Voluntary stress becomes useful when breath, cold, and attention are practiced with precision. In this conversation from the source, the useful thread is not novelty. It is agency: what the body can learn when the signal is clear and the dose is respected.
hey this is Newark renegade pharmacist today I'm here with my good buddy Bart biermann's and we just this weekend hosted the wim HOF event in Barcelona so that's why Bart's here with me right now my place in Barcelona and it was a really amazing event and Bart shared the science behind the wim HOF method and it was super insightful really really interesting stuff so I'm just gonna find out a bit more about Bob what he does is background and he's going to talk in depth the key points about the science behind the wim HOF method so but super excited that Horace to have you and I like to talk about it I'd like to spread the word and I'm glad with your invitation to just before catching my flight back to Amsterdam to do a short tutorial excellent so tell me a little bit more about yourself what you do I know you're a doctor yes my own clinics for cosmetic medicine but now changing my career more to the holistic things in life this year will be holistic therapy it's like a little therapy maybe you know yeah and I'm helping way mouths with the international workshops and do my own workshops and weekend so it's an exciting time lots lots changing and I'm happy to be part of the family and spread the word yes that's it so how did you get into the wim HOF method in the first place actually it's a really funny story I I was quite afraid of cold and I wanna I wanted to challenge myself so when wind came I'm Dutch television I was intrigued by his method because there was some science behind it but also because wanted to test myself in this cold and then I'm booked I booked the weekend and from the
I booked the weekend and from the weekend there was a week in the Pyrenees and after that I took the instructor course and graduated as a certified instructor in 2015 Wow and then I started everything when in a rollercoaster and yes being so much crazy stuff I did some stuff for Dutch television and yoga schools athletes so companies so it's very diverse field of play and I like it I like different aspects Wow anything yeah so did you yourself like see many transformations by sharing this technique have you seen what sir yes yes I was very course I did teach you to four people but I also the instructor course there were a lot of instructors that also did it because of their health issues and we yeah we saw some amazing recoveries and what is important to say it's like it it doesn't not always cures the disease but it makes the symptoms less and more bearable and it's a good alternative for medicine in many ways without side effects obviously without a side of here and it's like feeling is understanding so you just challenge yourself be your own scientist and start reading and see what happens in your body and you you can see for yourself if it works out or not not always works out for everybody it's like you know not possible but for a lot of people they benefit in one way of the other because the benefits are a lot there are a lot of benefits from from for your sleep for anxiety cardiovascular system athletic performance
your immune system so you can just get what you want from it so is a great prevention tool like if you want to basically prevent the chances of the risk factors associated with getting chronic illnesses yes there's no science behind that statement but it's more that you experience more more powering yourself more health in ways of not getting the flu and so it's very tangible you can you know you can really notice in your body changes in in a lot of aspects in there from for me that's more important than science to be honest yeah yeah so yeah as a pharmacist and your doctor would be great to actually go deep into the science part of my mouth method what is actually fat what's fiction and to like apply this to to health and general health and well-being okay so tell me about the the women after them so like obviously we know there's some three main components and let's go through the first component the breath work yes I always call it the first pillar that is the breathing is there actually most research is based on the breathing and not on the coal okay so that's important to know so the breathing everybody can do it that's the most important I think that's a good good message also because sometimes the cold for some countries it's more difficult of course to have that really intense cold I Thailand where I live yeah so don't worry you can just breathing in most of Sciences behind the breathing and the breathing what happens during the breathing is very interesting what I always try to explain it's a deep breathing it's not a fast breathing people associated with hyperventilation and this is just thorough ventilation
and this is just thorough ventilation you know you can also turn it around and say we always hai prevented ventilating so we're not breathing fully you know and now you're going to fully breathe and that makes that you co2 level drops a little in your body your o2 level during the practice drops and those changes in those two components they initiate the cascade of events in your body okay sometimes happy hormones are released from the pituitary gland in your brain like DMT dopamine endorphins and death can be associated with a lower consciousness during breathing you're entering different layers of your brain that can get you to parts of yourself and your brain that were not assessed accessible before so that's for some people who are not really practicing like you pranayama breathing or something their first real spiritual experience and that's within ten minutes so that's really strong thing about the method that everybody can do it and you can be there in ten minutes this is just from the the first bit the power breathing bit yes yeah so it's it's a way breathing is a way and because of the time I cannot get in really in that but breathing is a way there are three different type so brain it's the human brain that makes us human with a lot of belief and conditioning and but also like higher functions like for verbalization imagining and that kind of stuff then you have the emotional brain it's under there it's you top layers to a human brain and you have the emotional brain and that is yeah what it says emotional emotions are centered there and you get a reptilian brain with many primitive functions like the five response will command that later with the pillar of the cold it's the
the pillar of the cold it's the important one and that's really reptilian brain like it says it's the most primitive brain and a lot of times those three brains are not integrated and you're in one of the brains is overpowering the others so it's not imbalance you know and then fears come in and other you know this balance is in your mental health and with breathing you reconnect those three parts and maybe you can remember from from Mariana that you go to some emotions so you're leaving the conscious mind your human brain you deep dive into emotional brain you know and by just sheer doing that you integrate those parts and that's a very powerful thing about the breathing means you're integrating all those parts of your brain so you get more out of numbers more strong more healthy more also mentally fit for all the task life will present you ok so this is the first part of the breathing say you're you're basically doing this circular connected breathing and you are breathing out of the co2 living in more oxygen yes and so this is obviously going to make the pH of the blood it's slightly more alkaline yes what you're a funny guy you want to really do scientific details I do I will give you the ones yes because of the breathing you make the body more alkaline and there are suggestions that an alkaline body is good for you and but moreover that we are we have a lot of acidity you know system because of Western things like stress and that's not really Western but stress pollution red meat smoking so these are really nice matter to come to balance those acidity attacks on your body and you can really test it out yourself so for you guys listening now or watching this video by some th trips P on it before you go to do the
P on it before you go to do the breathing and then after and you will see if you do it right because it's also a nice test if you can be reading right you will it will change in pH point sometimes three so it's really significant it's mind blowing actually really make that difference so that's the first phase and then now basically you brew prevail become doctor so let's talk about the role of carbon dioxide and then how that relates to the next phase yeah but that's more a hypothesis it is like that that you lower those you two and then a cascade of reactions with hormones like the happy hormones we talked about the DMT and stuff and that thing we don't have really clear yet scientifically you know so the the science behind this I will try to explain it very clear and everybody to understand is that we we get a research whether we're dead bacteria and we made two groups were to test one group or trained by whim and one one group control group and we injected that dead bacteria and then several tests where one test they checked every element cortisol levels and they were with the way mouth-breathing group significantly different higher adrenaline levels and the cortisol peak went to baseline more quick yes but that's not what I want you to take home it's more that we adrenaline and cortisol are substances released by your autonomic nervous system and it's in the name autonomous you cannot control it and with this test we we saw that we can control so we can
we we saw that we can control so we can influence that whenever cortisol level and those levels will trade off all kind of other mechanisms in the body but moreover what was even more interesting and also maybe I think even more relevant to health care system because we really wants to have a paradigm shift in the health care system is that you can influence your immune system and what we saw is that the group trained by wim HOF has less white blood cells and the place of infection so he lowered on the wire with the white blood cells and that is interesting for example autoimmune diseases because then your own body attacks yourself and your immune system is way too active so this might be a solution for for these kind of diseases that's really really promising if we can get strong research behind this then then I think the insurance companies will be fighting to implement this method nice so we have the the circular breathing bit and then you hold your breath as long as possible mm-hmm all right so this is the video talking about that place yeah everybody has anything what is that breathing you know so practically it sits like 30 deep breath breath and through the belly and then belly chest being careful don't get too much in your mind with how to do it deep breathe deep breathing that's important then you breathe out and you stop breathing and and then you wait for the feeling that you have to breathe and it's important to notice because of your co2 level increases in the body yes because you don't breathe and your tissue is producing co2 and at a certain level you
producing co2 and at a certain level you feel I have to breathe and that's your co2 level a lot of people don't know that it's not it's really strange actually because you cannot do long without oxygen but there's no measurement in the body whatsoever mmm so that's in a way but it kind of strange its measured by the co2 but it's like that and then the first breath in is fully in hold for 15 seconds I mostly say as long as you like you know because when you do that last breath hold a lot can happen that's the moment that you really an enter a deeper layer of your breathing and if there's a spectacular entering why stop with 15 seconds yeah that's what I always say like this first retention is as long as you can but don't force the second retention so breath hold it as long as you like and actually you get like this kind of euphoric feeling when you hold your breath yeah to beyond a certain point and that's obviously the adrenaline and DMT and what I have to say because this is broadcasted on your website you don't know who you will reach but this is a man that you really have to apply on your yoga mat because you're entering deeper layers of the brain the subconscious layers you don't want to be in a swimming pool you don't want to be a here so it's important really important if you gonna practice alone then that you do it then it's safe although I always recommend a workshop because then we can also there are some things concerning health or look at all that in a fire website wim HOF method what what when you can do it and when you cannot do it you know it's shall we go to the
do it you know it's shall we go to the second yeah because I gotta catch my plane yeah that is the cool that's a pillar for I think it's quite easy to explain what happens when you entering the coal and it really depends what is cold you know is a cold shower cold and what is a cold shower a nice but for sure it's cold yes and I think all the water under ten degrees is pretty cold and will give you a nice shock because that is what is important about the cold exposure is is this is the shock I think that most importance that you get into five flight response that means you want to fight flight or you fry it or you freeze and it's a primal response in animal kingdom and it's based on survival you know if antelope is attacked by a lion and then he can fight most antelope doesn't do but a lot of prey will fight if it's there's no way out they can fly it run away most prey do and a lot of thing it is fright freeze do you have any idea why you would do that well what is your higher chance of survival if you freeze well it's almost like in Sabu and I think there are two practical aspects and it's really I think it's really nice to share it is like if a prey freezes and for example how the suckers dead yes he adds like is dead so maybe the line makes a mistake and leave it for a few minute out of sight and he's gone but the second one is more even more important it's in a free state you're in a subconscious layer of your mind most
subconscious layer of your mind most prey are eaten alive so it's good that they go in a free state so that they don't have they don't experience the ping when you're yes so that was a really interesting also has a pain relief yes yes so that's what happen if you go into the ice bath you you will get into that fight flood you will release all the hormones so after the ice but you will feel of your tripping on your happy hormones again so that's a really nice feeling but the essence of an ice bath is that you encounter the most strong stress response in animal kingdom and you learn the body to stay relaxed into that to ease into bed yes so the breathing goes up and you try to slow the breathing down yes and it's important that you trust yourself and let your focus on this on a hot spot like wim always terms here but I like it it's less cool but here in my opinion is more strong than others yes but no I put my fist or my office and I press it on my heart and I by the pressure I get my attention there you know so for me it's also really powerful when I see people struggling I take their hands and I put my hand on them and I pressed and I'm with them and that is always magical they they let go yes because it's also important that you let go you don't push through it and there's a mental game I play with my people that are in the ice but I always say you can only go out of the ice bar if you don't have to go out anymore mmm otherwise you can push yourself through through that end two minutes and now you have to let go so that's and that's the powerful thing about this you teach the body to let go in the most ultimate stress response so if you do it more and more you teach the body how to
more and more you teach the body how to respond on stress and you know how many sicknesses are now around because of stress so if you de-stress yourself by taking the ice bath and teaching your body how to react on stress you can take it way home with every situation with a friend not swearing at you or it's fine you know you can all the stress response you now learn okay I can breathe through I gotta relax I gotta let go okay oh it's not bad yeah you know it makes you more resilient to stress yeah so that is the thing of the cold I think that is the most important and of course if you want to be wind off if you really training with the cold but then you need that cold climate or a really cold shower you're more resilient to the cold and your body can take care of the cold you know you have to get yourself out of the condition control temperature environment to let the body know how to activate that's also new knowledge how to activate brown fat mmm and with brown fat you can easily get energy out of your body to heat up your body yeah interesting shall we go to the last pillar yeah good yeah last pillar is the mindset and I think the mindset is the most important pillar but also the less tangible pillar you know like reading into this cold you do this what is mindset you know so that is feeling is understanding it is just by doing and it's also just by not doing you know by just training with the cold and with the breathing you automatically go into those deeper layers of consciousness and it's more like do nothing not go in that mind of rambling thoughts huh but let intuitively the body get to the answers
intuitively the body get to the answers so and that is you will do that automatically by the breathing you go subconscious layer by release yourself into that eyes you go to that so it's it's not a tangible one it's something that will evolve if you're open to it so the mindset of course you'll have to have certain mindsets like a strong mindset that you of discipline that you want to do to get deeper into the practice like with every practice you know that as well if you're not resilient you don't get the fruits or at least not the maximum fruits you can get out of it so there is an important one so I always tell my clients like strong attention one month every day and then we talk you know see what it brings you and then you hold the benefits will outweigh they say do it every day although I think when you look at it it's important that the breathing you integrated so in your day that it's pleasure pleasure you know it's something you look forward to so if you need nice Orioles for the smell or you need nice music or you need a nice your favorite pillow or whatsoever just bring it all together that you really feel like this is my moment of peace my twenty moment twenty minutes thirty minutes of breathing and then you can integrate it in your daily routine and then you get the maximum benefit yeah great great so is there anything you want to add like mood to this way as any goddess yes I'm in fact so yes the last research it's called brain of a body and I think that's a nice conclusion to this talk that and I can illustrate it with
talk that and I can illustrate it with with the placebo effect the perceiver effect as a renegade pharmacist you're familiar with it it means you give a group of patients a pill with a substance that will cure them like with the medicine and the other group of people you give a pill with without anything in it the sugar pill a sugar pill yes yeah and what we see in many research is that the people who get the sugar pill have more improvement on their sickness and people who get the real pill so if you if I can put this into words it is that people you give them the imagination that they can get better from a pill they don't know that there's nothing in of course and they get better so that proves the power of the mind and I think for the paradigm shift to happen that we are going to look different at health we don't have to do all medicine away and there antibiotics for example made it possible to do a great skill of getting infectious disease out so I think it yes it has a place for sure but I think for chronical disease it's really time to to shift the paradigm and look at different methods for healing and health and we have to reevaluate what is health and how can we keep our health yes and it's not only preventive it's also a different way of looking at it mmm and that's why as a doctor that's my mission with women chose to get the word out and I'm honored to to be in this position and meet so much interesting people that are also the world is ready for it people are ready for it health costs Perry spiraling out of control people are open for alternative so I think this is also the right time
so I think this is also the right time for women half method to spread the world yes and I'm happy so just to summarize them so bar is a doctor and he is a wim HOF instructor his mission is spraying this more awareness of wim HOF method to as many people as possible and just to go over the size quickly the first pillar which is the breath work phase is it's really about positive stress response and Creighton is cascade of positive hormones in the body that builds resilience of stress same thing the second phase which is the cold therapy you are suggesting yourself to a positive shot of stress for short bursts of time again makes you more resilient to stress and then the first faith third phase is the mindset and power of intention and basically overcoming your fears and becoming more resilient control of your thoughts and your moods so I think that was a summary video yeah and the brain over body is a really fantastic study you can see more of the information about that in this article it's below this video or on my website at running a pharmacist talk on if you're watching this on youtube or in the facebook group been great having you here Bob it's been amazing here and I'm sure we're gonna be doing lots of events together in the future it will be great excellent all right so where do you find out about you my website is ice men training and dog and our nice butt yeah like Iceman and then training him but that's a Dutch word but maybe we can do something I was happily for you you basically do like coaching with people yes it's like I said in the beginning it's very diverse and
beginning it's very diverse and yeah I'd like to give day workshops I'd like to give the weekends I like to see swim and everything that comes on my path and I can inspire people with and I think my next focus will be corporate you know it's because I think there's a lot of power and we we can positively influence the people by getting them more conscious no I get big changes yes love it beautiful all right so reading a pharmacist and Bobby Mann's jeez
Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.
Deep breathing changes carbon dioxide tolerance, oxygen availability, and autonomic tone. In plain language, it gives the nervous system a direct signal to become alert without becoming chaotic. The felt shift is clarity: more presence, more energy, and a steadier relationship with intensity.
cold exposure is hormesis in a very honest form. The body meets a short stressor, constricts blood vessels, sharpens attention, and then adapts. Practiced calmly, the cold becomes less about endurance and more about learning how quickly the system can return to order.
The conversation points toward a central principle of mind-body science: immune activity and nervous system state are connected. Breath and cold do not replace care, rest, or medicine. They give the body a repeatable way to practice regulation.
Breathwork belongs seated or lying down, never in water or while driving. Cold works best in measured doses. The ritual should leave you more capable, not depleted.
The body adapts best when the challenge is deliberate and the return to calm is protected.
Practice breathwork in a safe position before any cold exposure.
Use short, repeatable cold doses and leave while your breath is still organized.
Measure success by composure, clarity, and consistency rather than duration.
