Longevity / Nutrient Density Is a Longevity Practice - Full Transcript

Nutrient Density Is a Longevity Practice

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Being overweight causes insulin resistance. It's pro-inflammatory. It raises estrogen and that causes breast and prostate cancer. So, having a male with a body fat above 15% and a female with a body fat above 25% is unhealthy. Dr. Joel Fuhrman is a physician and long-time leader in nutritional medicine, arguing that the real drivers of longevity are micronutrient density, low body fat, and foods with direct anti-cancer effects. If I was 200 calories over, after a year I would have gained 20 lbs. But, I don't gain 20 lbs cuz what the body does is that it resists weight gain by speeding up the metabolic rate to burn the extra calories you don't need. We don't want to speed up our metabolic rate. We want to slow down our metabolic rate so we age slower. So, is there a world where I take 12 weeks where I increase my caloric intake, I build up bigger muscle mass, have a higher BMR, and then I get the benefits of longevity? In the bodybuilding and training community, they're pushing for On today's Hack Your episode, Joel Fuhrman. Joel Fuhrman's been somebody who's been challenging the foundations of modern nutrition for decades. A board-certified physician and leading voice in nutritional medicine, known for his work on using food to prevent and even reverse chronic disease. What makes this conversation interesting is that the views directly challenge many of dominant trends in today's health and fitness space, from high-protein diets to performance-first nutrition. So, real question that we're trying today to answer, are we optimizing the wrong things when it comes to our health? For me, it was a very eye-opening episode. He goes into details about the potential harmful effects of over-consuming food, eating 3, 000-plus calories per day, and how the more you eat, the shorter your lifespan will be, and it's not, you know, going to be that good for you to have a whole load of muscle mass that you carry around on a day-to - day basis. Also goes into how you don't necessarily have to follow his diet step by step, but how introducing

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diet step by step, but how introducing some of the important foods such as fruits, vegetables, beans, seeds, nuts into your diet, these cancer-preventing foods can help you with disease prevention and overall longevity. Joel is a best-selling author, shared a lot of his insights and science that he found over years, including nutritarian diet approach. The diet that tells you what's the best way to eat from longevity perspective. One of the things that we realized today is there's a lot of data on body fat having direct impact on longevity, but not actually muscle mass. One of those things that are important to us is how do nutrition impact that? Micronutrients are actually the drivers of health much more than macronutrients. So, to understand the source of our food and what they give to our body has direct impact what we can perform, how we perform up to an older age. Okay, Joel, welcome to the Hack You podcast. Thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate your time. My pleasure. Looking forward to I was curious to know, for those people who aren't already aware, how did you get into what is you're doing now? When did it start? You mean the my skiing, my tennis, or what which kind of thing I'm doing now, you mean? No, but the the longevity and the the book writing and everything. Yeah. Well, um you know, I I've been in practice as a physician for more than 35 years. So, I I went to medical school with the specific intent of being a doctor who specializes in nutritional medicine, the reversal of disease through nutritional methods. So, I got into this in my teenage years. I was telling um you guys about me that I was um a professional figure skater. I was third in the world in in pair skating with my sister back in 1976 in the World Professional Championships in Huesca, Spain. You know, I I can So, I I studied and read books on nutrition

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I studied and read books on nutrition for goods for better stamina and you know, and endurance and not for not getting sick and I so I I read a lot of I was reading health books in my teenage years. So, then I when I was a little older, I was coaching and working in my father's footwear shoe business and I decided to go back to school again to to um cuz my passion was nutrition. And to go back So, I went back to the take the post graduate pre-med courses at Columbia and then go back to medical school not to be a standard medical doctor, but to be a nutritional specialist. But, I knew if I had a degree in medicine, it would help bolster my career in what I wanted to do. So, I've been doing this for like decades and obviously seen, you know, tens of thousands of patients, you know, read maybe 30 to 50, 000 scientific articles on human nutrition over the years and written 12 books, seven of which have become New York Times bestsellers incorporating, you know, thousands of research articles. One book, I maybe Eat for Life may have 2, 000 medical references, but it may have called, you know, 20, 000 medical references to pull the best 2, 000. So, I'm and I also have a research team. I have a nutritional research PhD that works for me for the last probably 15 years just to help me um support statements that are that when I make um talk about health and nutrition, it's well supported with the preponderance of evidence. So, everything what we're doing is evidence-based. And I was one of the original founding members of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, the only board certification um for physicians and allied health professionals who specialize in lifestyle and nutrition. So, that's so uh So, and So, in any case, to answer your question it to your question I got into this, you know, really when I was young and I just developed a passion for realizing that what you eat over your

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realizing that what you eat over your entire life spectrum affects your healthy life expectancy and your possibility of living to 100 years old or getting cancer or, you know, or maximizing your um intellectual and emotional performance in later life. So, I've been doing this my whole life, basically. Joel, the the interesting thing about what we're so excited to have you on is, obviously, because of your vast knowledge, there's a lot of things out there that are currently being pushed. Protein heavy, performance first. Um there's a lot of things about when we talk about interval interval eating and intermittent fasting. All those things, when going into the research and, you know, reading up on your statements, they're actually most of them are wrong. So, is it something that you feel that currently, because so many people have access to different kinds of sources, are people currently optimizing for the wrong things? And there's already proven things how to, as you said, live longer that we're we're trying to ignore that was proven decades ago? Yes, I I absolutely. I think there's so much nonsense, you know, all over the internet and podcasts where the evidence is really overwhelming and not controversial among nutritional scientists and people in the longevity field, for example, that eating more vegetables makes you live longer. And we're green vegetable dependent animal like the other primates. And so, but I think that even though like we have um many studies showing that um you know, if there's a thousand studies done on one subject, let's say the amount of green vegetables consumed and lower rates of cancer. Maybe a thousand studies done on that one subject alone. Um so you have people who have certain predetermined agendas trying to pull one study that they can claim shows something different, you know, and then re - not reviewing the

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you know, and then re - not reviewing the all the evidence on a particular subject, you know what I mean? It's and so I think when you do when you review all the evidence and there's no predetermined bias, people come to the same conclusion. So I don't think there's a lot of controversy among nutritional researchers and scientists as to what the foundational and overwhelming amount of evidence points to. So I don't think it should be um there's much controversy here, you know, um and the second thing um uh um I'm thinking that the the other concept that's important is that and that's that's very common to be talked about is like these oils like olive oil are good for you and, you know, canola oil. The difference between olive oil and canola oil and grape seed oil, things like that. Oils and then salt's another controversy. And I'm an and you may know or may not know I'm an ad - because most of our population is overweight and and body's fat is unquestionably uh uh um affects longevity, health, cancer, and heart disease risk. In other words, almost our entire population has too much body fat and eats too many calories. And we have these parameters of aging and longevity, predictors of aging. The nutrient density and the phytochemicals and antioxidants in the cells, which then enable detoxification mechanisms and DNA repair. Body fat percent is probably, you know, critical here and you can't even get a good nutrient density in cells until your body fat percent's low, and there's no such thing as a healthy overweight person. Being overweight causes insulin resistance, it's pro-inflammatory, it raises estrogen, and that causes breast and prostate cancer. So, having a a male with a body fat above 15% and a female with a body fat above 25% is unhealthy in proportion to that body

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is unhealthy in proportion to that body fat creeping up more and more in proportion that will will shorten their life accordingly. And this myth that we're trying to speed up our metabolic rate so we can eat more food and not get fat is also a myth. We're really trying to slow down our metabolic rate so we can eat less food and not get too thin. The less you eat, the longer you live without you know, you don't be anorexic, but we want to have good muscle mass with aging. But we certainly don't want to eat as much food as we possibly can. We want to get our nutrient needs met without overeating and without producing excess body fat. I think So, what I'm saying here is that the when you eat enough when you eat your nuts and seeds versus oils and animal fats, those fats are absorbed into the bloodstream very very slowly over a 3 to 4-hour period. So, you're getting a very small like pinic load, how much fat goes in the bloodstream. When you have oil, even olive oil or canola oil or coconut oil or or animal fats like butter or something, those fats into the bloodstream with a high amount of fat at one time. That's the called the lipemic load, like the glycemic load is how much sugar rises in the blood. When you have apple juice or you know, cold fruit loops or even white bread, white bread has the same glycemic load as sugar does. White bread is a sugar equivalent, right? Croissants, bagels, pizza, that's candy, that's cake, that's So, when you cuz they cuz so much sugar rushes into the blood. The when you add up the glycemic load, the sugar in the blood at one time, and the lipemic load, the fat in the blood at one time. That impairs endothelial function. It leads to insulin resistance. But it affects the brain. It affects the opiate centers in the brain. And the And people get habituated and addicted to the high caloric load. And now they're not satisfied unless they constantly overeat food. And they're overeating foods that are dangerous, that are highly glycemic, and highly lipemic. So, I'm saying that the studies that give us the best

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the studies that give us the best information are substitutional studies. Sure, olive oil is better than butter, but that doesn't prove olive oil might have been healthier features than certain other fats. But that doesn't prove it's better when you compare it to people eating walnuts or almonds or something. Especially when people are overweight because take cuz we have, you know, we know that when people cut back on any type of oil and eat more nuts and seeds instead, the lower lipemic load and the higher sterols and stanols and lignans in the nuts and seeds have been an official effect to make a person more satisfied with fewer calories. And And also has beneficial effects on heart disease and strokes and cancer. By the way, there's nothing more corroborated among the medical studies showing that the inclusion of nuts and seeds in the diet leads to approximately a 40% reduction in cardiovascular death in the highest quintile of consumption. So, for what I'm saying is that studies There's 100, 000 people studied for 20 years on this study. Here's another study with 200, 000 people studied for 25 years. And then we compare all the studies and I published a journal on article on that using 50 references, 50 studies showing the addition of nuts and seeds almost any type of diet led to longer lifespan, reduced all-cause mortality. And when people either reduced animal fats or oils and got most of the fat from nuts and seeds, you saw a tremendous flipping in in cardiovascular and cancer deaths. What I'm saying here is an average of about 40%. Most of the studies show 38% to 39% but about 40% reduction in cardiovascular death and about a 30% reduction in all-cause mortality. That mean it includes cancer deaths. Looking at the the first quintile of consumption which consumes less than half an ounce a day to the highest fifth quintile of consumption which is more than an ounce and a usually more than an ounce and a half a day of nuts and seeds. So that's just what I'm a total myth that people think like oils are good and my oils may be okay for people trying to gain weight but we have when we have an overweight population when you flood the body with the light with a light glycemic load you impair you can't

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light glycemic load you impair you can't remove fat from your cells and expect to lose weight while you're pouring oil if or high fat in the bloodstream it's simultaneously. You know what I mean? But um that's just one myth. You know uh the other myth is and because you know Americans um and most European most people around the world and they think they get most of their fats from animal fats and refined processed oils which is a processed food. What grows on and most my nutritarians which is people eating my my word that I coined a nutritarian diet was mostly natural foods. Obviously we get most of our fats from nuts and seeds and avocado. So that's a different aspect. Absolutely. So first of all I think you mentioned at least 10 bits in the last 5 minutes that from an audience perspective were eye-opening. Um first of all there is no such thing as being healthy and overweight and by overweight 15% and 25% body fat for male and female I think that's it's a target muscle achievable figure for us to understand. Cuz there's a lot of people out there who are probably 20 22% body fat go to the gym a lot and their inclination is hey let me increase my metabolic rate by working out more so I can burn more but they're actually in a state where they're not healthy enough to have you know the metabolism to be in a place and what they should be doing is lowering the caloric intake. Is that the takeaway for the audience? Absolutely. I mean, everybody has to learn what's their most favorite caloric window for their body. And a lot of people who get into over-exercising, they wind up having to over-exercise so they can eat more food, and eating more food is going to age them faster. We don't want to speed up our metabolic rate. We want to slow down our metabolic rate so we age slower your metabolic rate is So, then I'll I'll explain Let me explain this for one for like 2 or 3 minutes, okay? Here I am right now. And let's just say um to um we'll just round out the numbers. If I'm 150 lb, right? That means my basal

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150 lb, right? That means my basal metabolic rate is about 1, 500 calories a day. Now, could be a little off. Let's just say that's 1, 500 calories 150 lb. Now, forget exercise for a minute. Just assume I'm just moderate exercise and that's the number. So, what if I eat 1, 700 calories a day? I'm 200 calories over my basal metabolic rate. I'm not exercising those 200 calories off. Now, every pound of fat is 3, 500 calories, right? So, there's 350 days in a year, approximately. So, that means if I was 200 calories over, after a year, I would have gained 20 lb. But, I don't gain 20 lb. I only gain 10 lb from the two extra calories because what the body after the year cuz what the body does is it it resists weight gain. And it resists weight gain by speeding up the metabolic rate to burn the extra calories you don't need. And that means you raised your thyroid function, you raised your respiratory quotient calories burned through breathing, and you raised your body temperature to burn more calories. So, when people are overweight, they're not just overshooting their calories by a little bit. They're overshooting their calories by a huge amount. And then their metabolic rate, running at a faster rate, is going to age you faster. You making a pact with the devil. If you If I If that 1, 500 calories was my basal metabolic needs, and I exercised 100 to 200 calories a day, and I still consumed only 1, 500 calories. So, I was really under shooting my caloric necess - my caloric needs. So, I was going to lose weight. So, if I under shot by 100 calories, this means I would my basal metabolic rate was 1, 500 with moderate ex - moderate activity, but I exercised enough so I was 100 calories short. What my body will do now, it'll know that my body has a low body fat already. And because the exercise I'm doing is giving signals to my musculoskeletal frame that I'm utilizing it, so I need those muscles. So, my body will resist losing weight. So, it'll slow its metabolic rate down to not to cause muscle loss. So, I'll start to get colder and my thyroid will run slower and I'll have a

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thyroid will run slower and I'll have a lower respiratory quotient. And those are the factors that will lead to slowing of the aging process. It's so we're really trying to under shoot our caloric needs by a little bit. That's the art to maintain muscle mass and size without losing weight as we get older but with as least amount of calories as possible, not the most amount possible. So, I'm trying you know, so and we find when we eat very healthily, we're not going to require as many calories at any anyway. So, I'm making so I'm making that point. Yeah, like we have to so people have to as a there's the scientist artist of their own body. They have to figure out for themselves what's the caloric load that makes them achieve their most favorite weight. You know, you may need you know, LeBron James may need 4, 000 calories. You know, this little old lady, you know, who hardly you know, at five she may only need 1, 100 calories. You know, I don't have a caloric load that all people should eat. But but it should be but each person has to be that scientist. They can't just eat any amount of calories. They got to eat They have to eat the right food and they got to eat the right amount of calories. Before we get to the right food real quick, a question on what you said. So, we understand you can't out-train a diet. So, we understand that. But, our understanding is that I can increase the basal metabolic rate by having a larger muscle mass. So, is there a world where I take 12 weeks where I increase my caloric intake, I build a bigger muscle mass, have a higher BMR, and that will allow me to be in a deficiency at a higher set point of calories? So, and then I get the benefits of longevity, but at the same time I can also eat more food and carry more muscle with me, which some people are probably considering aesthetically more pleasing for themselves. So, is there a world where is it like, "Hey, if you want to live longer, eat in a caloric deficit by 100 calories, just work out just enough so you don't have, you know, muscle loss." Or, can I implement muscle building for 12 weeks at a time, once every 6 months or 12 months, to still have the

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or 12 months, to still have the aesthetically pleasing, you know, look that I'm most of them most of us are looking for? Probably not. I don't think that's really there's there's no data that that's would be helpful. And the remember it's your um in the bodybuilding and, you know, training community, they're pushing for excess muscle mass, which isn't associated with longer life. It's body fat percentage that has the closest association with longer lifespan. You could be healthy with lower degrees of muscle mass. And And then if you have lower degrees of muscle mass, you're not required all that food to maintain it. You know, so we know in we know the shortest lifespan of any profession North America in in the NASH study was the linebackers on football teams. You know, the guys that weigh 250 to 300 lb. And they've added what they have to eat to get that big. And maybe took steroids, I don't even know, but what they have to do is So, so I'm saying the the largeness is not a criteria for long longevity. Leanness is. Leanness and and So, the longest lived So, the the people who ran up and down, you know, the the quarterbacks didn't have a lower lifespan. It was just the linebackers, by the way. I mean, in order to you know, the receivers and tight ends, the people running up and down the fields. But, basically, if we look at sports figures in their lifespan, you know, longest lifespan are in like tennis players and skiers and, you know, soccer players, people who are fit and lean and are and keep themselves in good condition. It's not size that makes for longer lifespan, you know. Um so, you can actually probably get by with less calories if you're a little smaller and you won't maintain all that you won't have all that needless mass, you know. But, so what does this mean? I'm not saying the muscle mass is so dangerous, but it's the amount of food you have to eat and maybe even the amount of animal protein you have to eat to get that big. Like me, I'm not very big. I'm I'm I but I've always weighed um

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I've always weighed um you know, I've been a professional athlete um and very fit. And even now in my 70s, I can ski moguls skiing, you know, I'd pick moguls all day long. I'm play a hard tennis match, you know, for 2 hours straight running back and forth, you know, with I think almost as much speed as I did when I was younger. Um but the point I'm making right now is that um we don't see the um exercise capacity drop off, but um but it but the but as much as I've been in the gym lifting weights, pumping iron and, you know, I had to lift my sister up with one hand and and I'm not going to get that huge because my diet is somewhat limiting my size with my growth. You know, I'm not eating the foods that allow I'm not, you know, I'm probably not eating enough animal protein to maximize growth. I'm maximizing strength in my size in my 70s. I can do a lot of chains and pull-ups and push-ups and I can I'm very fit, but I I but I'm not going to be able to I frankly, I can't bench as much as I used to bench in the gym when I was you know, 20 years ago, but I still can bench pretty good amounts of weight in my 70s. But I'm not going to be really super large. So, I think my diet limits my growth. I you know, I could probably get to be 165, 175 lbs if I ate a lot of meat, but I think my diet being so plant straw heavy probably keeps my growth close to 150 lbs. But I think that that's more lifespan promoting to be a little leaner and and strong for your body size and not to produce um not to try to max out your muscle mass. I think one of the things that people may struggle with is because they've been told to be fit to be active to go to the gym, building more muscle or at least some muscle is going to help with uh longevity and strengthening your bones and everything else. Sometimes and I've noticed this a couple of times, if you go to the gym, you do a workout, naturally after that workout, you tend

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naturally after that workout, you tend to be more hungry or at least I tend to be more hungry. So, I would eat generally until I'm satisfied. And I have always had since I was a kid a pretty big appetite. Like I just love to eat food. So, and a couple of questions. First of all, is there a sweet spot to how much muscle mass you have? Like as a sort of a percentage which is kind of the ideal amount or is it not Is it impossible to tell? Is it just as you said before down to leanness? It's It's a very difficult question. I don't think there's enough data. I don't have an answer for that question, but the But I think like just like with marathon running or being a triathlete, at some point of exercise, you're going to over push the body's limits for optimal health. Running and excellent fitness is good. Lifting weights and getting big muscles is good. But at some point, the overdoing it is not going to be favorable. The gains you're going I'm going to go into a negative. because like when you're a triathlete, you know, doing Ironmans, the amount of exercise you're doing and the amount of calories you're consuming to do that much activity is probably too much exercise, putting too much stress on the body, and then too much food you need to eat to get that much activity. And the same thing when you get to a certain degree of muscle mass, the amount of food you have to consume to get that large is probably detrimental. So, you're going to see a a diminishing return of muscle gain. So, being as big as you possibly can is not the goal. So, but I don't know specifically at what point it's hard to know what point it turns to be excessive. That's a little bit, you know, a gray area. You know what I mean? When does it become excessive? But we I think we can use our common sense to get an idea when it's excessive, you know. Um what if you're the type of person that goes to the gym and you don't eat a crazy amount, you probably eat between 2, 500 and 3, 000 calories. You probably lift weights four five times per week. But naturally you're you're just very lean. You you tend to kind of if you

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lean. You you tend to kind of if you just you do that amount of training, you're doing your steps and everything and you're eating around that calorie range, but you're hovering around 10 11% body fat. Does that pose a risk if you are holding onto a lot of muscle, but at the same time you have the leanness? Like does it kind of cancel it out? Then it would go down to an That's would be healthy if the diet that got you there was good. That would be Yeah, that would that sounds pretty healthy. If you can keep your body fat in the 10 or 11% range, that's great. And you know, my body fat most of my life was always around 10 or 11% too. Now that I'm older, in my 70s, I'm running around 12 and 1 / 2%, 12 something like 11. 5, 12. 5%, something like that, a little higher, you know, in my 70s. But the um But yeah, I think that sounds good as long as you were able to consume you know, because here's what I'm saying. I'm saying that we have this unique opportunity in human history to not to have heart attacks or strokes and not to get cancer. I'm making a radical claim here. This is really radical. I'm saying that we could wipe out like 95% of cancers. I'm saying we could wipe out like 98% of heart disease and strokes. I'm saying we have enough knowledge where we can push the envelope of human longevity and people could live to be 100 in excellent health. And we're doing that with the high consumption of green vegetables and the other G-bombs that have the anti-cancer effects. So, the G-bombs stand for obviously greens and then bombs: beans, onions, mushrooms, berries, and seeds like flax seeds, chia seeds, hemp seeds, sesame seeds. hemp um sesame seeds, flax seeds, and chia seeds have lignans that have been shown to have powerful effects at preventing prostate and breast cancer. They turn into enterolignans in the gut. Or we're we're talking here about a a dose-dependent relationship between green vegetable consumption and longevity in many large-scale studies

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longevity in many large-scale studies that followed people for decades. That there's more green vegetables people eat, the longer they live. It's one of the biggest predictors of longevity is how much greens they eat. Beans are also a predictor of longevity, too. I'm saying if you could if you got that way by consuming enough of these this healthy portfolio of foods with anti-cancer effects then great. But if you needed to eat like mostly meat and eggs to get that big without having consuming enough of these anti-cancer substances, then you're going to be in trouble. You know, so it's I think the bodybuilding community focuses too much on size and not enough about micronutrient diversity and fiber diversity as a predictor of longer lifespan. So, even you know, I could give you like, you know, show one study after another and this is what um this is what the most largest studies of the recent years have shown that when people make some modification to their diet to get more plant protein. And by the way, there's five plant foods there. Let's just list the five of them are. There's fruits, there's vegetables, there's beans, there's nuts and seeds in one group and then there's um intact whole grains like amaranth and teff and, you know, oat steel cut of things like that. Okay. The ones that are highest in protein are green vegetables, nuts and seeds and beans. Those The fruit's not Fruit has protein but not very much. If you combine greens, nuts and seeds and beans, then you're getting them in in your diet. And I like to have beans and nuts and greens with lunch and dinner. And us we get about forgetting animal product. Just going on the plant protein itself, we're getting about 25 g for 500 calories. So, 2, 000 calorie diet will give you about 100 g of protein, of plant protein. So, what the studies show, when I'm saying the um you know, there's so many studies

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um you know, there's so many studies show this when there's when a person is eating more plant protein and their plant protein animal protein ratio goes down, that's the a tremendous predictor of longevity compared to when the animal protein plant protein intake goes up. So, we're saying here a tremendous predictor of longevity is trying to incorporate these plant protein foods. It's not because they are high in protein, it's because they they contain these accessory phytochemicals and fibers which change the nature of the gut lining and they also the immune function, the cell function and the immune surveillance against cancer and the ability to suppress abnormal genes and the ability of the immune system to recognize abnormal cells and to prevent cancer cell replication. So, we did the whole So, I'm trying to use the science to show people that you don't have to wait till you get cancer, prostate cancer, breast cancer, that with the right dietary portfolio, we can protect yourself against cancer. So, I can pick, you know, throw a dart at any of those foods, like mushrooms, and say, "Okay, let's look at the studies on mushrooms." You know, women who have 10 g of mushrooms a day in the you know, in the most in this large-scale study showed they reduced their risk of developing breast cancer by 64%. But, if they had mushrooms and green tea, the risk of breast cancer down by 89%. 89% reduction of cancer just from the regular consumption of mushrooms and green tea. There are certain phytochemicals in foods that are very protective against because they have they're anti-angiogenic. They don't let a tumor cell grow in a blood supply, and they're anti-replicative by the aryl hydrocarbon receptors in the AhR pathway. They don't allow cells to replicate, particularly when you're So, we can So, in other words, there's overlapping mechanism between, let's say, the lignans in flaxseeds, which are anti-estrogenic and anti-angiogenic, and the effect of mushrooms and the effect of green cruciferous vegetables, they layer on different protective mechanisms. So, I was mentioning

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mechanisms. So, I was mentioning mushrooms, and here's the um You know, we're talking about some different studies on mushrooms, and you know, there's there's a tremendous synergy. So, in any case, then you go on to onions and garlic. You know, sprinkling garlic powder on your food, eating raw onion on your salad. You know, there's Here's one study that was 2019 that people who used garlic and onions more than once a day had a 67% lower risk of breast cancer compared to those who never eat onions and garlic. Or beans, you know, here's the you know, look at beans. Here's the Nigerian breast cancer Cancer study showing I'm talking specifically about breast cancer that speak a lot to breast cancer groups. 45% reduction breast cancer risk among women who had the highest bean intake which was more than oh God, which was more than one portion a week was associated with 45% reduction breast cancer. I don't want one I want one portion a day. I want people to at least half a cup to a cup of beans a day. The Nurses Health Study showed twice a week showed 25% reduction of cancer. But the Shanghai Breast Cancer Study basically the studies on breast cancer parallel prostate cancer because of the same endocrine factors leading to both higher risk of both cancers. So what we're saying here body fat drives estrogen and and these foods have anti-estrogen these foods like green vegetables and onions and mushrooms and garlic have anti-estrogenic effects and anti-replicative effects. And that even you know, herbs and teas have extra breast cancer preventive effects because of the same like green tea and turmeric and and onion garlic powder have these things have anti-cancer effects. So we're trying to use food as medicine and modern nutritional science in a way that we're having we give more credence to studies that are repeated by other researchers looking at the same

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by other researchers looking at the same questions and finding the same results. That's called the collaborative amount of collaboration between one study and another whereas one study is not going to show that much. We need to have a preponderance of evidence from multiple studies and luckily today we do have you know, hundreds probably a hundred studies on every question we're looking at. You know, do flaxseeds extend lifespan? Okay, let's look at the hundred studies on that. Do eating sunflower seeds make you live longer? Let's look at a hundred studies on sunflower seeds. You know, and we can see where the overwhelming preponderance of evidence what What it show? When you talk about the evidence um some of the statements that you made in the past with health is driven by micronutrients, not macronutrients. And when you say about the G-BOMBS, so from an audience perspective, the nutritarian diet, the approach, is that the G-BOMBS? Is it more how that would it look like? Cuz you mentioned right now that you have for lunch and for dinner you have you will try to have legumes and at that on the daily basis. Can you for a takeaway is like how would an ideal day look like for somebody 200 lbs, active, 40 years old male, um on the diet nutritarian diet that you recommend based on the evidence that you've seen? Right. And so the nutritarian diet being a health nut, right? On the diet. And I say you're a nutritarian when you're eating such a healthy diet and you're at your ideal weight. Or you're a nutritarian when you're eating an idealized diet including all those foods to all the we're talking about and you're losing weight at least by a kilogram a week. If you're overweight and you're not losing weight by a kilogram a week at a minimum, then you're not on the program. Because then you're still overeating. So it's combining eating healthy foods with not overeating. So you're coordinating your body fat and your body size into that in into that formula for long for good health. You know, it's not a person eating healthy foods and just you have gorging out on two on more foods and you know, so yeah, so the nutritarian diet jump in real quick cuz you said 1 kg a

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jump in real quick cuz you said 1 kg a week. Anything that you'll see online, everybody says if any diet you causes to lose your more weight than half a kilogram a week, it's too radical. And here you are saying a kilogram a week without even asking first how heavy the person was. I'm just saying that's from I'm I'm very happy you said that statement cuz when I go on a diet, I want to get the maximum results as quick as possible and I'm not shooting for a half a kilo a week. I'm going for the kilogram plus, right? So it's very Right. So that I've had a health retreat for the last 7 years which has just shut down where I had thousands of people come in and stay for 2 to 3 months and the women average about 15 lb of weight loss at the first month and men average about 20 lb of weight loss the first month. That's 5 lb a week the first month. Sure, it slows down after that, but we're talking about people who are significantly overweight. People within 20 lb that are I'm not saying lose a kilogram a week if you are within 10 or 20 lb of your ideal weight, then it's okay to lose you know half a kilo What you're saying is right, half a kilo a week. But what when I'm putting people I see in my medical practice who come in to me from men to stay with me and to try to lose weight and come to the practice, they're usually more than 15 lb overweight, they're 30 lb overweight, 50 lb overweight, we and we do body fat analysis. People have 100 lb will have they'll have 50 to 100 lb of body fat on their body that they carry around every day. 50 to 100 lb of body fat. Their body fats will be 30%, 40%, 50%, body fat. They'll come in with, you know? So So that's what you know, but in any case, so kind of you're right in both cases. But when you want people lose weight faster than that and then you and you get it to a safer level so they're not going to have a heart attack while they're in the, you know? But eventually it's not going to stay at that rate of weight loss. They're not going to as they get close to their ideal weight, it's going to slow down a little bit. So if you're on a diet approach, if you can share a little bit, what is interesting your diet? How would it look like? How would I implement it in my everyday life? Yeah, so the most important the most the biggest change people make is usually lunch because lunch we want people to eat a large salad because I'm saying this that more than 300 studies show a

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more than 300 studies show a dose-dependent relationship. The most powerful and consistent association with the reduction of cancers is the consumption of raw vegetables. Because in lettuces and raw kale and arugula and bok choy and cabbage, there's they're rich in these isothiocyanates we call ITC's that are critical to the body's ability to fight cancer. That's why we're talking about the dramatic effect of, you know, 60% reduction of prostate cancer or prostate cancer death in men with a high green vegetable consumption. So we have it and and the the enzyme that makes the ITC's in the mouth as you chew the vegetable, because the glucosinolate is the precursor. The myrosinase is the enzyme. It catalyzes the reaction to make the ITC's in the mouth when you're chewing it. As you break open the cells, and the better you chew, the more ITC's are formed. So, you want to have a salad. So, making a salad with onion, because the enzyme in the onion is called alliinase. You know how when you cut an onion your eyes could tear? You're forming organic sets sulfinic acid, you're forming other organosulfur compounds that have anti-cancer effects. So, making a salad with a big salad with onions and arugula and lettuce and, you know, and and maybe tomatoes and maybe some beans in the salad's recipe thing I put on that has nuts and seeds in it. Maybe hemp seeds and cashews, maybe oranges and toasted sesame seeds, maybe tomatoes and dried tomatoes and and blood orange and and balsamic vinegar or, you know, or So, I'm making some dressing that has nuts and seeds, because when you have the fat from nuts and seeds with the green vegetables that you're chewing in the salad, you get about a 20-time increased absorption of the phytochemicals into your bloodstream compared to having a salad with just vinegar with no fat, let's say. So, the fat does play a role in absorbing protective anti-cancer phytochemicals. So, you have a big salad with a nut seed-based dressing, and then maybe a bowl of vegetable bean soup with lentils and adzuki beans or red kidney

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lentils and adzuki beans or red kidney beans, and maybe some fruit for dessert. So, it's having that instead of going out in the world and having fast food or restaurant food or salted food or greasy food or oily food, they're having a big salad and a bowl of vegetable bean soup. They're traveling with them with that with them, too, and their own salad dressing, and we're eating a big serving of that for lunch. For most people, breakfast is is um is not that difficult because we're having usually wild blueberries and blackberries. We're having seeds. I'm having wheat germ protein with the with a tablespoon of flax seeds and chia seeds, and maybe some um you know, may maybe in some grain like oats or amaranth or something, and and maybe unsweetened soy milk or almond milk in that. So, usually lunch is not and the breakfast is not that crazy, but you know, and then if people want to have an animal product or have some small serving of animal product, they can have limited amounts with their dinner, but they basically cut out um 2 / 3 of the the average American. I don't know what they do where you guys live, but the average American eats about 35% of their diet from animal products, right? And we're trying to cut that down to below 10%. So, reduce their animal product intake by at least a third, at least two by 2 / 3, eating at least only eating a small amount of animal products if they choose to do that. So, if if I'm somebody who's looking to improve my diet and maybe give this a try, you know, is it a case of going down go to a supermarket, ideally some sort of grocery store that sells you know, good quality produce, maybe a farmer's market, whatever it might be. Do I just randomly select fruits and vegetables and seeds and nuts and mushrooms and everything like that and kind of just hope for the best and put it all together and eat it, or is there a strategy behind buying specific foods? Because there's there's that which may be an issue people who are a little bit unsure of what it is that they should buy cuz they're just overwhelmed with the sheer

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they're just overwhelmed with the sheer amount of selection available. And then on top of that, how do they know that their body is going to agree with certain uh fruits and vegetables cuz not everybody can tolerate food the same way, and sometimes you have to kind of from what I've experienced myself and speaking to other people, it tends to be a game of trial and error trying to figure out, "Okay, well, when I eat this, I feel good. When I eat this, I don't feel as good." So, is it a Could the case of going to the shop, trying different things, trying different meals and combinations, and then sticking with the combinations that work best for you, or is there a little bit more to it than that? No, because people feel good with what they used to eating. When they introduce new foods they never digest before, they may have trouble with it. People The major thing people have problem with is beans. Beans and onions, let's say, and garlic. That's That's traditionally going to give them problems. So, um So, let's say you have a person, you tell them you want to get more beans in their diet, more bean protein, more bean fiber. Beans are linked to longer life in all the blue zones, and you're not eating enough beans, and beans in the Beans account for the Hispanic effect, which means why in food desert areas, mostly inhabited inhabited by black Americans who have such high rates of cancer and premature death, why do Hispanics living in those areas don't have as many um don't have as many bad health outcomes. It's It's the Hispanic It's all due to the amount of beans eaten. That when they put beans in the diet, they do better outcomes. But so, but in any case, the answer your question is that when the person is getting too much gas or bloating from eating beans or lentils, we might only start with a teaspoon of lentils in their diet. But But we give it to them with every meal. So, we we titrate down to the level of that intake that's tolerable, but not without any gas, and then over period of time, the digestive tract can build back the bacteria and its capacity to handle the food they're not used to digesting. Because your microbiome in your digestive tract is built on the foods you generally eat

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built on the foods you generally eat regularly. So, you're not going to digest all the fiber and all the beans as well as I can digest them, cuz I've been eating these foods regularly for decades, you know? We've got to build We've got to change your microbiome. And the change of microbiome that occurs is producing a microbiome that's built on fiber diversity that it that is linked to longer lifespan and produces less TMAO, trimethylamine oxide, which which promotes cardiovascular disease and cancer. It's a pro-inflammatory substance. It's the type of bacteria that that is built up in the gut from eating too much animal products. When you eat too much red meat, for example, you're going to build up more TMAO. It's not just the cholesterol in red meat. It's it's the protein and the type of protein there that builds that feeds the growth of certain bacteria. And with other type of animal other type of food, you build different bacteria. The bacteria that grow in your gut are based in what you eat. And I'm suggesting right now that mushrooms and onions and green vegetables and beans, and maybe even berries, are too important to leave out of your diet. Too important not to include in your diet on a regular basis. And if you don't digest them well, unless you're like severely allergic to something, that was a bit There's always exceptions to every rule, right? It's not across the board 100%, but unless there's some really strong reason, you should be eating these things in small amounts, even if you're not digesting them well. See if you can learn to digest them. I'll give you an example. In the study on breast cancer survival with women who have breast cancer, even a third of a milligram of lignin a day reduced recurrence of breast cancer by 71%. Now, 1 tsp of ground flax seeds has 7 mg of lignin. And this study, which followed people for 10 years, showed a third of 1 mg lowered risk of can - lowered risk of cancer recurrence by 71%. S - showing that even a little pinch of flax seeds in your diet, even a tenth of

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flax seeds in your diet, even a tenth of a teaspoon has beneficial effects. Even a little bit of garlic sprinkled on your food has beneficial longevity effects. Even a little bit of onion, even if you don't like People say, "I don't like onion." I said, "Just use a I don't like mushrooms." All right, just use a little bit of mushroom that you just blend it into your soup. You don't even know it's there. You know, it's not even And when you test people that think they have these digestive disturbances, most of the time they it's it's mental because if they don't know they're eating it, they don't have the disturbance. You can make it a placebo effect. When you give it to them, they don't know they're eating it, they did fine with it. If they know they're eating it, "Oh, I didn't feel that great with it." And so, what we do is we give small amounts, we hide it in the food, and then over time we did they can try to increase it slowly. Um So, yeah, unless there's some strong effects, but mostly people like what they get used to eating. So, not liking mushrooms or onions is not the answer. It's not the excuse either because if you eat it long enough, you start to like it better. You didn't learn the right recipes to make it taste good, either. And you're not digesting it well? chew it better. You should be chewing food to a liquid and consume less of it then because even a small amount gives you a benefit, you know? So most people the majority of people aren't going to have those problems. So, based on what you said there, I would imagine that you generally don't agree with the whole procedure of doing a food intolerance test or an allergy test. That's correct. Yeah. But the person's allergies you can get an IGE RAST test. Some people may get a throat Their throat could get raw, they get skin rashes, they get Some people really have true allergies and those we certainly want to identify and avoid their allergic triggers. But um don't forget I've been doing this for so many decades that I have a lot of people who had those type of severe allergies and we improve their allergies with oral tolerance therapy. First, we got their immune system strong by building up their nutrient density in their tissues. They weren't as allergy prone. And then we took like one sunflower seed and blended it in a whole court in a

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and blended it in a whole court in a Vitamix. And then we use like one drop of that water as an oral tolerance, you know, with doctor people go to um allergy doctors for allergy shots. They use very minute amounts to skip into the bloodstream. They have a little so you get the body to be tolerant to it over many months with even very tiny amounts. So, we do the same thing to help people with those type of allergies. But, I'm not saying that you don't that people have severe allergies, they have to avoid those things. It's very important for people to with celiac disease or you know, wheat allergies or gluten allergies to to avoid those things and to you know, because those are severe allergic reactions. They're not just little food intolerances or digestive, you know, idiosyncrasies, right? So, the interesting thing that you mentioned um from the blue zone perspective. Again, we had several different guests on, but to your point, majority of the guests that we have on um are going well closer to your perspective in terms of reduction of animal uh based protein towards more vegetables. Um adding fiber to it. But, then there's from blue zone perspective, there's the Mediterranean diet. Uh one of the guests we had on, Ryan Smith from a data perspective of longevity showed that Mediterranean diet where the protein comes mostly from fish is considered one of the best longevity diets based on data sets that he had. My question to you is Mediterranean diet per se it might not be perfect, but is it something you would recommend for people to look into? And then how big of a difference is fish based protein or you know, seafood based protein compared to red meat or poultry? Right. Those are excellent questions, but you know it's what is your image of the Mediterranean diet? Like like we can call because in other words, what I'm saying right now is there are certain features of the Mediterranean diet that prolong lifespan. Absolutely. But, also there's a situation there's fact there's also the point of olive oil where we discussed prior where maybe not. There's animal sources too. study,

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study, in the PREDIMED study they compared olive oil to other sources of fat and they found compared to butter or other oils, olive oil was beneficial. But compared to nuts and seeds, the longest lifespan in the Mediterranean studies on the the PREDIMED which is the most famous study. So the longest lifespan was in the groups that were eating nuts and seeds at baseline and were then randomized to the groups that were told to continue to eat nuts and seeds, not the olive oil group. So even though olive oil is better than the other sources of fat, it wasn't as good as people eating almonds and walnuts as a source of fat. Those had the best lifespan. It's all about what you're comparing it to. You know, eggs don't look that bad when you compare it to processed carbs like donuts and pie peas. Basically, if you compare an egg to a bean, then the bean then you get much better outcome. I know it's what you what the Absolutely. I understand your your point. Compared to So let's look at the Mediterranean diet with a little more scrutiny and say there's a lot of good things there, but you can't argue that eating white bread and pizza and white and and white flour made pasta, those processed starches are healthy foods. Why can't we improve the Mediterranean diet to make get rid of the the stuff that's not good for you when there? And then that's what a nutritarian diet is. It's the stuff that we took out that wasn't good for them. They shouldn't be eating them. So the Mediterranean diet is a step in the right direction, but it's not anywhere near as lifespan promoting as a nutritarian diet cuz remember, I'm making these radical claims. I'm saying let's totally wipe out cancer like by 90% reduce it. Let's extend lifespan by 20 years. Let's have almost everybody averaging their lifespan to 100. Let's pushing past the blue zones. The blue zones are a step in the right direction, but they're not the ideal diet. They're just cult - culturally and socially are eating foods that are healthier than the average Western diet, but they're not the most scientifically designed to be the perfect diet. I'm trying to use science, epidemiology, and his history to come up with a an ideal diet that gets much better outcomes than a typical Mediterranean diet would, although the Mediterranean's a great step in the right direction cuz you're eating more vegetables, tomato sauce, beans, and fish instead of red meat red

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beans, and fish instead of red meat. And let's go into the fish thing if you want now at this point. And yeah, I mean, you know, if I'm visiting French Polynesia and go on Bora Bora in those huts and I'm taking fish that are caught in the clean waters, that's great. But off the United States coast, we're dumping 2, 000 tons of garbage in the ocean every hour. You have a lot of plastic and and BMAA, you know, in the especially in bivalves and what's it called? Shellfish. Lobster, crab, and clams, oysters, mussels, and scallops are bottom feeders, and the garbage and the algae overgrowth filter down to the bottom, and people who eat more of these bivalves and shellfish have higher rates of ALS and Parkinson's disease and dementia, PDS, because they're getting so much toxins from from fish that is contaminated. A lot of the predatory fish are contaminated, and I used to think sardines were such a good food, but now with so much plastic particles and microplastics around the continental shelf over the coast of Europe, Sweden, Japan Japan, China, and the United States, when you eat a sardine, you're eating the whole digestive tract that has my a lot of microplastic in there, you know? Um so when you're So you do have um you know, some benefits benefits from eating fish over other sources of seafood over other sources of um protein for various reasons, but with bacteria and saturated fat and um and and omega-3 fatty acids, right? If you don't eat enough seafood, then you you don't you know, we're talking the parameters of aging. Not to change the subject, Max, but we talked about nutrients in the tissues, body fat percent, toxicity in the tissues, and the omega-3 index. The omega-3 index is how is whether you're consuming sufficient amount of long-chain omega-3 fats, particularly from seaweed I mean from algae or seafood, right? And so without seafood in your diet, the omega a low omega-3 index can cause

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the omega a low omega-3 index can cause brain shrinkage with aging and increased risk of Parkinson's because you can't get rid of toxins unless your omega-3 index is favorable. I'm saying right now a favorable omega-3 index is above seven. You need it So yeah. So, if you're not consuming fish regularly, then you have to supplement with an a vegan algae-based long-chain omega-3 or a fish oil to make sure you're getting to your particular biological needs based on your genetics. Maybe you don't need that much. Maybe your omega-3 index is already high. But, a lot of people don't convert the ALA, the short-chain omega-3 from walnuts and flaxseeds and your green vegetables, they don't convert that into EPA and mostly not convert to DHA, which was really responsible for brain size with aging. And you can't just do it once you're demented. You can't wait till you're 80 years old and then start taking DHA. It's your exposure to DHA through the from the ages of 40 to 80 or that determine your brain size and risk of dementia with aging. So, fish becomes a very important part of the diet for mental health and long and longevity. Plus, low omega-3 index is linked to shorter lifespan, too. So, it's one of the parameters of aging. So, fish becomes an important parameter of aging if you could have gotten clean fish, but if you're not using fish because most of the seafood is contaminated or you have a you know, we're trying to avoid that, then we supplement accordingly to make sure we're getting those things in our diet that fish would give us, like the extra zinc, the extra DHA, and the extra iodine. We have to then supplement that to try to get into our diet those benefits from the fish that we're not getting when we're eating mostly plant-based, let's say. You know what I mean? Speaking of supplementation, I think this is an important part. I mean, there's probably there's some people, hopefully, that after this podcast will completely switch over and, you know, go make G-bombs the foundation of their diet. But most people will probably take some parts out and start like me personally By the way, I'm not saying G-bombs is everything you eat. I'm just I want them

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everything you eat. I'm just I want them included in the diet of what, you know, and you can eat other things, too. I'm not eating just vegetarian diet approach. It speaks to me. I'm sitting here and I'm thinking because I have a very strict routine, like every my weekday is the same every every day for 5 days a week. So, for me it's very simple to add flax seeds or, you know, other or mushrooms or onions or garlic into my my meals. It's it's a simple step. But at the same time, I also know myself that speak I'm not going to go down to 10% of my protein being animal animal-based protein from currently being over 35%. I think it will be a reach. But talking about supplementation, so omega-3, the first one. Before we had the before the podcast went live, you said I can ask you any question. And one of the questions in this market right now is prebiotics and probiotics. With probiotics, the sentiment right now is it's a waste of money because it has to be completely unique to the person because of the gut uniqueness. Prebiotics, there's different opinions out there. Is the prebiotic something you would consider adding from a supplementation aspect if you are not on a perfect diet? If you cannot follow the diet that you recommend? And then also love to hear your opinion on probiotics. I don't know, you know, the answer that because because no matter what you're taking with a probiotic or pre, you're never going to replace the benefits of eating green vegetables and having a salad every day. So, with your diet, I'd say just can't you do a salad and and chew that stuff well and get that with someone where that's at. Cuz you're going to get much better effects and I'm also advocating people eat sprouts. Like have a sprouter and put some like, you know, mixed broccoli sprouts on the salad, too. You know, I'm a real nut on these health foods and these superfoods, you know, so I'm like pushing you and saying you're not going to get the benefits of a just a probiotic or a prebiotic is to really eat the salad because not just the bacteria, it's not just the fiber diversity that's going to fuel the bacteria. It's also all those chemicals that are going to have anti-cancer effects, too, you know. but you're saying if you don't eat the

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but you're saying if you don't eat the seafood on the fish omega-3 supplementation is a substitute, is it? so that's what I'm saying, you know, maybe you we do some supplements to make up for what you're not eating, but it's better to eat it's better to do the diet right than it would be to take the supplements, you know. So, what would be the supplements that you would say to consider based on on the practice? Something along omega-3, but something else? No, I'm definitely recommending people take the omega-3 they need to keep their omega-3 index stable. If they can't eat much fish if they if I'm not eating much fish, I'm eating more omega-3 from from a supplement, right? But I'm also saying that um one advantage of animal products over plant food is that the phytic acid in plant foods binds zinc. So, even though it contains zinc in beans and vegetables, you don't absorb as much zinc compared to eating animal products. So, as people move their diet more plant-based, they need to increase their zinc intake with a supplement to get the the same benefits to eating animal products or giving them the extra zinc, you know. The same thing that people are eating iodine and salt. I want people to cut their salt intake down real low. Well, then if they're going to cut their salt intake real low, they're not going to get the iodine from eating much seafood, then they got to supplement their diet with some extra iodine, too. So, the supplements are a should be based on what you if you're eating those things sufficiently and if you're not, then you got to supplement it, right? So, yeah, maybe um you might take a a prebiotic and a fiber diversity, you know, some kind of supplement that might be advantageous if you refuse to eat the salad and and the If you're not going to eat the salad and the vegetables every every day, but it's not going to be as good as having a salad and a vegetable. I don't know how much more, you know. And now that those are certainly a gray area and very hard to answer that question because it's kind of unknown. They don't have a lot of scientific studies on that, you know. We know that fiber diversity, which means that not just the amount of fiber you consume, but having different types of fiber in your diet is longevity favorable. So, I think that you could um I think you should be able to cut your animal products down a little bit and to

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animal products down a little bit and to include maybe you have to do some cutting to fit more of these foods in to get it all in without you know, without making you say I've no room in your stomach, you know. From what you've mentioned about the the foods which you would recommend consuming, would you say that I mean maybe you you know or you don't know, but would you say that Bryan Johnson is following something quite similar cuz I know he generally avoids animal foods. He's eating mostly vegetables, nuts, seeds, and he's consuming around 2, 000 calories a day, just under. It is what he's doing something similar to this. I would It seems like it is, but then on top of it he's having like 50 supplements on top of it. Right. I guess. I mean, I would say some of the supplements he's taking like the um NAD precursors, we don't have enough data to know those precursors may the precursors of NAD. Different when you take like NAD, you know, in a shot or something, but you know, some of those precursors in the amounts he's taking I think could have pro-carcinogenic effects. The science on that is not enough. There's not enough science to know it's safe. So, he's doing things in the gray area that we're not really sure are beneficial and could even be hurtful. We know, for example, that even taking vitamin E is not beneficial. when One of the worst things people do, which is a good opportunity to say this here, is they take folate and excuse me, they take folic acid. Folic acid um promotes cell replication to the degree that it can increase risk of prostate and breast cancer. So, we're saying um So, real food gives us folate, whereas supplement the cheap supplements give us folic acid, which is synthetic substance made in the lab, doesn't exist in nature. And taking a supplement with folic acid could be detrimental. What I mean mentioning that because beta carotene supplements are are hurtful, not helpful. Vitamin E, there's eight different vitamin E fragments. When you take just

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vitamin E fragments. When you take just one, it's not helpful. When you take just beta carotene, vitamin A is one of the most dangerous things to take because it it shows to weaken bones and increase risk of cancer. You know, so that Yeah, there's some supplemental ingredients we have to be careful with and probably out of the And and probably Bryan Johnson is taking too much stuff and too many things that could have potentially pro-oxidative effects. Let me give an example. Sulforaphane and indole-3 - carbinol are the isothiocyanates, the individual isothiocyanates found in cabbage and broccoli that have been linked to low rates of cancer. But when you take them in a supplement as opposed to eating them in broccoli or cabbage or eating them in sprouts, they can have pro-oxidation effects because they the rate the way they work is by irritating the cell so the cell builds up more resistance against damage from the mild amount of those substances. And when you overtake them, it does the opposite and starts to have a pro-oxidation effect. So, you want to take the amount that's present in food, but not take so much in a supplement where they treat by taking 10 or 20 times as much. So, I always look for the diet. Like when people are taking cryptoxanthin and zeaxanthins for their eyes, you know, those uh Well, they're only getting like, you know, let's say 10 mg where a healthy nutritarian diet gives 300 mg. You know, I'm taking in the amount of lignans I consume cuz I'm taking in a whole tablespoon of ground flax and all the other foods I'm eating and sesame seeds and things I'm eating. I'm taking in 300 times the lignans of the average person's consuming. So, they yeah, so you should take you to if you should um supplementing with a little is okay, but more is better there, but I guess what I'm saying here is that we have to be a little cautious with supplements and look at all the data on that to heavily study the data to make sure there's no negative effects of taking something but particularly too much of one thing. So, from a nutrition perspective, I think I can sense that you believe nutrition should come from food from whole foods and we understand that. From

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whole foods and we understand that. From implementation perspective, if we're starting off tomorrow, so just from from what I've heard today and I'm trying to summarize cuz I think make it applicable. One of the things I would say takeaways is what how does this part is going to change my life or life of the audience? So, integrating from a diet perspective, want to keep the metabolism actually lower because higher metabolisms actually bad for longevity. One of the things takeaways, one is from a caloric standpoint, being a little bit in caloric deficit is also better for longevity perspective. Animal protein around 10%. Then the G-BOMBS integration, we discussed that aspect. Now, your your point on supplementation from omega-3 perspective is clear. Everything else needs more evidence. And the amount of muscle percentage is not clear directly impacting the longevity, but the body fat is. So, body fat has direct correlation. That's that's my main takeaways from today. Now, from the foods that you mentioned, saying that let's say I'm pretty bad on most of the things that you mentioned. The top five things to implement, would it be legumes, mushrooms, onions? Like would you keep the fruit and the berries at the end? Would it be nuts and seeds? Like what's like from a priority perspective? Like if you as long as you get those 20% right, the other 80% will be fine. How should I take that? Well, you got you're summarizing it good. I don't know if I can answer that last question because I want you to eat the greens, beans, onions, mushrooms. I want you to have some onions and mushrooms. You take any one of them out, it's not so bad probably if you do the other five and the other five things, you know. Or if there's five as much as you can. So but but again, I want you to have different types of mushrooms. I don't want you to have one type of mushroom. I want you to have different types of vegetables and different types of green vegetables. And I you know, so I want you to have raw vegetables and cooked vegetables. I want you to have some cooked vegetables every day with green vegetable and raw vegetables in salad every day, too. You know, so I understand why people are such big fans of you.

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people are such big fans of you. is eating eating green vegetables with nuts and seeds, green vegetables with nuts and seeds and beans is probably the most important thing. Understood. You eating green vegetables and utilizing nuts and seeds and beans in your diet. I'm not making this up. Tomorrow, I'm trying to implement I'm going to have that big salad for lunch. I'm going to have no animal protein for lunch. I'll keep it for dinner. With breakfast, I'm not sure just yet. I don't think I can live without my eggs in the morning. So I can Put some What about some flax seeds? Flax seed after lunch. Flax seed after a drink? How about a drink with the flax seeds or chia seeds in there? Can't promise you that just yet. Might might And then with berries with some frozen berries in there. That's That I can do that part. I think I I think frozen berries adds to the the meals we have currently. Replacing lunch with a big salad with vegan protein, I think that's a clear clear implement that I can see that will not change my overall perception of what to do, but also I believe will still allow me to you know, to have the aesthetics that I'm striving towards, too. Now, question is, Mike, what did you hear today that you're going to implement tomorrow? I think I mean, this is something which I have actually been told by uh some nutritionists who've analyzed analyzed my blood work, and they do say uh I need to be consuming more leafy greens. And that's something which you know, myself, I I don't do. I think it's just cuz it's it's just not fun to eat, really. But, you know, it's um it's one of those things that's good for you. The nuts, the fruits. And the thing is, sometimes when I go out and I go to like a a good cafe or a really good restaurant that is focused on health and well-being, if you ask for a salad, they can make it delicious. Like, and they they pack it full of like everything. Yeah, I have like goji berries and and pomegranate arrows and a great tasting dressing that tastes fantastic. And

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dressing that tastes fantastic. And maybe some really good fruit times, and I'm having it I'm having everything in the salad is really delicious because we It's all about See, the experience of being a nutritarian is also knowing how to make great recipes to make it taste great, too, you know? Yeah, there's a place in Europe um called Honest Greens. I think they're in Spain and Portugal, and I think they opened one in London. I could eat there every day. It like on on paper, it doesn't sound appealing. But, the way that they prepare it is so delicious and just every every time I'd go there, I'd get a different plate, a different combination. It was all these different foods that were incredibly fresh, high quality, and I I think if you have access to that and it's convenient, it's easy. But, then when it becomes more of an inconvenience, for example, if you're going to have to go to the supermarket, you're going to have to buy everything, and you're going to have to like as you said, you're going to have to learn to kind of prepare it yourself to make it interesting. You can't just, you know, get a lettuce and put it in a bowl and add some tomatoes on and hope that you're going to enjoy it cuz you're probably not. You're going to have to do a little bit of research and figure out how to make it taste good. But when you do crack that, then it actually does it does end up becoming something you look forward to. So, for me, something I would take from this is definitely implementing the the salads, the leafy greens. I already have I I like my vegetables. Uh of course, I could probably diversify more a little bit and increase the quantity, but generally I'll have vegetables with every meal. But it's all those little things like the the seeds and the flax seeds and the nuts which I would I'm definitely not eating enough of at the moment. Joe, I have a question. You can break um We have the discussion for years now. Tomatoes, which is a fruit, but are they bad? Is there anything good about them? There's a powerful amount of scientific evidence and showing a link between tomatoes and tomato paste and tomato sauce consumption and longer lifespan and reduction of prostate cancer and

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and reduction of prostate cancer and breast cancer. And it's one of the benefits of the Mediterranean diet as to why they get longer lifespan is because of their use of tomato sauce. So, yes. There is a huge benefit for you to utilizing tomato products, particularly cooked tomatoes because the lycopene is more absorbable in cooked tomatoes and tomato sauce. I just make sauces that are low in salt. You know, we don't want a tomato sauce to be a delivery system for salt, you know. But yeah, tomatoes are really good for you. There's only a one in 50 people that are nightshade sensitive. You know, the key in there information. But do I hear cooked? So, like if if I'm getting to this paranoid stage where I'm like, okay, tomatoes, there's a lot of people have different opinions and you're saying tomato paste is good, which to me means I have to cook it. Would you say it's much better cooked or if it's not cooked, should I like the salad at lunch? I love tomatoes. use tomatoes not cooked, but there's some extra benefits from using the cooked version. Okay. Because you get more of the beneficial nutrients in in Thank you. That was a feud that I had for years with friends that would No Nobody knew at the restaurant, can you eat the tomatoes or not cuz there's so many opinions out there. The one thing that I want to I just I want to summarize from a Mike and my perspective is So, we've been doing this podcast for a little bit over a year with probably close to 100 guests now. And when we started the podcast because we had a lower amount of quantity to compare with, there were the people who were more carnivore, animal protein, a lot of protein, 1. 6 g of protein per kilogram, up to two two uh 2 g of protein per kilogram. And then more and more we speak to more and more doctors and MDs and professors and the more we go to the science route, the less we hear the amount of protein, the less we hear animal, the more we hear veget - you know, vegetables and vegan vegan protein sources and the longevity aspect where it's like, hey guys, stop pushing, stop reaching for the muscle mass, stop reaching for the you know, the the stress factors. Try to calm everything down if you actually want to prolong your life. And I think now Mike, at this point, Mike, I have to admit defeat. I think

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Mike, I have to admit defeat. I think science has won. I have to agree that being in a caloric deficit and not causing too much stress on the body and not having a high intake of animal-based protein might be the best way for longevity. It might not be the best way in your mid-30s to look the most jacked as you would say {quote} unquote, but I think from a longevity perspective. So, thank you Joel again for today's podcast. Um it was again continues to be eye-opening. The statements that you made in terms of impact on health, longevity, reduction of cancer, you know, by 95% by adding green tea and I think it was mushrooms, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. That was 89% for breast cancer in women who have both have mushrooms and green tea every day. Yeah. I mean, again, this is some of the things that I'm so grateful for having you on. I'm so grateful for you sharing this. And this is it stuff that I'm going to take with me on my journey personally, but also that I'm going to share with with the audience just from hey, there's enough data out there to actually tell us what to do. So, sometimes it might not be the the normal thing to do, but it's the best thing to do. So, thank you for your time. My pleasure. Thank you. And yes, I think you've you've made me rethink what it is that I'm doing with my goals, with my training and my my physique in general because um I mean for very long time it's just been like let's just be like as jacked as possible, as jacked and as aesthetic as possible. So, having the you know that this ideal ratio of muscle mass and body fat, but then I've been very aware of the fact that I'm constantly fighting my body to try and hold on to if not put on this muscle when it just doesn't want to hold on to it. Like if you give me like a week of maybe not training as hard or as frequent as I usually am, then you know, our body's like, okay, we don't need this muscle. Let's just get rid of it cuz there is really no need for you, Mike, to be holding on to this much muscle. It makes no sense. And then there's me like like no, come on. We've got to keep it. And it's yeah, it it doesn't

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keep it. And it's yeah, it it doesn't really when you think about it in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make sense to be super muscular. It's better just to to yes, to have a you know, an athletic aesthetic physique, but there's no need to be super jacked. Right. And I think that's a perfect summary. It's fun talking to you guys. It's a fun time. Okay, good luck to you all. Thank you. Hopefully see you again. Thanks so much. Anytime.