Recovery has become an industry. Massage guns, compression boots, infrared devices, cold plunges, red light panels — each promises to accelerate what the body does on its own. Kate Lyman and Michael from the How To: Fitness Podcast spend 42 minutes asking the question that the industry prefers you not ask too carefully: what does the research actually say?
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Needing recovery is pretty much a privilege. You've used a massage gun, right, Kate? Of course. I love these things. So, I don't want you to tell me they're not helpful. Just kidding. You tell I want to hear, but like is just not doing anything recovery. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the How to Fitness podcast. I'm Kate Lyman and I'm Michael EA and we have a deep dive today. Michael, it's all you. I'm actually coming in like quite blind to this one. I had said, "Michael, this would be a good topic for you and then immediately put it out of my head and now we're talking about it." Yeah, we have uh we have like a little list of like stuff we want to cover and this one had like big brackets like Michael would be good for this one. I took it as like a strong hint that you wanted me to do it, Kate. So, here we are. I didn't want you to. I just felt like oh that'd be good. I felt like I'm not going to talk about this topic so someone has to. I like it. It's also funny as I was prepping my office for this recording, I had to like physically dust off my microphone for today as well. So, I feel like I'm really prepared. I've gone through the motions. We've got a good solid script ready to go. I'm I'm so excited. It's going to be good. There's a little bit of crossover, I will say, of an episode I did in the past about cold water immersion, which I will touch on later today, but it's a timely topic, one that people are always interested in. So, I hope people enjoy it. I'm I for one think I'm going to learn a lot. I hope so. I'm I'm here to learn. Do you? I hope so. Yeah. So, before we dive in, once again, the bit that we always forget to do, Kate, um if you've been enjoying these episodes, um please give us a little review. I know that some platforms don't allow a review. They just like a little star button thing. We love the stars. Yeah. anything you can do to help boost our podcast, um please do. I'd really appreciate it. Share it with someone you love. Um and hopefully they will love it
love. Um and hopefully they will love it too. Let's do it. Okay, cool. Um so today's deep dive is into basically the recovery industry. Um whatever you kind of want to call that. You could argue that it's part of like the biohacking industry or the wellness industry or it probably fits under a lot of brackets. So I thought what we should probably do is like set the scene, describe like what recovery actually is. So we'll define it first of all because the industry loves to kind of skip over that part. We just kind of see the flashy headlines of of what products people are selling us without actually kind of what is the intention here behind all of these practices. So recovery is your body returning to baseline and adapting to training so that you come back stronger next time. So that that's kind of it in a very short sentence. Um so basically means like refilling muscle glycogen stores, repairing tissue, uh restoring nervous system balance, resolving inflammation from training and just letting your brain kind of chill out enough to recover post uh whatever you are doing. Um it's not like laying in a flotation device listening to cold cold play. I was going to say cold play. That feels very random. Why did I choose Coldplay? I actually this is very off topic, Kate. I really don't like Coldplay. I I was just going to say I know that you hate Cold Place. That's weird that it come came in front front of mind for you. Maybe just cuz it kind of felt like nothing music. Oh, lowb blow where it just kind of like Yeah. in a flirtation device. I don't know. There's something about that band that rubs me up the wrong way. Don't know what it is, but it's it's I love that I know this about you and like I know it like so strongly. Like what does Michael feel strongly about? Oh, he does not like Cold Play. So, I am usually of the opinion like if you love it, amazing. I'm happy for you. But for some reason, Coldplay just doesn't sit in that bracket. I I will judge you if you like Coldplay. Sorry to all the Coldplay lovers that listening to this episode. I'm sure they forgive you. I did do one of those flotation things once. Have you? I've never tried them before. Okay, this is just a me experience, so this does not translate to anyone else. I hate being still. I hate sitting with
I hate being still. I hate sitting with my thoughts. I hate being quiet and in quiet. And I did this thing, this flotation pod, and I got in and you're just you just lay there, right? And there was music, but it was like spa music. It was not cold play. Okay. I'd rather listen to spa music. It was like 4 minutes in where I was like, "This is my worst nightmare." How long was were you in there for? I think it was supposed to be like 30. Oh no. And I was struggling with like the not moving part and I had touched my face actually on accident and in doing so it's all salt water right like that's how the flotation works. I got the salt in my eye and my eye really hurt and I was like sitting there trying to like be okay. I wore contacts at the time so you know that how that is like it's like way worse. It gets under your eye and I was just like this is the worst torture of my life. and I got out and then I went to look at the the timer and it was like six minutes and I was like, "Wow, I paid a lot of money to just completely fail." And then I never returned. And so that was my experience. I'm not saying it's bad. It just at the moment was not for me. And I kind of felt like I was it was a punishment. The people running the clinic expecting to like lift the lid and you're like really zen, but you're not just you're just freaking out cuz you got salt water in your eye. Well, and he was a friend who owned the clinic and like award Yeah. And I so I just sat in the room for the full 30 minutes to like make it seem like I did it. Oh, did you? Wow. Okay. Yeah, you're too kind, Kate. Too kind. All right. Anyway, sorry that was a tangent, but I assume that's also kind of relevant to It kind of is. Yeah, we we digress. And so here's the headline I guess that I will repeat a lot throughout this episode is that most of your recovery will come from sleep, fueling your body well, hydration, um like the sensible training load uh and like managing your intensity of movement as well. Like those account for the overwhelming majority of the results
overwhelming majority of the results that people are going to have when it comes to recovery. Probably like 99% of what people are going to have for recovery. I know. I thought I'd just kind of set the tone at the start of this episode, Kate. And everything else bring it bring the excitement down from the get-go. Yeah. Seven minutes in, we could just kind of turn turn the episode off now. Yeah. Like and everything else is just like a little garnish on top, right, of just like the little extras. Some garnish is good. Uh others, yeah, they just ruin a meal. Let's put it that way. So, yeah, let's let's just kind of set people's expectations of uh at the start of this episode of kind of how most of this will go. But that doesn't mean that all these recovery tools are useless, you know. So, how did we get here first of all? So, how do we end up with recovery as being like an identity of so much of the fitness industry? And so, historically, tools like compression, cold, massage, um, and even heat uh, lived in elite sport and physio clinics. And then along came social media, biohackings, celebrity montages, and an ever growing wellness industry spearheaded by Gwyneith Paltro and many other celebrities that are guilty. We couldn't not have a dig at Gwyneth Paltro if we're talking about recovery, but but throw Brian Johnson in the mix. Yeah. And Brian Johnson. Yeah. And it's maybe not all their fault, but what are you going to do? We're still going to blame them cuz we're not fans at all. And recovery, just like fitness and nutrition, has slowly become something kind of that you perform. like it's it's not focusing on what generally matters. It does become a little bit of a performance like I don't need to rest. I can engineer rest or whatever kind of nonsense these people come out with. And there's also a psychology here where when life feels chaotic, um buying something or like using a device gives you a little bit more control. You're actually doing something. Um and doing something often feels better than admitting that you need 8 hours of sleep and like a nutrient-dense sandwich. You know, I I think um as you're talking through this, like what comes up also for me is like rituals are nice to have. So like having a recovery ritual could feel really comforting.
really comforting. Um even if like maybe it does aid in recovery because you do slow down for a moment for yourself. Um but it's less because of the red light therapy and more because you took a minute to relax, you know. Yeah, completely agree. And and also on that topic as well, like placebo matters, you know, like placebo is huge. Um so if something feels good and you relax, that's a win cuz if you relax subjectively, like you're subjectively you're going to be recovering better. Um and that's valid. Um we will talk about this a little bit, but it's it's not the same as like physiological recovery, but if that helps, then who am I to knock it, you know? Right. Yeah. There we go. Kate, how do you recover? I guess I should probably ask like what's your like main recovery tool here? Um I am very protective of my sleep like as much as one can be right given to especially with a toddler who is going to bed later and I do wake myself up early and come to my office really early. So, like within the constraints of my schedule, I I do try to be as protective as I can of my sleep. And that's like kind of one of my top priorities in all of life because I recognize how much better or worse I feel depending on sleep. You know this very well. Um, other than that, I take rest days from my training and I still refuse to stretch even after your stretching episode. And that is the extent of my recovery. I drink a I mean like my normal habits are kind of my my recovery approach. Like I eat after I work out, which is mainly hunger management strategy for me, but um I drink a lot of water. Kind of the boring stuff. Nice. So no like goat yoga or anything crazy like this. Yoga like like not like love it for everyone else, but it kind of comes down to the like like I feel like we'll get more hate for that than me saying I hate coplay. This could split the foundation for other people. I just like the stillness and quiet
I just like the stillness and quiet isn't isn't it's it's not my favorite. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I guess cuz I don't love cold play for other people. I just judge it. That's the difference. I'm not judging anyone. I love that everyone else loves yoga. And I wish actually once I went I used to go to what was called a power flow espresso hot yoga class. And so it was too many. No, it wasn't how great it was. It was short. It was 40 minutes instead of an hour. It was fast. Like you didn't hold poses. It was kind of like a workout. And it was in a hot room. And they played like rock music or something. And I was like, this is what I can do. Like this is the this I need to relax whilst people are shouting at me. This like it like wasn't relaxing. And so that's probably why I liked it. Anyway, I would say protective being protective of my sleep and I take rest days and I if I need an extra rest day, I just take it and I just move my training appropriately. I like that. Or skip or whatever. I like it. We I used to have a good friend of mine um was is a yoga teacher and we used to trade personal training in person sessions for onetoone yoga classes. Um and she did like yin yoga mostly um which is like the slow I don't know Yeah. I don't know a lot about yoga, so I apologize if I'm butchering this, but yeah, like long static holds. Um, and then at the end was like a relaxation bit. And we've both admitted, okay, we don't like stretching. We kind of do it cuz we're supposed to occasionally, but I really liked the lying down for 10 minutes at the end. That was always my favorite. Like a mini nap. Yeah, like a little mini nap at the end before I went on with my day. That's that was Yeah, I could get on board without yoga. Just like a 10-minute nap class. I'm in. That's Michael creates a new form of recovery like quick shiobasa and that's it. Love it. Rebrand napping as something snappy and you you've got a business. You're a biohacker now. There we go. Channel in awinith and we'll make millions. Kate totally.
totally. Cool. So, okay. Your your recovery tools are pretty boring in the best way possible. Kate, it sounds like you're doing things right. So, basically in this episode, I'm going to run through like the major players of the recovery world. I feel like we need a better name for the I don't really know what you call the recovery world, but just like the recovery scene. Wait, let me first say, let me just add in because I don't know what you're going to talk about tool wise, but here's what I wish I had as these recovery tools. Okay. The Normate Techch boots. Have you ever put those on? We talk about these. Yeah. I've never worn them before. Oh my gosh, it's they're amazing. I like I don't know about function like like the the efficacy of them which I'm excited to learn but they feel so great and when I was in my ultra running days I would use I had a friend with the normch boots and I would like put those norm boots on. Um I also we've talked about this before too. I love a sauna. I don't even know if that's supposed to be a recovery tool but the hot cold thing. Yeah. I could be into that as recovery. Currently, I've only done it like as fun. We talk about like infrared sauners in this as well. Will Should we start with the like the compression boots then? Seeing as you just touched on that, we'll kind of rejig it around a little bit. Um, so for anyone who isn't aware, you've probably seen people on social media sat there with their feet in these kind of like big inflated boots. If you haven't, it's fine. But they they're they're growing in popularity, I think. And they're basically hollow fabric boots that cover the feet, lower legs, and thighs. And it contains multiple chambers. Um, each of these sleeves fills with air one after the other to compress or squeeze one section of the lower body at a time, starting at the feet and working up towards the hip. Um, please interrupt me, Kate, if I'm not getting this correct cuz I've never done it before. Yeah. Exactly. So this process is called intermittent pneumatic compression or IPC and medical professionals have long used it to reduce foot and leg swelling in patients
reduce foot and leg swelling in patients with serious health conditions such as lympadeema, uh deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolisms. Um and in patients with edema, compression boots help push deoxxygenated blood from the lower body back up towards the heart. So kind of like squeezing a tooth a tube of toothpaste. Is that what it feels like? Exactly what it feels like. Okay, great. So in in athletes, intermittent pneumatic compression largely works the same way, but the toothpaste in question isn't just the blood. It's like post exercise inflammation that it carries is kind of the the thought process here. So compression boots help move the bad I'm using air quotes, bad metabolic byproducts from the lower leg uh into the circulatory system to be pumped throughout the body um and replace it with new and freshly oxygenated blood, which promotes an environment for muscular healing and recovery. You can tell I'm reading this off a website that was trying to sell it. I was going to say, wait, is that what it actually does or is that what it says it does? This is what it says. I This is from the Nike website. They had like an article on promoting the benefits of um of these compression boots. And to be honest, I read that and I was sold. I wanted to give it a go. So, what does the research say about this? So, it claims that it improves circulation, reduces soreness, faster recovery, and like 30 minutes or so. How long did you use them for? There was there's like a timer on them. So, probably like that. probably that yeah I think yeah I'd say there's there's a few different brands and I think a different approaches so um so there was a study worth flagging and it's the effects of lower limb intermittent pneumatic compression on sports recovery and the headline basically was the boots produced small to trivial improvements in muscle function and small to moderate reductions in perceived soreness but the effects on objective muscle damage markers like CK levels were a little bit all over the place um interestingly the most commonly used protocols in the studies were 20 to 30 minutes. It kind of gave the amount of pressure which I know listeners probably aren't that interested in. But the general takeaway is that yes, the tech may help you to feel less sore. Um, but it's far from a
feel less sore. Um, but it's far from a guarantee and don't expect it to dramatically boost next day performance at all because the results were pretty underwhelming. To kind of give a little bit of a tagline, if you love them and have them already or have easy access to them, they might be of benefit. But if you're choosing between boots and like a 30 minute walk with a good bit of protein for recovery, like I'd pick the walk and protein every time. It's I feel like if you're like a higher performance athlete and you can use it as an additional to everything else, it might have more of like an impact on the scale, but for the everyday person, yeah, the research isn't isn't looking too good. I feel like with this whole topic, it's almost like there's two camps and it's like, okay, what's actually going to create a physiological change in your body? I think you already said this before, versus what is like ritualistic or mental. And like when I said, oh, I love these Normatech boots. It's very much like you sit down in a loungey chair, lay back, put your pods in, and like listen to a book or something, and you get this like nice squeezy massage on your legs. Like as long as there's no negative Yeah. then we're good, you know? Like that's something that that is pure placebo or this like tiny what do you say like perceived change in soreness. Yeah. Um but it's not actually aiding our body in the recovery processes that it needs to go through for us to be healthy and safe and recover well. Not significantly. But he's saying that even after reading this I'm like I want to try this because it sounds delightful. It really is great. I'm not sell I never get it but like you have a friend with some Normatech boots and that's that's great. I imagine they're quite expensive, right? They have to be like these heavy duty thing. Yeah. Or like I've gone to I remember going to a physical therapist once and like while you wait for your appointment you can wear them. It's probably like not even a dose of time that is helpful, but
dose of time that is helpful, but sure. It's like being in a massage chair. Yeah, that's fair. This is kind of a trend over a lot of these topics, okay, that I'm talking about today is it's like the little 1% s might help. The one that I was going to start with, which we'll jump on to now, is whole body cryotherapy, which is basically like the giant freezer, right, if you're kind of putting it in everyday language. Um, and this one was quite interesting. Like the general pitch is reduced inflammation, accelerated recovery, boosting performance. Um, there's a lot of like burning calorie claims, um, and reversing aging. Um, I'm sure that Brian Johnson's probably a massive fan of, uh, probably spends a lot of time in these. Um, and there seems to be very limited evidence for the support of whole body cryotherapy, um, on muscle damage, insubstantial effect on muscle damage markers, markers of muscle regeneration. Like, it's all just a little bit meh. Um, there was a meta analysis on all of this and it's like when I was speaking if anyone's listened to our cold water immersion episode. Everyone does it for different temperatures and different times. So, it's really hard to find loads of research saying that this is awesome because there's so many different protocols that people follow. But this uh meta analysis just to kind of summarize it quite nicely on muscle soreness. There was some reductions in soreness 1 hour after um whole body cryotherapy. The data on like tiredness, well-being, strength, and power is like next to none. It's really sparse and inconclusive. Um, and the author's bottom line for a lot of this stuff is there's insufficient evidence to say whether whole body cryotherapy like reduces muscle soreness or improves subjective recovery after exercise. As with all of this research, hardly any research on women again. So, all of this needs to be taken um with a bucket load of salt. Um, and more research is needed. So, I wouldn't be throwing yourself into a freezing cold room expecting anything significant here. It's not wild to me because I know the wellness industry well. Mhm. But at the same time, it is kind of wild that this whole industry exists with like stores and storefronts that have these cryotherapy recovery chambers chambers when there is really no evidence because
when there is really no evidence because the marketing for such things will tell you there's a ton of evidence, right? like they exist and have memberships to these places because this will help you with inflammation, this will help you with your recovery, etc. But I guess like in my mind I'm going through like that's pretty wild to build these all these businesses on little to no data. Yeah. So it's it's really interesting in that because there's there's lots of data looking at like really specific markers of health and improvements of recovery and inflammation, all that kind of stuff. So you'll have some research papers being like, "Oh yeah, there was a significant impact there in reducing inflammation markers." But if you look at it on like the grand scale of everything that a human being does to promote recovery, like you just have to put it in context. And are these things worth the amount of money, the amount of time, the amount of effort? Like I'd always just put myself in the camp of no, like probably not. Like just go and chill out for a bit and take a nice walk. like it seems like that's just going to have far significant impact in comparison to all of this stuff that looks really fancy on social media. Yeah, I hope that can be almost like a comforting message because let's preface this whole conversation with the privilege to train hard frequently is just that a privilege. You have access to a gym and you have time to do such a thing. Like needing recovery is pretty much a privilege. Mhm. I mean I guess it could be your work, right? You could be like very like manual labor. um very like demanding physical work but for from the training perspective like it's a privilege to need recovery and then it's like complete elite privilege to feel like oh and now to recover I need a cryochamber and norm boots and red light infrared sauna sauna so I hope it can be also comforting to be like okay well like I can train hard and it's hard enough for me to put my energy and time into those things that I can also just do these free things to recover cover for myself. Agreed. And it's just the the social media impact, isn't it? Again, like it's the as I mentioned at the start, it's the performative nature of wellness now.
the performative nature of wellness now. Like it's just the the really effective things are so boring that this just looks way cooler. Um and then if you see your favorite sports person or favorite influencer using it, you'll think, "Oh, I I need to be doing that, too." And it's just a little bit wild. So, the next thing I was going to talk about is red light therapy. Um or photobiomodulation. um like kind of like the glow stick bed. I'm trying to think of like really like everyday language to describe these things. You've probably seen people once again on social media taking a selfie inside this kind of like red um kind of like a sunbed type thing. Once again, the pitch for these are quite uh wild. So, rechargeable mitochondria feels. Yeah, there we go. Reduces inflammation, faster tissue healing, perfect skin. I'm not going to talk on skin because it's not my area of expertise. However, I do think there is some research about red light therapy being beneficial in terms of skin health, but I'm not going to be talking about that today. Stronger lifts as well. There's claims about it kind of being able to make you get stronger, too. I'm just laughing as I'm saying this out loud cuz it's so ridiculous. Um, so let's talk about it a little bit. So, in the recovery world, the idea is pretty appealing. Like, red and near infrared light stimulate mitochondria, reducing oxidative stress and inflammation. And yes, there are actually some meta analysis and systematic reviews looking at this. Um, and they found that while photobiomodulation significantly reduced pain in injured athletes, it did not meaningfully reduce the time to return to play. So once again, it's kind of like a perceived benefit that seems to be at play here. Um, another meta analysis focused on running performance concluded that photobiomodulation alone or combined with training did not improve running time trials or time to exhaustion. Um, and yet another very recent systematic review on whole body uh photobiomodulation found no meaningful evidence for improved exercise recovery or performance. Um, so it might help you feel a little bit less sore um and feel good, but benefit in terms of practical usage, no, not very much.
no, not very much. Two things I'm thinking about here is one, I'm going to say this with like take this with a grain of salt. I'm going to look at the literature more because now I'm really interested. I have read a good amount about um or heard read both good amount about red light therapy in this same context for like pelvic health recovery. So I'm now I'm really interested to look further. Second thing is I'm just like throwing out what's in my brain by the Michael. I think you get that by now. Um, if you're say we're talking about an NBA star, an elite athlete, so peak performance, training, nutrition, sleep, it's all they kind of have it down and that is life. It's optimized. Do we think that the boots, the cryo, the red light, infrared sauna, etc. Do we think those then like move the needle for these individuals? I think they do. Yeah, I I personally think they do. I think when you're playing at that level, like I see like a few like Premier League football players and stuff / s soccer players using them and you think like when that like 0. 1% difference is the difference between you getting there and stopping a shot on goal and not like it's if that's going to help then fantastic. Um but for the everyday person, no. Um, I'm thinking in terms of like the rehab bit you just mentioned there. And I think if I'm just trying to kind of hypothesize here, like yeah, if you can use a tool that's going to make you feel less pain and feel better in order to then do rehab more effectively, then that's probably a good thing. So, yeah, there's a lot of whatifs here. Yeah. Well, I think it's just really helpful to talk through because I'm thinking through this like, okay, how does this conversation play into the industry? what we're told we need, what we're sold, what we're promised as a, you know, a byproduct of these different recovery uh mechanisms or products. And I think it's just it's like helpful to talk through and it's interesting to talk through and it's also a little of a gut check with ourselves like am I the level where I need this. 1% support? Yeah.
Yeah. or would this actually benefit me as something that gets me to slow down and like take my recovery seriously or whatever it may be. I think it's just um I think it's fun to talk through. Yeah. What What do we have next? I love this. This Yeah. So, next is kind of on the like red light therapy kind of line is infrared sauners. Um so unlike traditional saunas, infrared sauna don't heat the air around I didn't know this about I loved reading about this part cuz I actually didn't know how they worked. So infrared sauners don't heat the air around you. Instead, the infrared lamps, which use electromagnetic radiation, warm your body directly. I thought that was cool. These sauners use infrared panels instead of conventional heat to easily penetrate human tissue, heating up your body before heating up the air. An infrared sauna can operate at a lower temperature than a traditional sauna as well. Some of the claimed benefits here are, but this is a long list. uh better sleep, relaxation, detoxification, weight loss, relief from sore muscles, relief from joint pain such as arthritis, clear and tighter skin, improved circulation, and relief from chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms to change your life. Yeah, it really can. So, the the funny thing here is that there's a lot of claims like people have been using sauners for like thousands of years, right? And I think on the grand scheme of things like there's some benefits to doing them. There's very little research actually on infrared sauners directly. So trying to find research about like health benefits of infrared sauners, it kind of just always comes back to regular sauners and ties it all in together and it's like, yeah, sitting in a hot room can have some benefit. Um so it's actually really hard to find out whether these have added benefit compared to conventional um sauners. The research is just very very thin. Like some research has shown that using an infrared sauna may be beneficial for cardiovascular health after a workout. Um, but there's really a lack of solid evidence here. Um, so back to the conversation we're having quite a lot here. Is is the the sauna giving you a benefit or are you slowing down, sitting in a nice warm room, letting your body relax? Like it's all of these things
relax? Like it's all of these things that that's probably where the benefit is mostly coming from. There might be a little bit benefit from added heat, but it's it's probably just from slowing down on a slower pace. It's interesting that you can't even find much research. It kind of goes back to like, wow, there are industries created selling these, but we don't really know too much. I will say the one time I went into infrared sauna, I've done all of these things we've said, by the way. I've done all of them. Wow. Okay. And well, let me like give context. When I lived in Memphis, we were part of this fitness community, Diversifi. If any of you are listening, I love you all to death. You're like still my favorite people ever. And basically you got like when you had a fitness pass with them, you had a pass to all like a CrossFit gym plus a yoga studio plus a Pilates studio plus cycle studio plus the recovery place and blah blah, right? So like you got all of it and I was an instructor for them and did nutrition for a lot of them. So anyway, that is why I've done all of these things including the espresso hot flow power hot yoga whatever. Yeah. Um, but I will say that the time I did the infrared sauna, I went in so excited cuz I do love a sauna and then was really upset, like sad because it's not warm in there. I just remember being like, "Wow, I'm kind of cold." Like, you're just sitting in a room with light, but it's not like it's not the same. Like, I find a sauna so like, "Oh, this is See, I don't like being really hot." Like, I like warm weather, but I don't like I've never liked sitting in a sauna. feel it feels quite claustrophobic. It does. It was a little claustrophobic. Yeah. So maybe I prefer Yeah, maybe I would. So just to kind of like on the other end of the spectrum here is I' once again kind of link going to link to all this research in the show notes if anyone wants to delve deeper into any of these individual topics I'm talking about. But there was one um research paper that did come to the conclusion that a single post exercise infrared sauna session improved recovery of explosive strength capacities and decreased subjective muscle soreness. one day after
muscle soreness. one day after resistance exercise. So once again might have a good impact on how sore you are feeling um and then might boost recovery a little bit um but also it once again highlights that way more research is needed before any conclusions can um can be made. Interesting. Yeah, there we go. So, the last one that I'm going to touch on, I I did have a section here about um cold water immersion, but once again, if you can jump back to episode 60, I think it is, um titled cold water immersion, the chilling truth behind ice baths, um that will give you everything that you need to know about ice baths. But in short, there's a lot of wild claims again that just don't quite match up. The final one that I wanted to touch on was massage guns. Um have you of course you've used it. You've used a massage gun, right, Kate? Of course. I can just think of the most obscure recovery tool here and Kate would be like, "Yeah, done it." I Well, so I've actually had a massage gun. That's the only one that I've like purchased for myself. Um, and then I lent it to someone who never gave it back. So I do sometimes. I really miss that. Name and shame them, Kate. I think we should really call them out on this podcast. No. Instagram handle, everything. We want everyone to back. I'm just kidding. Um, I love these things. So, I don't want you to tell me they're not helpful. Just kidding. You tell I want to hear, but like that could not change that when you sit down in front of the TV for like 10 minutes on the floor and then like you massage your sore quads. Oh, so great. Yeah. So, there was a good systematic review on this actually in the journal of functional morphology and kinesiology which looked at the impact of massage guns on both performance and recovery. Um, and the authors found that while these devices can help improve short-term range of motion, flexibility, and recovery from fatigue, they did not enhance and in some cases even reduced strength and explosive power, agility, and balance. Um, so I think it kind of goes back to our stretching episode that we did, Kate, where I think that it might be a helpful recovery tool if used
might be a helpful recovery tool if used at the right time and not too close to a workout, for example. Um, so in short, like great for loosening up and recovering, but don't count on any like significant performance boost from like explosive power or anything because it's it's just a massage. A different way of kind of getting a nice massage. Yeah. Did you are we diving into massage in general here? I wasn't going to. No. Um, simply because the research is vast. I I couldn't cover that in a really short topic. I think we need actually a whole episode. We will actually sign postpost this kit. I think we should do a whole episode on like sports on sports massage. Um, and we could even maybe have someone come in and talk with us about it. Um, I I think with some of these topics I I don't want to shorthand it and jump to any conclusions too soon, but absolutely massage is one of the best recovery tools in terms of limiting soreness postworkout. Um, whether it has significant um kind of direct correlations in making you recover faster, I'm not sure. But in terms of feelings of fatigue, yeah, it's actually the research is pretty set in it helping there. That that's like that would be my peak. Like that I live in an ideal world. I have like a ma masseuse on hand. Yeah. Right. That just sounds amazing. I've never had No, I do. I'm just saying I've never had a nice massage before. Right. So, I've only ever had a sports massage, which if anyone listening who's had a sports massage, it's not relaxing. Oh, but that's all I like. I don't like a relaxed massage. Oh, okay. And then we had our sports massage. Oh, okay. You like kind of being beaten up a little bit. Yes. Okay. This this we won't read too much into this. Okay. I So, when we went on our honeymoon to Thailand, I had a Thai massage and I remember looking over at Emma and it looked like she was having a lovely time. And then whilst I was looking over Emma having a lovely time, the person giving me the massage was standing on my back and pulling my arms behind me and it just wasn't relaxing at all. So, I feel like I want to go and have a nice massage for once because I
have a nice massage for once because I think I would enjoy that for your birthday a lot more. Thank you, Kate. I'd appreciate it. One question I have for you as we're talking through I know this is your episode, but now I'm interviewing you. Get ready. Um, as we're talking through all this is I know that for you and I both, we have had pasts where our performance or our training was like a really big part of what we were doing. You've done an Iron Man. Um, I was ultra running at a time. You know, we've been competitive in sport and I know that we fast forward to right now and our our training is more like maintain fitness. Yeah. Just put clinging on to muscle. Don't leave me. Exactly. Yeah. It's like just keep the muscle mass and bone density. Yeah. um as we trudge through life. But I'm curious if your recovery like there has been a point where you were like recovery is everything and like this is a huge part of what I do and what that looked like for you like maybe at peak training. Uh yeah, I guess the two things that I always prioritized were which you mentioned start this episode was sleep. First of all, I always used to really pride myself in having such good sleep. I God, I see the sadness in your eyes. Yeah. Honestly, it's been a tough two and a half years. Kate, I used to when me and Emma used to go to bed, like if we were about to go to like get into bed, I'd have to if we were had to have a conversation about something or want to discuss anything, I used have to do it before lying down cuz I would touch that pillow and I was out like a Oh my gosh, Michael, we are the same. If Kenny tries to talk to me in bed, I'm like, "No, what are you doing? This is not a place for conversation." Yeah. And Emma would always joke cuz I would literally fall asleep like as soon as my head was down I fall asleep and I'd sleep great. Um I know there's a lot of people listening to this who have suffered with sleep who are probably kind of cursing at me right now. But that was the thing that I always was like a non-negotiable. I was like I'm getting my 8 hours at least. Um and protein and food like good food intake and protein was always like the two things um that I would really prioritize. Other than that I'm like I'm
prioritize. Other than that I'm like I'm a pretty laid-back person. I wasn't anyone who like went out drinking heavily. like to party hard. I'm pretty chill. So, as long as I had that time to sleep and I was eating good, like most of my progress was my recovery was sorted. I was also a bit younger, too. So, I guess it's a little bit easier to manage it. It is quite upsetting how much like how much more important it is to warm up for a workout or cool down. Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, my shoulders are not good unless I get them moving for a good 10 minutes before this workout." Exactly. like 10 years ago I could just hop out like roll out of bed into a CrossFit class and now I would just frankly die. Um Um yeah, it's interesting to hear cuz I just I can think of times where like I actively thought of recovery. Now I'm like I don't know. I don't even work out as much as I want. My life is more recovery then. Yeah. I think that's the same as like I would like to be working out more than I am. Agreed. Yeah. I I my recovery now is like life just forces me to not work out because I'm so busy and that's the time that I recover, you know. Yeah. I think we're probably in the same boat there, Kate. Yeah. But at the same time, it's like, okay, well, is just not doing anything recovery? Like, is just that I had to skip three days of workouts because I was too busy. Is that recovery? I think it probably is. Um, mentally, you're probably quite fatigued, but physically, yeah. Interesting. I would say the last six months is since our second son has arrived is I've never exercised less than this period. Um just because I'm so busy. So I don't really need to worry about factoring in rest days at all because I am just trying to squeeze in workouts whenever I can. Sad times. We'll get back to it. Kate, don't worry. And that's the How to Fitness podcast where Kate and Michael came away depressed. We We'll be back. We'll we'll reach our We're yet to reach our prime, Kate. I can feel it. We'll get there. I I really cling to that idea. So, thank you. Yeah, we will. Yeah. Do you have any That's We're really going off topic here. Do you have any like
here. Do you have any like goals in the back of your mind of like when life allows it, this fitness - wise I really want to achieve? Well, for me it's less time. Like time is totally a factor, but I have so like my I have all this birth injury nonsense that like I can't run well, but I want to. I can't lift anything lower body, like no hinging or squatting. So, that kind of takes away my strength training. Um, right now what I'm contemplating, I'm a very competitive person and I just want to compete in something even if it's with myself. I would really like to race mountain bikes because I think I could do it with my current like I've got this like nerve damage through my back that is really bothersome. I think maybe I could, but as I've like gotten on the bike more recently later lat lately my back has gotten worse. So I'm more injury prohibited right now. But in an ideal world, I would be back to running. And I have run ultras in the past and I have no literally no interest in a marathon, but I do have interest in ultramarathons. Awesome. Um, and racing a mountain bike. I like it. How about you? So, I've done Iron Man 70. 3s. I want to do the kind of full Iron Man in Emma's like, "Do it when you turn 40." I'm like, "That feels like a long way away." It's not. It's like 5 years. Um, but I'd like to do it before then. Yeah, it's it's too long. I'd like to do that before then. I've never done an ultramarathon. I would really like to do an ultramarathon. There's some really cool ones in Scotland here. I bet. Yeah. Like the scenery here is just beautiful. They do one that's called the Coast to Coast that's run by Rat Race. If anyone's listening on their phone and wants to check it out where it's like a mixture of running, mountain biking, and kayaking at the end, which looks You basically go from one side. Yes. You go from one side of Scotland to the other. I would love to do that. If you want to come over here and do that with me, K. I will do that with you. Done. There we go. Let's do that. I need to be able to run first, but then like like the videos of people doing it. It's just beautiful as well. Um, so that's kind of the back of mind. I would love to do that. So they're they're the two things.
that. So they're they're the two things. Yeah. Well, look out world. We're coming. I want to do that adventure race. Yeah. Well, interesting topic. I wish I was more concerned about recovery, but I think the takeaway is that we are doing a lot of the things already that aid in recovery and the other stuff could be nice um more from a mental standpoint than a physical one. Yeah. And there's lots of other things that we could put in those categories like PEMF mats, you know, like pin mats, um, like flotation tanks that you mentioned as well, Kate. Things like cupping and stuff like that where the research around like genuine benefit is quite minimal, but um, some people say that it makes them feel a lot better and they feel less sore and that all counts, you know. So, um, I think that's probably just the general takeaway. I did have some other bits I was going to cover, but we've kind of discussed it in between the episode. Just remember that recovery doesn't have to be sexy. Like it's doing all the really boring stuff all of the time. Usually the kind of sexier it looks, the worse the tool actually is in helping you recover. Um, so use tools if you have access to them. If you have the financial means to use them, then yeah, sure, give it a whirl. But don't get frustrated that you can't invest in recovery boots or infrared sauners because it's really not going to have that much of an impact. I kind of want to rebrand the idea of it being boring to being more doable. Yeah. Do the do like accessible. I like that. Yeah. Let's let's use that. Do the more accessible stuff. Um because hopefully you have I don't know water a water bottle. Yeah. A bed to sleep in. Yeah. Maybe your children sleep well. I don't know. If so, great. Send us tips. Yeah. Focus on your sleep. Make sure you're eating enough. And that's the large majority of the way. And then um just try and chill chill a little bit more, which is easier said than done sometimes, but it it helps. I loved this, Michael. I learned a good amount. Thank you, Kate. Much appreciated. I hope everyone listening has enjoyed the episode. Please do give us a review. If you enjoyed it, um even if you didn't
you enjoyed it, um even if you didn't enjoy it, please give us a nice review anyway. We'd really appreciate it. Anything else you want to cover here, Kate? No, that's it. We're always grateful for you for listening and we love continuing these conversations outside of the podcast, in DMs or emails. Um, you know, we always want to talk to you. So, thank you for listening. See you.
Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.
The answer is more nuanced than both the enthusiasts and the skeptics suggest. Some recovery modalities work well. Some work modestly. Some work primarily because the person using them believes they will. Understanding the difference allows for more intentional, more effective recovery practice.
Before any other recovery modality can be meaningfully evaluated, the baseline must be addressed: sleep is the most powerful recovery tool available, and no intervention compensates for its absence.
During slow-wave sleep, growth hormone pulses. Tissue repair accelerates. Memory consolidation occurs. Inflammation from training is resolved. The glymphatic system — the brain's waste-clearance network — operates primarily during sleep, clearing the metabolic byproducts of neural activity.
The data are unambiguous: chronic sleep restriction of even one to two hours per night produces measurable impairments in strength, power output, reaction time, decision-making, and immune function. Adding a massage gun to an inadequate sleep practice is not a meaningful recovery strategy.
cold water immersion protocols sits at the intersection of strong subjective experience and more modest objective evidence for many of the claims made on its behalf. Michael walks through the literature carefully.
Acute pain and soreness reduction: well-supported. The vasoconstriction and neural effects of cold reliably reduce the immediate sensation of post-exercise soreness. Perceived recovery: also well-supported — people feel better after cold. Long-term performance adaptation: more contested. Some studies show no significant advantage over other recovery methods; others show meaningful benefits for specific populations and training types.
The practical synthesis: the benefits of cold water immersion is a legitimate recovery tool for managing soreness and improving perceived readiness. Its performance-enhancing claims require more qualification, and its use should be timed carefully relative to strength training.
Massage has one of the oldest evidence bases in recovery science, and one of the more honest ones: it reliably reduces perceived soreness and improves mood, but its effects on objective performance markers are modest and inconsistent.
Massage guns extend this picture. The devices produce localized percussion that reduces tissue tension and improves short-term range of motion. Whether they produce outcomes meaningfully different from traditional massage or self-myofascial release is an open question. The evidence for dramatic performance enhancement from percussive therapy is thin.
This does not mean massage is not valuable. Reducing the subjective experience of soreness is a legitimate outcome — it affects training adherence, willingness to move, and quality of life. But calibrating expectations prevents over-investment in a tool that delivers comfort more reliably than it delivers performance.
Among the recovery modalities with consistently strong evidence, active recovery — low-intensity movement on rest days — stands out for its combination of effectiveness and accessibility.
Light aerobic work, walking, swimming, or yoga on rest days increases blood flow to muscle tissue, accelerates clearance of metabolic waste products, and reduces the stiffness associated with complete rest. The physiological mechanism is simple: movement helps the body move what needs to be moved.
The evidence comparing active recovery to passive recovery consistently favors the former for markers of readiness and soreness. And the cost is near zero: a twenty-minute walk or a gentle bike ride serves the same function as many tools that cost significantly more.
Needing recovery is pretty much a privilege. The fact that you trained hard enough to require it is worth acknowledging.
Sleep is the foundation. No recovery tool — cold, compression, massage — compensates for chronic sleep restriction. — Michael
Active recovery consistently outperforms passive rest in the literature. A twenty-minute walk is recovery. Sometimes the simplest tools are the best. — Kate Lyman
Prioritize sleep above all other recovery interventions. Eight hours in a cool, dark room is worth more than any device.
Use cold water immersion for soreness management and perceived recovery — it reliably delivers both. Time it carefully relative to strength training.
On rest days, move. Low-intensity active recovery outperforms passive rest for most markers of readiness. Walk, swim, stretch, or cycle gently.
