, those oils are really precious and the bacteria really valuable to you. If the bacteria really valuable to you. If you're and when you're in the sauna, you're and when you're in the sauna, those those you know, your skin's very open and then you know, your skin's very open and then if you're using chlorinated water, if you're using chlorinated water, you know, the reason why they use you know, the reason why they use chlorine is it's so toxic, it will kill chlorine is it's so toxic, it will kill bacteria at 0.5 parts per million when bacteria at 0.5 parts per million when it comes out of your tap. it comes out of your tap. Mhm. Mhm. chlorine will oxidize those natural oils chlorine will oxidize those natural oils and it will it will not kill all the and it will it will not kill all the bacteria, but it will change the bacteria, but it will change the bacterial population in your skin to bacterial population in your skin to make it more make it more um pathological. um pathological. Right. So, when we when we talked last Right. So, when we when we talked last time, I remember you saying that it's time, I remember you saying that it's it's safer to drink water because it it's safer to drink water because it actually at least gets filtered. Yes, actually at least gets filtered. Yes, through your liver, yeah. Yeah, then through your liver, yeah. Yeah, then rather than putting it on your skin rather than putting it on your skin which really means it gets absorbed which really means it gets absorbed right through into your bloodstream. right through into your bloodstream. That's right. Yeah. So, it's um and when That's right. Yeah. So, it's um and when you're in you know, having a sauna, you're in you know, having a sauna, you're more vulnerable. Once you hot you're more vulnerable. Once you hot water is worse than cold water because water is worse than cold water because the hot water I'm not just opening the the hot water I'm not just opening the pores, but the gases come out of it. So,

pores, but the gases come out of it. So, chlorine and um chlorine and um chloroform and trihalomethanes outgas chloroform and trihalomethanes outgas from hot water. Once it's over about 25 from hot water. Once it's over about 25 30 degrees. 30 degrees. Yes. So, if the air becomes toxic, not Yes. So, if the air becomes toxic, not just the water. So, if you're in cold just the water. So, if you're in cold water, even if it's chlorinated, it's water, even if it's chlorinated, it's not going to the chlorine won't affect not going to the chlorine won't affect you as much with your lungs, but it's you as much with your lungs, but it's still going to affect the still going to affect the um oils on your skin. Once you um oils on your skin. Once you if it's really cold, your skin's going if it's really cold, your skin's going to snap pores is to snap shut quicker to snap pores is to snap shut quicker and the cold water won't It's not as and the cold water won't It's not as volatile. It won't have as much access. volatile. It won't have as much access. Yeah. So, yeah, if if you got You can't Yeah. So, yeah, if if you got You can't escape chlorinated water, then it's escape chlorinated water, then it's better to have it cold. Or there's a better to have it cold. Or there's a little trick you can do is have a little trick you can do is have a Fill up a bath really hot, and then wait Fill up a bath really hot, and then wait half an hour till it's outgassed. Mhm. half an hour till it's outgassed. Mhm. And after about half an hour of, you And after about half an hour of, you know, hot enough, then know, hot enough, then most of the chlorine will be gone. But most of the chlorine will be gone. But that, um, that, um, you know, having a cold shower after, you know, having a cold shower after, you know, flushing everything off, you you know, flushing everything off, you know, the better the quality water, um, know, the better the quality water, um, you know, the better your skin's going

you know, the better your skin's going to feel. All the oils will come back, to feel. All the oils will come back, and suddenly you're you're you're like and suddenly you're you're you're like to touch your skin, and you you'll to touch your skin, and you you'll notice that, you know, any skin notice that, you know, any skin conditions can um conditions can um can improve, and and your hair feels can improve, and and your hair feels better even. better even. Do you um your filters that that you Do you um your filters that that you have developed, is are they are they have developed, is are they are they taking the the chlorine out of it as taking the the chlorine out of it as well? Absolutely. well? Absolutely. Yeah. So, that that I have beautiful Yeah. So, that that I have beautiful water. We call it beautiful water, which water. We call it beautiful water, which is filtered. It's structured. is filtered. It's structured. Mhm. Uh it's balanced in terms of pH and Mhm. Uh it's balanced in terms of pH and minerals. It's blessed with positive minerals. It's blessed with positive intention. And it's free in terms of the intention. And it's free in terms of the the water doesn't cost money. The the water doesn't cost money. The thought doesn't cost money, but the thought doesn't cost money, but the water's free. But it's also free flowing water's free. But it's also free flowing in that it's not held in a tank or held in that it's not held in a tank or held in a bottle. So, it's it's It's always in a bottle. So, it's it's It's always flowing. And the And water wants to be flowing. And the And water wants to be flowing. As soon as water's held in a flowing. As soon as water's held in a tank or a bottle, it starts to lose its tank or a bottle, it starts to lose its structure. structure. And there's a whole science around I And there's a whole science around I mean, your body is structured water. If mean, your body is structured water. If the count If you count, you know, you're the count If you count, you know, you're 2/3 water by volume or by mass, but 2/3 water by volume or by mass, but you're 99.9%

you're 99.9% water molecules. water molecules. If you count every molecule, you know, If you count every molecule, you know, proteins are huge, and collagen, and and proteins are huge, and collagen, and and nucleic acids are massive, and water's nucleic acids are massive, and water's super tiny. super tiny. So, 99.9% of your molecules are water So, 99.9% of your molecules are water molecules. So, you're very highly molecules. So, you're very highly structured water. structured water. And there are different ways that water And there are different ways that water can be structured. One is through can be structured. One is through biological, biological, um, organisms, whether it's, you know, um, organisms, whether it's, you know, vegetables and fruit. That's already vegetables and fruit. That's already structured if it's in the vegetable or a structured if it's in the vegetable or a fruit. So, you can eat water that way. fruit. So, you can eat water that way. Um through magnets. The water when water Um through magnets. The water when water comes through magnetic rocks and stuff, comes through magnetic rocks and stuff, it becomes structured. And the natural it becomes structured. And the natural action of water going down a mountain action of water going down a mountain stream, forming vortexes. Yes. So, this stream, forming vortexes. Yes. So, this this flow form, um, naturally causes, this flow form, um, naturally causes, uh, water to structure. And what they've uh, water to structure. And what they've found is when you have structured water, found is when you have structured water, plants will grow better, you know, and plants will grow better, you know, and you'll grow better. You know, it's you'll grow better. You know, it's easily absorbed into the plants. So, easily absorbed into the plants. So, with less water, you'll get 30% more with less water, you'll get 30% more growth and sprouts, et cetera. Um if growth and sprouts, et cetera. Um if you're if you're making bread, the bread you're if you're making bread, the bread will be moister. Mhm. will be moister. Mhm. And and taste better. If you're making

And and taste better. If you're making concrete, the concrete will be stronger. concrete, the concrete will be stronger. Um Um if you're cleaning something, even if you're cleaning something, even without detergent, the water will clean without detergent, the water will clean better. And if you use detergent, the better. And if you use detergent, the detergent will dissolve better, and, um, detergent will dissolve better, and, um, not leave a soapy film. not leave a soapy film. Um Um structured water dissolves the calcite structured water dissolves the calcite minerals, turns them into aragonite, minerals, turns them into aragonite, which is a more rhomboid shape that which is a more rhomboid shape that slides over each other. It's a smaller, slides over each other. It's a smaller, um, mineral. So, the mineral's still um, mineral. So, the mineral's still there, but it doesn't form scale. So, there, but it doesn't form scale. So, the pipes and the and your heaters and the pipes and the and your heaters and stuff won't get scale. But also, you stuff won't get scale. But also, you won't get scale on your shower screen. won't get scale on your shower screen. Mhm. You know, that white film you you Mhm. You know, that white film you you get? Really, you don't? Yeah, you just get? Really, you don't? Yeah, you just You can just, um, and you're washing You can just, um, and you're washing windows, you don't get streaks. windows, you don't get streaks. Wow. Wow. So, so it saves on cleaning. And you So, so it saves on cleaning. And you just, you know, flush Put the water on just, you know, flush Put the water on the shower screen, and it stays clear. the shower screen, and it stays clear. And it's also the same build-up that And it's also the same build-up that happens on your shower screen happens on happens on your shower screen happens on your hair and your skin. your hair and your skin. Mhm. And you know, suddenly you don't Mhm. And you know, suddenly you don't have this scale mineral build-up. So, have this scale mineral build-up. So, structured water is actually a really um structured water is actually a really um important part of our life. Mhm. Yet we important part of our life. Mhm. Yet we don't often understand it and respect

don't often understand it and respect it. So, I mean, the filters the it. So, I mean, the filters the beautiful water filters naturally beautiful water filters naturally structure the water by the way the water structure the water by the way the water goes through the filter technology, um, goes through the filter technology, um, through the sort of the polymer ion through the sort of the polymer ion exchange, um, resin and polymer. exchange, um, resin and polymer. But then I've also got, uh, what I call But then I've also got, uh, what I call a beautiful water enhancer. And this is a beautiful water enhancer. And this is It's actually a Swiss device, It's actually a Swiss device, um, that is It's a stainless steel tube um, that is It's a stainless steel tube that mimics, you know, a kilometer of that mimics, you know, a kilometer of mountain stream. mountain stream. Wow. And it's just got a series of, um, Wow. And it's just got a series of, um, plates in it. And they're zinc, copper, plates in it. And they're zinc, copper, and and, um, silver plates. And the and and, um, silver plates. And the plates have got holes in it like a plates have got holes in it like a propeller, and it forces the water into propeller, and it forces the water into vortexes. vortexes. And the water that spins in the vortex, And the water that spins in the vortex, in the middle of the vortex, you have a in the middle of the vortex, you have a cavitation bubble. So, it actually cavitation bubble. So, it actually creates like a vacuum. creates like a vacuum. And that pulls any volatile compounds And that pulls any volatile compounds out of the water. So, it outgasses out of the water. So, it outgasses things. But it also things. But it also breathes, um, makes the minerals more breathes, um, makes the minerals more soluble. soluble. So, this is a device that doesn't need So, this is a device that doesn't need replacement, you know, it's just the replacement, you know, it's just the physics of the device is what, you know, physics of the device is what, you know, how how it works. Um, and it can go in how how it works. Um, and it can go in your whole house. So, I really And these

your whole house. So, I really And these devices you can also, um, I've been devices you can also, um, I've been using it lately is, um, you can connect using it lately is, um, you can connect them to a garden hose. So, you can make them to a garden hose. So, you can make your you know, a garden hose into a nice your you know, a garden hose into a nice shower outside, or Right. But if you shower outside, or Right. But if you have it for your whole house, um, then have it for your whole house, um, then even if you haven't filtered the water, even if you haven't filtered the water, you've got structured water. And that's you've got structured water. And that's really great for for your skin, for, um, really great for for your skin, for, um, your cooking, for your plants, for your your cooking, for your plants, for your pets, for cleaning. It's just um it's pets, for cleaning. It's just um it's it's the next level of water. it's the next level of water. Yeah. It's amazing. What's the website, Yeah. It's amazing. What's the website, then? Just beautifulwater.co. then? Just beautifulwater.co. Awesome. beautifulwater.co. Um, yeah, Awesome. beautifulwater.co. Um, yeah, we've So, we've got a whole house we've So, we've got a whole house system, which is two stainless steel system, which is two stainless steel containers. Mind you, there's actually containers. Mind you, there's actually shortages at the moment for stainless shortages at the moment for stainless steel. So, we we still have some in steel. So, we we still have some in stock, but I don't know if stock, but I don't know if the next container I don't, you know, the next container I don't, you know, you have to pre-people have to pre-order you have to pre-people have to pre-order to make sure they get them. So, the to make sure they get them. So, the whole house system, um, will do all the whole house system, um, will do all the water So, it means you can drink from water So, it means you can drink from freely from any water, you know, any tap freely from any water, you know, any tap in your house. Brilliant. And I love in your house. Brilliant. And I love that I come out of the sauna and have a that I come out of the sauna and have a beautiful water shower. It just feels beautiful water shower. It just feels fantastic. Yeah. And then there's a

fantastic. Yeah. And then there's a uh under sink system or a whole uh under sink system or a whole apartment one for, you know, for a apartment one for, you know, for a couple that would last, you know, a year couple that would last, you know, a year or two. And the the filter cartridges or two. And the the filter cartridges are actually regenerate, um, or you can are actually regenerate, um, or you can regenerate them using a cleaning regenerate them using a cleaning protocol. Mhm. So, you I mean, you can protocol. Mhm. So, you I mean, you can replace them just buy a new cartridge replace them just buy a new cartridge every year or two, but you can actually every year or two, but you can actually use, um, a combination of citric acid use, um, a combination of citric acid and bicarb soda, and flush them, and and bicarb soda, and flush them, and actually regenerate them so they last, actually regenerate them so they last, you know, very long time. Brilliant. I you know, very long time. Brilliant. I love it. So, that. Yeah. Before I let love it. So, that. Yeah. Before I let you go, there was one last question you go, there was one last question around, um, around, um, going all the way back to sort of like going all the way back to sort of like what happens when you're actually in in what happens when you're actually in in a cold or hot situation. And that's sort a cold or hot situation. And that's sort of endorphins and any other hormones of endorphins and any other hormones that get released. Can you just speak on that get released. Can you just speak on why that is and and and when that why that is and and and when that happens? Cuz I'm I'm a little bit unsure happens? Cuz I'm I'm a little bit unsure why the body would do that. Is that just why the body would do that. Is that just a reward system saying like, "You did a reward system saying like, "You did the right thing. Do it again." or Well, the right thing. Do it again." or Well, it's more like you've you've Endorphins it's more like you've you've Endorphins get released as pain control. Uh-huh. get released as pain control. Uh-huh. So, you're you know, endorphins like So, you're you know, endorphins like hundreds of times more potent than

hundreds of times more potent than morphine in terms in terms of pain morphine in terms in terms of pain control. And Wow. um control. And Wow. um You know, it's like the runner's high. You know, it's like the runner's high. You get that because when you're You get that because when you're running, you're actually doing damage to running, you're actually doing damage to your body. your body. You're you're impacting. Muscles get You're you're impacting. Muscles get torn. Your bones get, you know, torn. Your bones get, you know, stressed. So, your body releases stressed. So, your body releases endorphins to keep you going. And then endorphins to keep you going. And then when you stop, you endorphins are still when you stop, you endorphins are still going. You get this runner's high. going. You get this runner's high. So, the when you're at So, the when you're at in a threatening situation, and in a threatening situation, and with hot and cold, you're playing with a with hot and cold, you're playing with a very profound very profound life life life and death situation. Hot Too much life and death situation. Hot Too much hot and too much cold, you die. And hot and too much cold, you die. And that's not just, you know, mammals die. that's not just, you know, mammals die. A- All life will die. So, this is 4.5 A- All life will die. So, this is 4.5 billion years of evolutionary billion years of evolutionary intelligence to keep your body intelligence to keep your body your body in therm- thermoregulation. your body in therm- thermoregulation. And endorphins are a way to And endorphins are a way to I guess overcome, I guess overcome, you know, a stressful situation. you know, a stressful situation. Mhm. Um

Mhm. Um and and yeah, you It's But it's not just the yeah, you It's But it's not just the endorphins. You get this whole endorphins. You get this whole autonomic nervous system response as autonomic nervous system response as well as this physiological response. And well as this physiological response. And I think as humans, cuz we have this very I think as humans, cuz we have this very sophisticated We talked about in the sophisticated We talked about in the thermoregulation how we're so thermoregulation how we're so sophisticated because we've got our sophisticated because we've got our psychology as well as our biology. psychology as well as our biology. When you're going to the edge of your When you're going to the edge of your physiology with hot and cold, you know, physiology with hot and cold, you know, you start with your biochemistry, then you start with your biochemistry, then your physiology, then your mind has to your physiology, then your mind has to get involved. get involved. Mhm. And when your mind is getting Mhm. And when your mind is getting involved, that's when involved, that's when the the your body demands your the the your body demands your attention. Okay, okay, I have to I want attention. Okay, okay, I have to I want to get out of here. It's getting really to get out of here. It's getting really hot. But if I just Let's Can I just hot. But if I just Let's Can I just breathe and recover? breathe and recover? And when you're doing that, there's all And when you're doing that, there's all sorts of neurochemicals that are being sorts of neurochemicals that are being secreted that keep your mind focused, in secreted that keep your mind focused, in balance, and aligned with the rest of balance, and aligned with the rest of your body. So, the endorphins are part your body. So, the endorphins are part of that. of that. And they're also part of the hormonal And they're also part of the hormonal control. control. There's a you know, um, There's a you know, um, the proto-endorphin. There's this

the proto-endorphin. There's this hormone proopiomelanocortin, hormone proopiomelanocortin, which is like this prohormone that is which is like this prohormone that is secreted in the pituitary gland that secreted in the pituitary gland that then gets broken down into endorphin and then gets broken down into endorphin and and melatonin and and other hormones. and melatonin and and other hormones. So, this is, um, So, this is, um, you know, they call it the conductor of you know, they call it the conductor of the endocrine orchestra. the endocrine orchestra. So, you know, when you have a good So, you know, when you have a good conductor, then the whole orchestra's conductor, then the whole orchestra's playing well. playing well. And that's that's what you want. Ah, got And that's that's what you want. Ah, got you. Thanks for explaining that. you. Thanks for explaining that. Awesome. Awesome. Mark, I think I have to have you back Mark, I think I have to have you back because I still so many questions. because I still so many questions. More coming up. More coming up. Yeah, more Yeah, wanting to explore more Yeah, more Yeah, wanting to explore more avenues, but, um, avenues, but, um, Haven't talked about fermented foods Haven't talked about fermented foods yet. Oh, it's a whole Yeah, yeah, yeah. yet. Oh, it's a whole Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've got a whole 'nother business They've got a whole 'nother business doing that. But And that's a Yeah, doing that. But And that's a Yeah, that's important with water, but that's that's important with water, but that's a whole 'nother topic. But yeah, we a whole 'nother topic. But yeah, we could Yeah, we could we could talk for a could Yeah, we could we could talk for a long time, I think. If people want to long time, I think. If people want to research your work and what you do and research your work and what you do and your products, what's the best way to your products, what's the best way to find you? find you? Um I've got a website at doctormarc.co. Um my company beautifulwater.co

my company beautifulwater.co is for the filters. I have, um, is for the filters. I have, um, extremely alive wellness tonics. That's extremely alive wellness tonics. That's extremelyalive.com.au. They're great. I have my children's books, which is I have my children's books, which is pronoia press.co. pronoia press.co. And, um, I have Maria Hot Springs in New And, um, I have Maria Hot Springs in New Zealand, which I can't go right now, but Zealand, which I can't go right now, but that's mariahottsprings.nz, that's mariahottsprings.nz, I think. I think. Yeah. .co.nz. maybe? Yeah. .co.nz. maybe? Dot co dot NZ is Dot co dot NZ is Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Terrific. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Terrific. Mark, thank you so much for coming. I Mark, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate your time and your really appreciate your time and your wisdom that you shared. Oh, thanks. It's wisdom that you shared. Oh, thanks. It's always a pleasure to be up here and then always a pleasure to be up here and then to chat with you. And um yeah, and to be to chat with you. And um yeah, and to be able to do a podcast in a sauna, it's able to do a podcast in a sauna, it's great. And and I you know, I love sauna great. And and I you know, I love sauna so much and and the culture and um so much and and the culture and um try to yeah, just bring these ancient try to yeah, just bring these ancient knowledge, this ancient tradition into knowledge, this ancient tradition into the modern world. So, I really love what the modern world. So, I really love what you're doing with your company and um you're doing with your company and um yeah, I'm really happy to come back at yeah, I'm really happy to come back at anytime. Awesome. Thank you so much. anytime. Awesome. Thank you so much. Cheers.

Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.

Finding The Edge

The useful target is comfort under challenge. Dr. Cohen describes it as being comfortably uncomfortable, a place where the body has your full attention while you remain in control. That edge is the center of the practice.

Duration depends on the person and the moment. Heat source, humidity, air movement, stress, mood, and experience all change the way heat feels. Ten minutes can be generous on one day and too much on another.

Temperature alone does not tell the whole story. A very hot dry sauna can feel different from a cooler steam room because humidity carries heat into the body more intensely. Moving air can amplify that sensation, turning the same room into a stronger experience.

The better measure is your response. Notice when the body begins to sweat, when breath becomes deliberate, and when attention narrows. These signals create a more precise protocol than a timer used without awareness.

A yoga stretch offers the clearest comparison. You move toward the edge, pause, breathe, and stay present. If you force past that edge, the practice turns from adaptation into strain.

You're just visiting the edge of your comfort zone.

Heat creates a similar conversation. At first, you can talk, read, or drift. Then the body begins to speak more clearly, and the room asks for your attention.

That moment becomes forced mindfulness. The heat gathers the mind and the body into the same place, because thermoregulation matters to every living system. In plain language, your body is protecting balance, and your awareness becomes sharper because it has to be present.

More heat is not automatically more benefit. A stronger sauna only serves you when you can meet it with breath, composure, and respect. If the session becomes a contest, you have already moved away from recovery.

The edge will change. Anxiety can narrow it, fatigue can bring it closer, and calm can create more room. Mastery comes from recognizing the boundary without needing to dominate it.

This is where the ritual becomes personal. You do not copy someone else’s threshold and call it discipline. You learn the conditions that let your own body adapt with clarity.

Safety, Hydration, And Recovery

Hydration is part of the protocol, not an accessory beside it. Heat moves fluid through the body, and the practice asks you to arrive prepared. Quality water before, during, and after the session supports the whole arc of recovery.

Dehydration changes the session. It reduces your margin for error and makes it harder to read the body clearly. A refined sauna practice begins before you enter the heat.

Alcohol and drugs do not belong in this ritual. They dull perception, make dehydration easier to miss, and increase the risk of staying in too long. Sauna requires awareness, and awareness requires a clear body.

Respecting limits is not caution without ambition. It is the condition that lets adaptation continue over time. You build resilience by returning to the practice consistently, not by turning one session into a test of endurance.

Know your approximate range. If you understand that ten or fifteen minutes is close to your limit in a given environment, honor that information. Precision begins with remembering what your body has already taught you.

Posture matters after heat. When you lie down or sit for a long period, then stand quickly, dilated blood vessels can allow blood to drop toward the legs. The result can be dizziness or fainting, which breaks the calm of the ritual and creates real risk.

Move slowly when the heat phase ends. Sit up, pause, stand with support if it is available, and give the body a moment to organize itself. The transition deserves the same attention as the sauna itself.

Hot surfaces also ask for respect. Benches, stones, buckets, metal fixtures, and floors can become part of the risk when awareness fades. A premium protocol is not dramatic; it is precise.

Sauna should feel intentional and enjoyable. It is not a torture chamber, and it is not a place to prove that pain can be ignored. The body’s signals are not obstacles to overcome; they are the intelligence of the practice.

Shared sessions, quiet rooms, simple tools, and thoughtful design can all enhance the experience. Enjoyment is not a lesser aim. When the practice feels grounded, you return to it with steadiness.

Safety makes the ritual more powerful because it keeps the nervous attention clean. You can relax into the challenge without wondering whether you have crossed too far. That is the calm authority of a well-held protocol.

Cold, Rest, And Equilibrium

Cold after heat completes the movement. In the hot phase, blood vessels open and blood moves toward the skin and muscles. In the cold phase, that blood is drawn back toward the core, bringing the body into a new kind of focus.

The source describes this as a movement from the outside to the inside. Heat sends blood toward the periphery, where it can gather waste products from tissues. Cold then sends it back through the organs that help filter and clear, provided hydration supports the process.

You're exploring the edges of your physiology here.

The liver and kidneys matter here because they are part of the body’s clearing system. When you are well hydrated, circulation through these organs supports the feeling of recovery after contrast. The outcome is not abstract; you feel cleaner, steadier, and more restored.

The cold phase does not need to be long. A plunge, a cold shower, or even cold air can serve the transition when the context is right. The point is to create a clear change, not to accumulate suffering.

Very cold water creates a stronger contraction at the surface of the body. Dr. Cohen notes that water below 12 degrees Celsius can produce a strong muscular vasoconstriction, drawing blood inward. In plain terms, the cold helps shift circulation toward the core so the body can recover with greater balance.

For many people, two or three minutes is enough. The cold can be brief because the body’s surface cools faster than the core. You are not trying to erase the warmth; you are using cold to organize it.

Rest is the phase many people miss. After heat and cold, the body needs time to return to equilibrium. Dr. Cohen recommends resting at least as long as the heat exposure, because this is where the practice settles into benefit.

The recovery space matters. A lounge chair, a mat, a hammock, dim light, or quiet music can create a sanctuary for stillness. The design does not need to be elaborate, but it needs intention.

In rest, you actively do nothing. This is different from leaving the sauna and immediately stepping back into traffic, work, conversation, or screens. The body has been challenged; now it needs a clear invitation to find balance.

Homeostasis is the word for that return to balance, and the felt outcome is calm resilience. Hormones, brain waves, breath, temperature, and attention begin to settle together. You feel the value as presence, steadiness, and a wider capacity for the day ahead.

The still point is not passive. It is the recovery phase that allows contrast to become adaptation rather than stress piled on stress. Heat opens, cold closes, and rest teaches the body how to hold equilibrium.

The greatest movement comes from the stillest point.

Then the sequence can begin again. Rinse, heat, cold, rest, repeat is simple enough to remember and deep enough to refine for a lifetime. The ritual works because it returns you to the body, and the body knows the way back to balance.

Wim's Wise Words

A second take, from someone who's lived it.

If you take one thing from this, make it the rest. Heat and cold get the attention because they are vivid. Stillness is quieter, so it is easier to skip. In practice, that is where the ritual becomes useful.

I have seen more progress come from a calmer finish than from a harsher sauna. Leave the room before the session turns into a negotiation. Cool down with control. Then give yourself the same amount of time to sit, breathe, and let the body settle. That final pause is not a luxury; it is the part that teaches your system to return to balance.

Where I Would Start

Start with two rounds, not three. Rinse first. Take the heat until your breath becomes deliberate but steady. Use cold for a clean transition, not a performance. Then rest longer than you think you need.

That protocol sounds almost too simple, which is why it works. You can repeat it without turning the practice into a spreadsheet. If you want a broader frame for building the sequence, Contrast Therapy, Done Right is a useful companion.

The mistake I would avoid is chasing intensity because someone else can tolerate it. Your edge is not their edge. It changes with sleep, hydration, stress, training, and the temperature of the room itself. A dry sauna, a steam room, and a hot tub ask different things from the body. Treat the number on the wall as information, not instruction.

I like heat in the evening because it softens the day. Twenty minutes of sauna, done well, does what an evening drink pretends to do. It creates a boundary. It tells the nervous system that the work is complete. But that only holds if you stay present enough to leave at the right time.

Be precise with safety. Drink water before you begin. Keep alcohol out of the ritual. Stand up slowly. Notice dizziness early, not after it has made the decision for you. A refined practice is not dramatic. It is measured.

None of this replaces sleep, nutrition, or the quieter disciplines that make recovery possible. Sauna and cold can amplify resilience, but they cannot carry a body that is already depleted. If you are using contrast to recover, let recovery lead the protocol.

The best session is the one you can repeat tomorrow with respect. Warm the body. Cool the body. Then let stillness finish the work.