Sauna vs Infrared Sauna: Heat, Light, and EMF | Vitruvian

Video·Dr. Mercola·9 min read·May 6, 2024

Brian Richards joins Dr. Mercola to compare sauna traditions, near-infrared light, sweating, mitochondrial support, and the often-overlooked question of electromagnetic exposure.

Why Near-Infrared Matters

Sunlight is more than brightness on skin. In this conversation, near-infrared light becomes the missing signal in modern recovery: a part of the solar spectrum many of us receive less often, especially when work, weather, architecture, and clothing keep the body indoors. The point is not nostalgia for an older life. It is a reminder that biology responds to light with precision.

Photobiomodulation is light controlling biology, but in this case it's all about near infrared light activating healing and repair biology.

Richards frames the sun as a reference standard because a large share of sunlight sits in the near-infrared range. He describes sunlight as over 40 percent near-infrared, and from a photons-per-second perspective, near-infrared makes up roughly 70 percent. That matters because a protocol designed for the body should respect the signals the body evolved to receive. Recovery begins with relevance.

Dr. Mercola places special emphasis on near-infrared exposure as a support for mitochondrial melatonin. In his framing, this melatonin acts as an antioxidant inside subcellular spaces, including mitochondria, where it helps defend against oxidative damage. He also connects it with the body’s broader antioxidant systems, including glutathione-related enzymes, catalase, and superoxide dismutase. The practical outcome is simple: better cellular protection can support energy, resilience, and long-term vitality.

Photobiomodulation gives language to this light-driven relationship. Richards describes it as near-infrared light activating repair biology, improving protein function, supporting cellular aging processes, and helping the immune system find better balance. These are large claims, so they need grounded translation. Light becomes useful when it helps tissue recover, inflammation settle, and the body return to clarity after stress.

This expands the meaning of sauna beyond detoxification. Sweating still matters, and heat remains central, but the discussion asks whether a sauna can also deliver biologically meaningful light. In that view, the strongest sanctuary is not merely hot. It is deliberate, quiet, and aligned with the body’s native design.

▶ Watch on YouTube

View transcript

I am so excited because in this interview we're going to dive deep into interview we're going to dive deep into sauna which I believe not just sauna but sauna which I believe not just sauna but near infrared sauna which I believe is near infrared sauna which I believe is one of the most important Health one of the most important Health interventions because almost every one interventions because almost every one of us is not getting as much sun of us is not getting as much sun exposure we need especially on our skin exposure we need especially on our skin and what science has shown Us in the and what science has shown Us in the last few years is this this near last few years is this this near infrared exposure not just the UV to infrared exposure not just the UV to create vitamin D but the near infrared create vitamin D but the near infrared that creates one of the most important that creates one of the most important antioxidants antioxidants in your blood but in your subcellular in your blood but in your subcellular spaces specifically mitochondria called spaces specifically mitochondria called melatonin just a phenomenal maybe the melatonin just a phenomenal maybe the most important antioxidant your body most important antioxidant your body makes because not only does it directly makes because not only does it directly scaven free radicals but it also scaven free radicals but it also increases other uh uh antioxidants like increases other uh uh antioxidants like glutathion peroxid and glutathion glutathion peroxid and glutathion reductase and calat and superoxide reductase and calat and superoxide dismutates so these are really important dismutates so these are really important uh strategies your body has to protect uh strategies your body has to protect against oxidative damage so we're going

against oxidative damage so we're going to go deep into all the different types to go deep into all the different types of Sonos and the benefits and the of Sonos and the benefits and the features and the disadvantages of of features and the disadvantages of of each type so that you can have a very each type so that you can have a very clear understanding of which one makes clear understanding of which one makes the most sense for [Music] you the sun is um over over 40% infrared a uh near infrared and and from a photon a uh near infrared and and from a photon per second perspective it's like 70% per second perspective it's like 70% photons per second or near infrared so photons per second or near infrared so if you're not somewhere close to that if you're not somewhere close to that you're you're not in a really you're not you're you're not in a really you're not in that ancestral context of bi what's in that ancestral context of bi what's biologically relevant and what we're biologically relevant and what we're what we're evolved to get um there is a what we're evolved to get um there is a little bit from these infrar you know little bit from these infrar you know lower energy infrared sources but not lower energy infrared sources but not nearly what you get from the nearly what you get from the incandescent bulb photobiomodulation is incandescent bulb photobiomodulation is the use of near infrared light to heal the use of near infrared light to heal and repair uh degenerate and damaged

and repair uh degenerate and damaged tissue and cells and also optimize tissue and cells and also optimize healthy tissue if you look at the healthy tissue if you look at the Spectrum of the sun you know 43% is near Spectrum of the sun you know 43% is near infrared and if you add in red you know infrared and if you add in red you know it gets to be over 50% is in this it gets to be over 50% is in this photobiomodulation range that photobiomodulation range that photobiomodulation is light controlling photobiomodulation is light controlling biology but in this case it's it's all biology but in this case it's it's all about near for light uh activating about near for light uh activating healing and repair biology in the body healing and repair biology in the body it's repairing damaged tissue it's it's it's repairing damaged tissue it's it's improving protein function it has improving protein function it has anti-aging effects in the cells uh you anti-aging effects in the cells uh you know in the DNA and the epigenetics and know in the DNA and the epigenetics and it's boosting and modulating the immune it's boosting and modulating the immune system you know people are using it for system you know people are using it for inflammation reduction also sauna for inflammation reduction also sauna for inflammation reduction so if you look at inflammation reduction so if you look at the list of photobiomodulation the list the list of photobiomodulation the list of sauna there's so much overlap um that of sauna there's so much overlap um that it's like wow these are probably the two it's like wow these are probably the two most powerful things you could do for most powerful things you could do for your health at the end of the day Dr your health at the end of the day Dr mcole I think if you sweat and the and mcole I think if you sweat and the and you you get that sweat response you get you you get that sweat response you get that elevated core temperature increase that elevated core temperature increase you're getting great benefit you because you're getting great benefit you because not only you getting the detox and heat

not only you getting the detox and heat Shack protein benefits but you're Shack protein benefits but you're getting the increase in that melatonin getting the increase in that melatonin which is going to really improve your which is going to really improve your mitochondrial function overall increase mitochondrial function overall increase your energy levels and ATP production your energy levels and ATP production and decrease damage to your cells your and decrease damage to your cells your DNA cell membranes proteins stem cells DNA cell membranes proteins stem cells all of all of it welcome everyone Dr marola helping it welcome everyone Dr marola helping you take control of your health and you take control of your health and today we're going to talk about one of today we're going to talk about one of my favorite absolute favorite and I my favorite absolute favorite and I consider essential biohacks which is consider essential biohacks which is sauna sauna and you know I did a article earlier and you know I did a article earlier this year on sauna that that I think is this year on sauna that that I think is really an epic and landmark article and really an epic and landmark article and quite truthfully I don't believe anyone quite truthfully I don't believe anyone has ever written as comprehensive and has ever written as comprehensive and detailed uh and how to do sa a article detailed uh and how to do sa a article in the past I mean this is epic and I in the past I mean this is epic and I was kind of surprised that people didn't was kind of surprised that people didn't really get it but we're going to talk to really get it but we're going to talk to Brian Richards who I'm a big fan of his Brian Richards who I'm a big fan of his company because he provides the B bis

company because he provides the B bis for what I believe is creating the best for what I believe is creating the best Sona and we're going to talk about why Sona and we're going to talk about why Sona is so important because it's not Sona is so important because it's not just for detox absolutely not just for just for detox absolutely not just for detox that's one good benefit but detox that's one good benefit but there's three two other major benefits there's three two other major benefits and not all sonot types provide these and not all sonot types provide these benefits and we're going to go into benefits and we're going to go into details of in specific so Brian Richards details of in specific so Brian Richards is the uh founder of SAA space uh really is the uh founder of SAA space uh really clever entrepreneur who's committed to clever entrepreneur who's committed to providing high providing high quality uh resources to help you take quality uh resources to help you take control of your health and and actually control of your health and and actually U start a process of somewhat U start a process of somewhat substituting for one of the substituting for one of the primary deficiencies that most people primary deficiencies that most people have in their life and that is not have in their life and that is not insufficient sun exposure uh so sauna insufficient sun exposure uh so sauna obviously is not going to create vitamin obviously is not going to create vitamin D but it can provide something that D but it can provide something that almost equally as good we'll talk about almost equally as good we'll talk about that in a bit so welcome and thank you that in a bit so welcome and thank you for joining us today BR thank you for for joining us today BR thank you for having me Dr M Okay so uh where do we

having me Dr M Okay so uh where do we start start uh light the yeah start with the light uh light the yeah start with the light so so actually most I mean if I'll put a link actually most I mean if I'll put a link to the previous article the The Landmark to the previous article the The Landmark epic article I referenced in the intro epic article I referenced in the intro uh so that people uh if they want they uh so that people uh if they want they can look at that uh it's behind a can look at that uh it's behind a substate substate substate substate substack firewall at this point but uh substack firewall at this point but uh we have a large number of readers who we have a large number of readers who have subsc access so uh and it's have subsc access so uh and it's available if you if you want to available if you if you want to participate subsec so anyway the that participate subsec so anyway the that article goes into great details of the article goes into great details of the benefits of sauna so I don't really want benefits of sauna so I don't really want to dive deep into there I want to really to dive deep into there I want to really go into some of teasing out some of the go into some of teasing out some of the details of how we can achieve these details of how we can achieve these benefits but essentially the foundation benefits but essentially the foundation the premise for why this is such a the premise for why this is such a useful tool the scientific validation useful tool the scientific validation for that occurs from an evaluation of for that occurs from an evaluation of where sauna is the most popular most where sauna is the most popular most popular country in the world is Finland

popular country in the world is Finland and almost all the primary basic and almost all the primary basic research is based on that and and this I research is based on that and and this I want to explore with you because it's a want to explore with you because it's a foundation it's it really is what gives foundation it's it really is what gives us the confidence that we can be so us the confidence that we can be so uh spectacularly assured that once uh spectacularly assured that once someone implements these therapies that someone implements these therapies that they're going to get benefits not some they're going to get benefits not some benefits we're talking spectacular benefits we're talking spectacular reductions in all cost mortalities and reductions in all cost mortalities and and just improve radical improvements in and just improve radical improvements in health uh so the the basis of a finish health uh so the the basis of a finish which I'm sure you've studied carefully which I'm sure you've studied carefully is is is is a a room that has a heater of some sort a a room that has a heater of some sort uh and that is essentially a dry heat um uh and that is essentially a dry heat um but from my best understanding it's far but from my best understanding it's far infrared only uh because the heat is infrared only uh because the heat is Carri is infrared there's no there may Carri is infrared there's no there may be some mid infrared but I don't think be some mid infrared but I don't think there's any near so maybe you can help there's any near so maybe you can help us understand that and more importantly us understand that and more importantly describe the most common ways that Thea

describe the most common ways that Thea Finnish sauna is also referred to as the Finnish sauna is also referred to as the traditional sauna that that these traditional sauna that that these traditional sauna is use to create the traditional sauna is use to create the heat yeah the the history of sauna goes heat yeah the the history of sauna goes back thousands of years really in every back thousands of years really in every human culture has a sauna tradition and human culture has a sauna tradition and the original uh sauna Traditions are are the original uh sauna Traditions are are Woodfired saunas in Finland uh which Woodfired saunas in Finland uh which still exist today but uh not just there still exist today but uh not just there in in in Russia the the Russian Bas the in in in Russia the the Russian Bas the the Japanese the Korean Hot pool schols the Japanese the Korean Hot pool schols they had they had uh saunas actually in they had they had uh saunas actually in Ireland like little cave saunas and of Ireland like little cave saunas and of course the the Native American sweat course the the Native American sweat lodes so you you see various ways of of lodes so you you see various ways of of sweating passively in in a inside an sweating passively in in a inside an enclosed space that's heated up that enclosed space that's heated up that dates back a long time but nowadays dates back a long time but nowadays everybody uses or most people use everybody uses or most people use electrically powered saunas very few electrically powered saunas very few people have access to a Woodfired sauna people have access to a Woodfired sauna per se uh interestingly the first

per se uh interestingly the first electric leap uh powered sauna is the electric leap uh powered sauna is the sauna technology that sauna space sauna technology that sauna space incorporates um and it was invented in incorporates um and it was invented in 1893 shortly after or excuse me 1891 1893 shortly after or excuse me 1891 shortly after the Advent of the shortly after the Advent of the incandescent lipo in incandescent lipo in 1887 Dr John Harvey Kellogg invented 1887 Dr John Harvey Kellogg invented What's called the electric incandescent What's called the electric incandescent light bath and so he was using uh a in light bath and so he was using uh a in this Victorian style cabinet a a aray of this Victorian style cabinet a a aray of a large number of incandescent light a large number of incandescent light bulbs and he didn't know it was was he bulbs and he didn't know it was was he he knew there was something special he knew there was something special about the light and he said you know about the light and he said you know what this might be a better way to do what this might be a better way to do sauna let's use this these light bulbs sauna let's use this these light bulbs and this light to heat the body and this light to heat the body radiantly uh little did he know how how radiantly uh little did he know how how powerful the you know the the powerful the you know the the photobiomodulation benefits are that I'm photobiomodulation benefits are that I'm sure we'll talk about in a minute but sure we'll talk about in a minute but but anyway that that SAA is 130 years but anyway that that SAA is 130 years old that's 130 years of safe use yeah old that's 130 years of safe use yeah and he used it he used it uh for over

and he used it he used it uh for over 50,000 patients with chronic uh disease 50,000 patients with chronic uh disease in the first decade of the 20th century in the first decade of the 20th century and he wrote a book on it called uh and he wrote a book on it called uh light Therapeutics he published that in light Therapeutics he published that in 1910 so Dr Kellogg's light Therapeutics 1910 so Dr Kellogg's light Therapeutics which you can read about you can read it which you can read about you can read it on the you know um online and and uh on the you know um online and and uh it's fascinating that there was such a it's fascinating that there was such a high level understanding of light high level understanding of light therapy uh over a hundred years ago and therapy uh over a hundred years ago and yet yet uh like do Arthur dinshaw's work and uh like do Arthur dinshaw's work and other other work other uses of light other other work other uses of light therapy in the early 20th century was therapy in the early 20th century was kind of lost kind of lost in time for a kind of lost kind of lost in time for a long time what what people think of as long time what what people think of as the uh when people commonly think of an the uh when people commonly think of an electrically powered sauna they think of electrically powered sauna they think of the Finnish hot rock sauna so it's it's the Finnish hot rock sauna so it's it's a big 30 amp heater a very you know High a big 30 amp heater a very you know High electrical use heater that heats up electrical use heater that heats up electrical coils in a in like a little electrical coils in a in like a little little box that's sits on on on the

little box that's sits on on on the ground in the sauna and has hot rocks on ground in the sauna and has hot rocks on the top and so you that heats up the air the top and so you that heats up the air really hot you know to uh the the really hot you know to uh the the average finish saunas you know like you average finish saunas you know like you say about 170 degrees Fahrenheit or so say about 170 degrees Fahrenheit or so and and uh that is what is the most and and uh that is what is the most common type of of electrical sauna prior common type of of electrical sauna prior to the introduction of infrared to the introduction of infrared saunas okay so I've got some questions saunas okay so I've got some questions on there because at least I'm confused on there because at least I'm confused about some if I'm confused about it I'm about some if I'm confused about it I'm sure others are so the would it be fair sure others are so the would it be fair to classify the heat that's being rated to classify the heat that's being rated in this electrical one uh electrical in this electrical one uh electrical that contemporary version of the Finish that contemporary version of the Finish Ono which is typically electric uh that Ono which is typically electric uh that that rad that that heat is given off as that rad that that heat is given off as far far infrared well it's not even really infrared well it's not even really infrared so much I mean yeah the heater infrared so much I mean yeah the heater glows a little bit so there's some glows a little bit so there's some infrared there but it's it's primarily infrared there but it's it's primarily heating the air conductively and then heating the air conductively and then that hot air moves around through

that hot air moves around through convection and and then the hot air convection and and then the hot air heats up the user uh conductively so the heats up the user uh conductively so the hot air and us being T the body touching hot air and us being T the body touching the hot air heats the uh the air heats the hot air heats the uh the air heats up the body through conduction directly up the body through conduction directly so from the outside in it's it's not uh so from the outside in it's it's not uh I think when people think of infrared I think when people think of infrared heat they think of radiant heat right heat they think of radiant heat right and and it's really not that it's uh and and it's really not that it's uh it's it's more of a conductive heating it's it's more of a conductive heating system so you heat the air up hot just system so you heat the air up hot just as the Woodfired would do the same it's as the Woodfired would do the same it's primarily this really hot air around primarily this really hot air around that uh will slowly heat the body up um that uh will slowly heat the body up um but if he had a wood fired son You' but if he had a wood fired son You' definitely be getting INF fored you definitely be getting INF fored you would be getting some uh but yeah I you would be getting some uh but yeah I you know I'm sure we'll talk about it but in know I'm sure we'll talk about it but in terms of terms of biologically relevant photobiomodulation biologically relevant photobiomodulation levels that's you know they're there but levels that's you know they're there but not certainly not what you get from an not certainly not what you get from an incandescent lamp or or the Sun so a big incandescent lamp or or the Sun so a big downside of the Finish s at least in the downside of the Finish s at least in the Contemporary even even the the

Contemporary even even the the traditional ones would be no infrared or traditional ones would be no infrared or very very clinically insignificant very very clinically insignificant amounts of infrared yeah yeah very amounts of infrared yeah yeah very little you're talking about you know the little you're talking about you know the sun is um over over 40% infrared a uh sun is um over over 40% infrared a uh near infrared and and from a photons per near infrared and and from a photons per second perspective it's like 70% photons second perspective it's like 70% photons per second are near infrared so if per second are near infrared so if you're not somewhere close to that you're not somewhere close to that you're you're not in a really you're not you're you're not in a really you're not in that ancestral context of bi what's in that ancestral context of bi what's biologically biologically relevant and what we're what we're relevant and what we're what we're evolved to get um there is a little bit evolved to get um there is a little bit from these infra you know lower energy from these infra you know lower energy infrared sources but not nearly what you infrared sources but not nearly what you get from the incandescent get from the incandescent bulb okay this is great and because it's bulb okay this is great and because it's confirming some of my suspicion so I I confirming some of my suspicion so I I guess the other major issue with imple guess the other major issue with imple implementing a traditional finish type implementing a traditional finish type sauna is that you mentioned there's an sauna is that you mentioned there's an electrical heater of some sort to create electrical heater of some sort to create the the conductive heat that's produced the the conductive heat that's produced so in that process one has to be very

so in that process one has to be very careful because any type of careful because any type of Electrical uh unit is going to Electrical uh unit is going to potentially have emfs and I'm wondering potentially have emfs and I'm wondering if you and that's one of your if you and that's one of your Specialties which is what uh really Specialties which is what uh really caused me to massively Embrace on a caused me to massively Embrace on a space early on because of your space early on because of your commitment to really mitigating it commitment to really mitigating it against the dangers of bemf so what is against the dangers of bemf so what is your experience in the saas and the your experience in the saas and the heaters that have been using finish heaters that have been using finish sonas with respect to their um radiating sonas with respect to their um radiating emfs both either magnetic in electric emfs both either magnetic in electric Fields uh the the primary EMF stressor Fields uh the the primary EMF stressor in uh those is probably electric field in uh those is probably electric field uh it's just as bad as magnetic field um uh it's just as bad as magnetic field um uh magnetic fields you know a little uh magnetic fields you know a little more difficult to mitigate but electric more difficult to mitigate but electric fields and any unshielded wiring are fields and any unshielded wiring are significant and if you talk about a significant and if you talk about a electrical heater that uses 20 or 30 electrical heater that uses 20 or 30 amps it's a it's a lot of voltage that amps it's a it's a lot of voltage that in an unshielded scenario um you know um in an unshielded scenario um you know um electric Fields travel through water if

electric Fields travel through water if they travel through humidity in the air they travel through humidity in the air and in in the stools and everything and in in the stools and everything that's that's why they're so pervasive that's that's why they're so pervasive in homes you think my electric my in homes you think my electric my unshielded electrical wiring in my room unshielded electrical wiring in my room is no big deal because it's far away is no big deal because it's far away from me but the fact is it can travel from me but the fact is it can travel through the air through the the moisture through the air through the the moisture in the air and in the carpet and the in the air and in the carpet and the wood in the floor and and reach you and wood in the floor and and reach you and then increase your body's voltage so uh then increase your body's voltage so uh having a 20 or 30 amp electrical source having a 20 or 30 amp electrical source from a finish electric heater that's not from a finish electric heater that's not shielded shielded is is problematic it's uh but it's not is is problematic it's uh but it's not just those either it's it's really any just those either it's it's really any electrical device has the potential to electrical device has the potential to subject you to undesirable subject you to undesirable electromagnetic stress so you know the electromagnetic stress so you know the the the the the traditional electric heat finish the the traditional electric heat finish sauna the electric hot rock sauna I sauna the electric hot rock sauna I would say is actually not the most would say is actually not the most common sauna out there uh the most common sauna out there uh the most common sauna out there really is the far common sauna out there really is the far infrared sauna that's certainly true the infrared sauna that's certainly true the United States is that true worldwide

United States is that true worldwide globally uh no but you're you're right globally uh no but you're you're right in Finland is it's a sauna as a main in Finland is it's a sauna as a main State you know I think they actually State you know I think they actually have a mandate there for building new have a mandate there for building new homes that they they must include a homes that they they must include a sauna in new buildings but uh most sauna in new buildings but uh most countries are not like Finland and and countries are not like Finland and and and I I suppose my my experience is most and I I suppose my my experience is most uh I have most of my experience here in uh I have most of my experience here in the US where we're based and here in the the US where we're based and here in the US the most common sauna out there is US the most common sauna out there is the far fored sauna that uses either the far fored sauna that uses either ceramic tube amids or or it has little ceramic tube amids or or it has little black carbon panels that amid primarily black carbon panels that amid primarily low low energy long wavelength farm low low energy long wavelength farm fored and in my personal testing of fored and in my personal testing of those they're they tend to all be um those they're they tend to all be um High electric field and high magnetic High electric field and high magnetic field and and especially your how you field and and especially your how you sit in those your your your back is sit in those your your your back is usually at very close proximity to the usually at very close proximity to the the ceramic heater itself and so you're the ceramic heater itself and so you're within that magnetic field and then within that magnetic field and then without using shielded uh technology you

without using shielded uh technology you know you are exposing yourself to know you are exposing yourself to Electric Fields both in the Finnish Electric Fields both in the Finnish electric hot hot rock sauna and in the electric hot hot rock sauna and in the traditional farm for red sauna so uh traditional farm for red sauna so uh though for those who may not be familiar though for those who may not be familiar with it magnetic fields are really with it magnetic fields are really problematic but problematic but fortunately they fall off typically very fortunately they fall off typically very rapidly so that with rapidly so that with you're usually a few inches but you're usually a few inches but certainly within a foot if you're a foot certainly within a foot if you're a foot away way it's it's almost insignificant away way it's it's almost insignificant because of the the rate at which they because of the the rate at which they fall off but that's not true for fall off but that's not true for electric Fields they really permeate electric Fields they really permeate quite distance so um when did far quite distance so um when did far infrared saunas become widespread in the infrared saunas become widespread in the US is it 20 years ago or so 15 yeah US is it 20 years ago or so 15 yeah maybe even more than that you know the maybe even more than that you know the the the ceramic emitter the farm Fred the the ceramic emitter the farm Fred ceramic emitter technology I think dates ceramic emitter technology I think dates back to the late 60s uh early 70s but as back to the late 60s uh early 70s but as far as the incorporation into consumer far as the incorporation into consumer products that we products that we ffred cabinet saas you see that more in

ffred cabinet saas you see that more in the in yeah in introduction in the 70s the in yeah in introduction in the 70s and 80s um at a time in which there was and 80s um at a time in which there was no concern over electromagnetic stress no concern over electromagnetic stress nobody had any idea that uh it it was nobody had any idea that uh it it was not mainstream at all there was no yeah not mainstream at all there was no yeah deep study you know there wasn't the deep study you know there wasn't the Martin Paul research and other research Martin Paul research and other research there was the Body Electric and and some there was the Body Electric and and some you know some indication of it but you know some indication of it but Becker yeah sure so uh the uh that's Becker yeah sure so uh the uh that's really inter kind of like smoking was in really inter kind of like smoking was in the you know 30s 40s and 50s you the you know 30s 40s and 50s you know it wasn't people had no clue that know it wasn't people had no clue that it was but but it was there was it was but but it was there was obviously an issue there it was just obviously an issue there it was just yeah yeah 100% simar story it's an analogy I made 100% simar story it's an analogy I made quite quite clear in my book MF so um I quite quite clear in my book MF so um I want to get back to the forign Fred want to get back to the forign Fred because so many I mean I have some some because so many I mean I have some some of the hugest pet peeves I have in the of the hugest pet peeves I have in the health industry is against many of the health industry is against many of the far infrared sauna manufacturers far infrared sauna manufacturers for essentially blatant lying and fraud

for essentially blatant lying and fraud and deception that you know that should and deception that you know that should least should in reality the truth be least should in reality the truth be told their their company should be shut told their their company should be shut down for for fraudulent advertising so down for for fraudulent advertising so there this not true for all of them but there this not true for all of them but it's true for many um certainly so the it's true for many um certainly so the the many claim that there is they have a the many claim that there is they have a there's a lot of claims they make that I there's a lot of claims they make that I have problems with one is that there's have problems with one is that there's they have it's an EMF free sauna or low they have it's an EMF free sauna or low EMF sauna EMF sauna and my experience with that and I want and my experience with that and I want to get your input on it is to get your input on it is that the most a with the exception of that the most a with the exception of one maybe two sa manufacturers that make one maybe two sa manufacturers that make this claim that it's it's true that the this claim that it's it's true that the typically that the magnetic fields are typically that the magnetic fields are really low they mitigate against that really low they mitigate against that which is the biggest uh claim against which is the biggest uh claim against most of these devices that they had high most of these devices that they had high magnetic field so they were able to magnetic field so they were able to lower it to essentially biologically re lower it to essentially biologically re reasonable level reasonable level but they almost every single one of them

but they almost every single one of them fail to to mitigate the electric fields fail to to mitigate the electric fields and this is particularly true for I'm and this is particularly true for I'm not sure the type it's called but it's a not sure the type it's called but it's a it's like a little tent it's much it's like a little tent it's much smaller than yours where your head is smaller than yours where your head is out of it uh and um I could think of two out of it uh and um I could think of two companies specifically who just are just companies specifically who just are just terrible for this because of their terrible for this because of their claims are making and they they claim claims are making and they they claim that they they they just lie I mean they that they they they just lie I mean they they say these electric fields they say these electric fields that they have no EMF and their that they have no EMF and their electrical fields are through the roof electrical fields are through the roof we've measured them many many times it's we've measured them many many times it's just outrageous so you know so that's my just outrageous so you know so that's my experience there's a few that get it experience there's a few that get it that have actually low emfs both that have actually low emfs both electric and magnetic fields but I've electric and magnetic fields but I've only seen that in one that I know of it only seen that in one that I know of it could be another one that I just can't could be another one that I just can't recall at this time so what what is your recall at this time so what what is your experience in that my experience is is experience in that my experience is is is really that and i' I've measured many is really that and i' I've measured many uh many Brands uh uh over time and and uh many Brands uh uh over time and and and you're right the and you're right the ffred style of sauna comes in a couple

ffred style of sauna comes in a couple different forms the the most obvious one different forms the the most obvious one is the cabinet style that looks like a is the cabinet style that looks like a traditional finish sauna but there's traditional finish sauna but there's ceramic tube emitters or black carbon ceramic tube emitters or black carbon panels in the walls and all the ones panels in the walls and all the ones that I've seen have high magnetic fields that I've seen have high magnetic fields and high electric Fields there is one and high electric Fields there is one company that I actually measured with uh company that I actually measured with uh Brian Hoyer as it were we were together Brian Hoyer as it were we were together at a conference and it was low in at a conference and it was low in magnetic field which was great that's a magnetic field which was great that's a great Improvement but the electric great Improvement but the electric Fields were like you say they were Fields were like you say they were through the roof they were uh in uh through the roof they were uh in uh Beyond Mill volts and hundreds of molts Beyond Mill volts and hundreds of molts into the volts range and I had one that into the volts range and I had one that I measured that I was given to try it I measured that I was given to try it was tens of thousands of molts it was was tens of thousands of molts it was 60,000 molts yeah it it's like 10 volts 60,000 molts yeah it it's like 10 volts it's like a it's like a lot so so yeah that that's my experience lot so so yeah that that's my experience too especially the the the style that's too especially the the the style that's a little more portable where your head a little more portable where your head and your arms kind of stick out it's and your arms kind of stick out it's it's more of a usually it's a usually

it's more of a usually it's a usually the arms are still in there or the arms the arms are still in there or the arms can be still in but it's a foil foil bag can be still in but it's a foil foil bag it's more marketed as a portable far it's more marketed as a portable far infrared sauna so they yeah they they infrared sauna so they yeah they they all have issues uh even the ones where all have issues uh even the ones where they've managed to to minimize the they've managed to to minimize the amount of magnetic field they all seem amount of magnetic field they all seem to have electric field issues and to have electric field issues and furthermore they don't offer any furthermore they don't offer any protection from the ambient protection from the ambient uh electromagnetic stress that's in the uh electromagnetic stress that's in the environment and and that's why for environment and and that's why for example you know one of the products example you know one of the products that I offer um has a a faraday liner that I offer um has a a faraday liner system that protects you from the system that protects you from the ambient electric Fields it's not enough ambient electric Fields it's not enough to say okay U let's Shield this to say okay U let's Shield this technology so there you know there's no technology so there you know there's no electric field or magnetic field electric field or magnetic field exposure from from the sauna space uh exposure from from the sauna space uh panels on the user what about making panels on the user what about making their sauna experience uh their sauna experience uh electromagnetically clean and pure and electromagnetically clean and pure and and protecting the ambient EMF so we're and protecting the ambient EMF so we're you know I worked really hard to provide you know I worked really hard to provide that sort of solution and you don't see that sort of solution and you don't see that really in any of these M uh

that really in any of these M uh infrared products uh whether it's or or infrared products uh whether it's or or finish onas uh either but yeah they're finish onas uh either but yeah they're they're you know I don't like to they're you know I don't like to disparage any companies I think there's disparage any companies I think there's some great products out there and at the some great products out there and at the end of the day Dr mcole I think if you end of the day Dr mcole I think if you sweat and the and you you get that sweat sweat and the and you you get that sweat response you get that elevated core response you get that elevated core temperature increase you're getting temperature increase you're getting great benefit but but to have to be great benefit but but to have to be exposed to the oxidative stress of EMF exposed to the oxidative stress of EMF stress during the session for me is like stress during the session for me is like not ideal that would be like meditating not ideal that would be like meditating in a polluted environment or something in a polluted environment or something yeah I I agree I and I don't really want yeah I I agree I and I don't really want to push that benefit because it's to push that benefit because it's clearly a benefit but in my view it's clearly a benefit but in my view it's almost the icing on the cake because you almost the icing on the cake because you have to to accept that as a primary have to to accept that as a primary benefit you have to believe that emfs benefit you have to believe that emfs are are dangerous uh but because essentially if dangerous uh but because essentially if you don't you don't then adopt that I mean the people who then adopt that I mean the people who believe that typically have done pretty believe that typically have done pretty good work in their own home to get a good work in their own home to get a relatively low EMF exposure like I have

relatively low EMF exposure like I have in my house so I mean I don't feel badly in my house so I mean I don't feel badly although I'm using one of your systems although I'm using one of your systems that is shielded I would have no no that is shielded I would have no no problem using a non-shielded because my problem using a non-shielded because my ambient levels are so low relatively ambient levels are so low relatively speaking Yeah and and my original speaking Yeah and and my original healing story Dr brola was with a healing story Dr brola was with a bricolage version of what I offer now bricolage version of what I offer now and there was no electromagnetic and there was no electromagnetic shielding at all and I still had shielding at all and I still had incredible uh Incredible Journey yeah I incredible uh Incredible Journey yeah I I I don't want to make it that we're I I don't want to make it that we're claiming that oh this shielding is the claiming that oh this shielding is the cats meow you got to have it it it cats meow you got to have it it it clearly is is beneficial no question but clearly is is beneficial no question but the benefit you're going to get is kind the benefit you're going to get is kind of related to your ambient exposure and of related to your ambient exposure and that's highly variable so we can almost that's highly variable so we can almost put that to the side it's it's it's put that to the side it's it's it's another great benefit but the the the another great benefit but the the the core that I really want to discuss is core that I really want to discuss is that the comparison of these that the comparison of these Technologies because you know people Technologies because you know people routinely in in this this field are routinely in in this this field are going to hear the benefits of sa and going to hear the benefits of sa and they're going to be intrigued about it they're going to be intrigued about it and seek to implement themselves and seek to implement themselves uh and you know the the the I guess the

uh and you know the the the I guess the foundational concept that I'm not sure I foundational concept that I'm not sure I mentioned in my original sauna article mentioned in my original sauna article but is is sort of intuitively obvious is but is is sort of intuitively obvious is sauna is a really personal thing because sauna is a really personal thing because if you're if it's going to be an if you're if it's going to be an effective sauna you're going to release effective sauna you're going to release toxins that are stored in your body and toxins that are stored in your body and those toxins are going to contaminate those toxins are going to contaminate the enclosure that your sauna is in so the enclosure that your sauna is in so you really ideally do not want to be you really ideally do not want to be sharing a sauna with someone unless sharing a sauna with someone unless you're really careful about cleaning the you're really careful about cleaning the sauna and absorbing those those toxins sauna and absorbing those those toxins that are released from the previous user that are released from the previous user of the sauna so that in my mind almost of the sauna so that in my mind almost eliminates the use of sauna in a gym or eliminates the use of sauna in a gym or some other therapeutic some other therapeutic inter that's my what's your take on inter that's my what's your take on what's your take well the the you know what's your take well the the you know that uh to uh you know the Counterpoint that uh to uh you know the Counterpoint of that is that the Finish sauna is a of that is that the Finish sauna is a social experience and and they are social experience and and they are always in there and they're getting always in there and they're getting together they're they're sweating it out together they're they're sweating it out but I I I definitely agree with you that

but I I I definitely agree with you that the sauna it's it's an intimate the sauna it's it's an intimate experience it's something that you you experience it's something that you you want to have your own I of course share want to have your own I of course share mine with my wife but I live with my mine with my wife but I live with my wife we have the same microbiome and and wife we have the same microbiome and and all that um it's well and also she she all that um it's well and also she she leaves pry you both live pretty cleanly leaves pry you both live pretty cleanly so that you're not she's not excreting a so that you're not she's not excreting a lot of toxins and she and she's been lot of toxins and she and she's been doing sauna for a while so in that doing sauna for a while so in that scenario the exposure is relatively scenario the exposure is relatively minimal yeah but I I think ultimately minimal yeah but I I think ultimately all these things again it's you know all these things again it's you know there's there's definitely ways you can there's there's definitely ways you can tweak the experience and and improve it tweak the experience and and improve it but ultimately just getting in there but ultimately just getting in there four times a week you know that that four times a week you know that that that's that's the the results of the The that's that's the the results of the The Dr Ronda Patrick uh study that reference Dr Ronda Patrick uh study that reference the stunning benefits of sauna and and the stunning benefits of sauna and and these long-term finished studies they these long-term finished studies they show that uh what you need to do is use show that uh what you need to do is use it four times a week uh and even um once it four times a week uh and even um once a week's really not as amazing as three a week's really not as amazing as three or four times a week so having a sauna or four times a week so having a sauna at home for nothing uh else uh just for

at home for nothing uh else uh just for the convenience and the ability to the convenience and the ability to maintain that discipline of frequent maintain that discipline of frequent uses is the most important thing okay uses is the most important thing okay now I want to dive into it I think is now I want to dive into it I think is probably the most a significant benefit probably the most a significant benefit in my view my humble view of of being a in my view my humble view of of being a a passionate advocate of Natural Health a passionate advocate of Natural Health healing strategies is and this is healing strategies is and this is something I more really relatively something I more really relatively recently appreciated long after I've recently appreciated long after I've gotten an interest in sauna and and this gotten an interest in sauna and and this is the uh issue I referenced and you is the uh issue I referenced and you referenced earlier with respect to referenced earlier with respect to photobiomodulation so that essentially photobiomodulation so that essentially is a fancy term for ascribing the is a fancy term for ascribing the biological benefits of light exposure to biological benefits of light exposure to the human body um so optimizing that so the human body um so optimizing that so the reason this is important is in my the reason this is important is in my mind is that I don't have that maybe you mind is that I don't have that maybe you have the numbers on this but have the numbers on this but I'm pretty sure they're shocking the the

I'm pretty sure they're shocking the the the number of minutes per day that the the number of minutes per day that the average person in the US is actually average person in the US is actually outside in the sun oh it's it's wul I outside in the sun oh it's it's wul I don't know what it is under 10 minutes I don't know what it is under 10 minutes I guess and then it's not they're wearing guess and then it's not they're wearing shirts and long pants so it's almost no shirts and long pants so it's almost no exposure clinically almost no clinically exposure clinically almost no clinically significant exposure to the Sun and that significant exposure to the Sun and that is there is just absolutely no doubt in is there is just absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's this prescription for my mind that it's this prescription for health disaster you cannot violate one health disaster you cannot violate one of our most pervasive ancestral of our most pervasive ancestral practices which is being practices which is being outside regularly for long periods of outside regularly for long periods of time without significant biological time without significant biological consequences so um the only sauna that consequences so um the only sauna that provides provides photobiomodulation despite some of the photobiomodulation despite some of the Absurd ludicrous in same claims that Absurd ludicrous in same claims that some of the far infrared SAA makes say

some of the far infrared SAA makes say they're a full spectrum far infrared they're a full spectrum far infrared sauna I've never seen anyone that is sauna I've never seen anyone that is never never except for yours because it never never except for yours because it truly is indeed a full spectrum infrared truly is indeed a full spectrum infrared son and and yours is see that well son and and yours is see that well there's are analog too that means they there's are analog too that means they they produce it over a wide range it's they produce it over a wide range it's not just several dis discrete not just several dis discrete frequencies like they use in the PBM frequencies like they use in the PBM units the poal biom modulation units units the poal biom modulation units like uh the three primary manufacturers like uh the three primary manufacturers out there which which has its own own out there which which has its own own benefits and I I think they're all good benefits and I I think they're all good I use all three of them I use natural I use all three of them I use natural sunlight I use the mid infrared SAA like sunlight I use the mid infrared SAA like yours which I think is the best yours which I think is the best description for it and then the uh sun description for it and then the uh sun exposure so anyway the the reason why exposure so anyway the the reason why being exposing your skin to the sun is being exposing your skin to the sun is so useful it's not just for vitamin D so useful it's not just for vitamin D and I'm not going to spend a lot of time and I'm not going to spend a lot of time on that because I've talked about it for on that because I've talked about it for over two decades and people know how over two decades and people know how passionate I am and you know they passionate I am and you know they probably read and listened to me much my probably read and listened to me much my information on this in the past but I information on this in the past but I have not swallow a vitamin D pill for have not swallow a vitamin D pill for over 15 years and my vitamin D levels

over 15 years and my vitamin D levels are optimal and that's because I'm out are optimal and that's because I'm out in the sun and I'm out in the sun with in the sun and I'm out in the sun with no shirt and I'm and shorts and pretty no shirt and I'm and shorts and pretty much 80% of the days of the year this is much 80% of the days of the year this is happening you know there's a number you happening you know there's a number you know I'm traveling and if the weather is know I'm traveling and if the weather is is less than good or I'm just tired I is less than good or I'm just tired I won't do the walk but I almost always do won't do the walk but I almost always do and I didn't understand or realize I and I didn't understand or realize I kind of intuitively knew there was kind of intuitively knew there was something else going on but I didn't something else going on but I didn't really fully appreciate it at that that really fully appreciate it at that that infrared exposure and as you mentioned infrared exposure and as you mentioned well 40% of is near infrared of this of well 40% of is near infrared of this of the the the light coming out of the sun the the the light coming out of the sun is near infed because only 7% is is near infed because only 7% is ultraviolet B and uh I think it's uh 40 ultraviolet B and uh I think it's uh 40 39% is visible light and then 39% is visible light and then 54% is infrared 40% of being near the 54% is infrared 40% of being near the other being mid and far so but the vast other being mid and far so but the vast majority of all of it if you could majority of all of it if you could sequence it is near infrared and the sequence it is near infrared and the benefit of that near for is it increases benefit of that near for is it increases melatonin uh in what's called

melatonin uh in what's called subcellular melatonin in the past we subcellular melatonin in the past we thought almost all of it came from your thought almost all of it came from your pineal gland in response pineal gland in response to bright light exposure in the daytime to bright light exposure in the daytime and no light exposure at night but and no light exposure at night but that's only 5% 95% of it is in your that's only 5% 95% of it is in your mitochondria and to me this is the pro mitochondria and to me this is the pro this I believe this is the biggest this I believe this is the biggest benefit of using your typ of sauna is benefit of using your typ of sauna is that you're going to increase that you're going to increase subcellular might andrial melatonin subcellular might andrial melatonin which is going to radically decrease which is going to radically decrease oxidative stress lower your risk of oxidative stress lower your risk of almost every single chronic disease I almost every single chronic disease I think this this is the think this this is the mechanism maybe not the primary it can't mechanism maybe not the primary it can't be because we know traditional saers be because we know traditional saers don't do that but it's probably don't do that but it's probably partially related well actually couldn't partially related well actually couldn't be that because there you're just be that because there you're just getting heat so it's got to be the other getting heat so it's got to be the other reason but I'm convinced this is a more reason but I'm convinced this is a more powerful strategy to to optimize things powerful strategy to to optimize things because not only you getting the detox because not only you getting the detox and heat Shack protein benefits we'll and heat Shack protein benefits we'll talk about in a bit but you're getting talk about in a bit but you're getting the increase in that melatonin which is the increase in that melatonin which is going going to really improve your mitochondrial

to really improve your mitochondrial function overall increase your energy function overall increase your energy levels and ATP production and decrease levels and ATP production and decrease damage to your cells your DNA cell damage to your cells your DNA cell membranes proteins stem cells all of it membranes proteins stem cells all of it so anyway that's that's a big thing so so anyway that's that's a big thing so what's the question here the question is what's the question here the question is yours is the only Sona that does this no yours is the only Sona that does this no fire threed SAA does it and no finish fire threed SAA does it and no finish Sona does it it's it's a question of of Sona does it it's it's a question of of more bang for your buck it's it's the more bang for your buck it's it's the Dual therapies together you know uh we Dual therapies together you know uh we don't have to belabor necessarily the don't have to belabor necessarily the benefit of sauna I think Dr you've uh benefit of sauna I think Dr you've uh you Dr brola have highlighted in your in you Dr brola have highlighted in your in your latest blog article Dr Ronda your latest blog article Dr Ronda Patrick is uh has shown you know she in Patrick is uh has shown you know she in her review article the stunning benefits her review article the stunning benefits that came out last year it's essentially that came out last year it's essentially increasing your health span increases increasing your health span increases the the years of your life that you're the the years of your life that you're really healthy and it and it it reduces really healthy and it and it it reduces your risk of dying of all things so it's your risk of dying of all things so it's really great and everybody should be really great and everybody should be doing sauna but then if you look at doing sauna but then if you look at photobiomodulation which uh another way

photobiomodulation which uh another way to define photobiomodulation is the use to define photobiomodulation is the use of near infrared light to heal and of near infrared light to heal and repair uh degenerate and damaged tissue repair uh degenerate and damaged tissue and cells and also optimize healthy and cells and also optimize healthy tissue so I like that definition that's tissue so I like that definition that's good uh yeah that's a recent one I I've good uh yeah that's a recent one I I've just read from an article it's it's a just read from an article it's it's a really you know you're using light to to really you know you're using light to to heal damage and heal damage and also there near infrared light and it's also there near infrared light and it's and it's it's near infrared light uh and it's it's near infrared light uh like you said the if you look at the like you said the if you look at the spectrum of the sun um you know 43% is spectrum of the sun um you know 43% is near infrared and if you add in red uh near infrared and if you add in red uh you know it gets to be over 50% is in you know it gets to be over 50% is in this photobiomodulation range that this photobiomodulation range that photobiomodulation is light controlling photobiomodulation is light controlling biology but in this case it's it's all biology but in this case it's it's all about near fored light uh activating about near fored light uh activating healing and repair biology in the body healing and repair biology in the body and the mitochondrial systems are are and the mitochondrial systems are are amazing you know um and you mentioned amazing you know um and you mentioned the the mitochondrial melatonin systems the the mitochondrial melatonin systems melatonin is such a powerful antioxid melatonin is such a powerful antioxid uh but if you look at it kind of in the

uh but if you look at it kind of in the macro all uh it has a it has though it's macro all uh it has a it has though it's a different biological system it's a different biological system it's having similar benefit overlap to sauna having similar benefit overlap to sauna it's it's it's it's repairing damaged it's it's it's it's repairing damaged tissue it's it's improving protein tissue it's it's improving protein function it has anti-aging effects in function it has anti-aging effects in the cells uh you know in the DNA and the the cells uh you know in the DNA and the epigenetics and it's boosting and epigenetics and it's boosting and modulating the immune modulating the immune system you know people are using it for system you know people are using it for inflammation reduction also sauna for inflammation reduction also sauna for inflammation reduction so if you look at inflammation reduction so if you look at the list of photobiomodulation the list the list of photobiomodulation the list of sauna there's so much overlap um that of sauna there's so much overlap um that it's like wow these are probably the two it's like wow these are probably the two most powerful things you could do for most powerful things you could do for your health and and especially since your health and and especially since especially here in the northern uh especially here in the northern uh hemisphere in the western culture you hemisphere in the western culture you know we have the highest incidence you know we have the highest incidence you know the number one causes of death in know the number one causes of death in America are are cardiovascular disease America are are cardiovascular disease and cancer currently and and also and cancer currently and and also worldwide it's quite similar but in the worldwide it's quite similar but in the north uh in the northern hemosphere we north uh in the northern hemosphere we also have the highest incidence of of

also have the highest incidence of of neurod degenerative diseases like Ms and neurod degenerative diseases like Ms and and and Alzheimer's and Dementia and and and and Alzheimer's and Dementia and and both of these therapies this this near both of these therapies this this near for light therapy and the sauna therapy for light therapy and the sauna therapy appear to be quite beneficial uh for appear to be quite beneficial uh for neurod degenerative diseases and that neurod degenerative diseases and that was a later I think uh uh conclusion of was a later I think uh uh conclusion of that laanan study and that long-term that laanan study and that long-term finished mail study was it's not just finished mail study was it's not just good for cardiovascular disease for good for cardiovascular disease for reducing your risk of that but also reducing your risk of that but also reducing your risk of of Parkinson's reducing your risk of of Parkinson's dementia and and Alzheimer's and so dementia and and Alzheimer's and so forth so if both of these things are forth so if both of these things are doing that and if it's just a matter of doing that and if it's just a matter of the technology you use you know to heat the technology you use you know to heat the body and um and that's how that the body and um and that's how that technology is available so you know it's technology is available so you know it's just like well why would you not do just like well why would you not do sauna that way so it it comes down to sauna that way so it it comes down to the form of the light um a couple things the form of the light um a couple things to note about sunlight is uh it's not to note about sunlight is uh it's not just majority near infared and and from just majority near infared and and from a photon perspective photons per second a photon perspective photons per second perspective like I said before

perspective like I said before 70% uh of your photons per second you 70% uh of your photons per second you get from the Sun is near infrared uh get from the Sun is near infrared uh it's also uh not so much far infrared if it's also uh not so much far infrared if you look at the Spectrum of the sun it's you look at the Spectrum of the sun it's only about 3% far infared so uh we don't only about 3% far infared so uh we don't have much historical exposure to it and have much historical exposure to it and one could argue maybe from an one could argue maybe from an evolutionary perspective that's why our evolutionary perspective that's why our mitochondria have not evolved to harness mitochondria have not evolved to harness that they're they're designed to harness that they're they're designed to harness the number one stimulus the number one stimulus which is the near infrared portion and which is the near infrared portion and and again on the other side of the and again on the other side of the spectrum like you said the there the spectrum like you said the there the benefit of of of dose dependent benefit of of of dose dependent ultraviolet light exposure for vitamin D ultraviolet light exposure for vitamin D production is is great but that's still production is is great but that's still a a minority of the dose you get from a a minority of the dose you get from the Sun the the biggest dose is near the Sun the the biggest dose is near infrared and and it's uh it's it's um infrared and and it's uh it's it's um among other things you know refilling among other things you know refilling daily your antioxidant reserves in your daily your antioxidant reserves in your body to to to do a cell turnover and

body to to to do a cell turnover and repair and just all the things our repair and just all the things our bodies are so so complicated they're bodies are so so complicated they're constantly uh needing to fix themselves constantly uh needing to fix themselves and and correct themselves otherwise and and correct themselves otherwise they get out of whack really quickly and they get out of whack really quickly and so uh it's just like well why would you so uh it's just like well why would you not do the two together and also I would not do the two together and also I would say well people say well I get a lot of say well people say well I get a lot of sunlight I live in sunlight I live in Florida I I don't need a sauna I don't Florida I I don't need a sauna I don't need a sauna space you know I don't need need a sauna space you know I don't need photobiomodulation because I'm in the photobiomodulation because I'm in the Sun every day but they're closed and Sun every day but they're closed and also the Sun and all the photobi the also the Sun and all the photobi the world photobiomodulation in the world world photobiomodulation in the world doesn't uh sort of address some of these doesn't uh sort of address some of these aspects of heat shock protein aspects of heat shock protein amplification and detox that sauna does amplification and detox that sauna does and we live in this modern toxic world and we live in this modern toxic world that it's a title you know a veritable that it's a title you know a veritable tidal way of toxicity it's more than tidal way of toxicity it's more than ever that we need sauna and because we ever that we need sauna and because we live indoors in these weird synthetic live indoors in these weird synthetic Lifestyles it's more than ever that we Lifestyles it's more than ever that we need uh maybe an alternative Source uh need uh maybe an alternative Source uh for a daily dose of near infed light and

for a daily dose of near infed light and so that's where the incandescent bulb so that's where the incandescent bulb style of s becomes such a a p a powerful style of s becomes such a a p a powerful contributor to maintaining uh our health contributor to maintaining uh our health in this weird modern lifestyle that we in this weird modern lifestyle that we have that's totally unnatural yeah so have that's totally unnatural yeah so before before I go into one of the crit before before I go into one of the crit criticisms that have been leveled at criticisms that have been leveled at your sauna strategy I want to make your sauna strategy I want to make insert a note about melatonin nect to insert a note about melatonin nect to mentioned earlier and that is that it's mentioned earlier and that is that it's about about a billion and a half years about about a billion and a half years old that's what the speculation is and old that's what the speculation is and it's first evolved in Plants it it it it's first evolved in Plants it it it you you can make a fairly convincing and you you can make a fairly convincing and valid argument that is the most valid argument that is the most important antioxidant in our body important antioxidant in our body because not only he directly scavenges because not only he directly scavenges free rad radicals but it also like free rad radicals but it also like molecular hydrogen catalyzes the molecular hydrogen catalyzes the production of other antioxidants like production of other antioxidants like glutathion peroxidase glutathion glutathion peroxidase glutathion reductase catalase superoxide dismutase reductase catalase superoxide dismutase so these are all quenched of oxidated so these are all quenched of oxidated free radical so and even some of the

free radical so and even some of the nitrogen ones like peroxy nitrite so nitrogen ones like peroxy nitrite so really really important but one of the really really important but one of the criticisms that have been level we we criticisms that have been level we we talked about at sa space is talked about at sa space is that that uh it's sometime I think you your bulbs uh it's sometime I think you your bulbs have been your setups at least I did in have been your setups at least I did in the past and I think others have too the past and I think others have too referred to it as a near infrared Sonet referred to it as a near infrared Sonet when reality is it isn't a near infrared when reality is it isn't a near infrared it's a mid infrared sauna so the and it's a mid infrared sauna so the and correct me if I'm wrong but I think % of correct me if I'm wrong but I think % of the radiation coming up from those bulbs the radiation coming up from those bulbs that you have are near infrared it's that you have are near infrared it's only 15 as opposed to 40% well it is only 15 as opposed to 40% well it is more than that it's actually so but it's more than that it's actually so but it's definitely not the same as the Sun so definitely not the same as the Sun so yes let me clarify what the spectrum is yes let me clarify what the spectrum is give us the detail so and this is on on give us the detail so and this is on on my website in our learn section you can my website in our learn section you can see the spectrum of our bulb and compare see the spectrum of our bulb and compare it to the Sun Spectrum so the Sun as I it to the Sun Spectrum so the Sun as I said before is about 43% pure near said before is about 43% pure near infrared that's 700 to, 1500 nanometer infrared that's 700 to, 1500 nanometer wavelengths okay the this thermalite wavelengths okay the this thermalite bulb that I've developed this this large

bulb that I've developed this this large 250 watt um incandescent um heat 250 watt um incandescent um heat lample is 39% near infared so it's a lample is 39% near infared so it's a very similar amount of near infrared how very similar amount of near infrared how did I not know that that's great this is did I not know that that's great this is it's more near infrared than the the it's more near infrared than the the standard heat lamp you have at this you standard heat lamp you have at this you know that's more commonly available so I know that's more commonly available so I I basically tune the filament Dr mola to I basically tune the filament Dr mola to run at a higher Kelvin so it does it run at a higher Kelvin so it does it does shift it up a little bit into more does shift it up a little bit into more near for but it's not the same as the near for but it's not the same as the sun because the sun has a lot of like sun because the sun has a lot of like you said the a huge chunk of the sun's you said the a huge chunk of the sun's emission is near is uh visible light an emission is near is uh visible light an ultraviolet light and the the difference ultraviolet light and the the difference is with this uh the thermalite bulb that is with this uh the thermalite bulb that I've developed that saunaspace uses I've developed that saunaspace uses there's no blue light no ultraviolet there's no blue light no ultraviolet light and there's not a lot of red light light and there's not a lot of red light either it's all pretty much near either it's all pretty much near infrared and midinfrared and so the the infrared and midinfrared and so the the where the sun has a lot of visible light where the sun has a lot of visible light and ultraviolet light that percentage of and ultraviolet light that percentage of the spectrum with the with the saunas

the spectrum with the with the saunas space thermalite bulb is shifted into space thermalite bulb is shifted into near infrared and mid infrared okay so near infrared and mid infrared okay so it's actually it is fair to call it a it's actually it is fair to call it a Min infared bulb as well because it's Min infared bulb as well because it's it's it's about 40% near infrared 40% it's it's about 40% near infrared 40% mid infared okay I didn't know so it's mid infared okay I didn't know so it's about the same so it's about it's about about the same so it's about it's about the same and then there's about 15% far the same and then there's about 15% far infared okay so it's but all infrared infared okay so it's but all infrared and it's it's interesting I I think it's and it's it's interesting I I think it's uh even better in a sense uh even better in a sense for heating the body for sauna benefit for heating the body for sauna benefit than the sun because the the radiant than the sun because the the radiant heat heat benefits um uh come from the body benefits um uh come from the body absorbing light through the water absorbing light through the water absorption and water absorption starts absorption and water absorption starts in near infrared at 980 nanometers at in near infrared at 980 nanometers at the first overtone of water but then uh the first overtone of water but then uh um increases very quickly so that once um increases very quickly so that once you're into the mid infrared Spectrum you're into the mid infrared Spectrum 1500 to 3,000 nanometers or so you're 1500 to 3,000 nanometers or so you're getting strong water absorption and so getting strong water absorption and so that's a really effective way to

that's a really effective way to radiantly heat the body so that's more radiantly heat the body so that's more midinfrared than you get from the Sun midinfrared than you get from the Sun okay and also I mean fered also can heat okay and also I mean fered also can heat the body it's just not a it's not a deep the body it's just not a it's not a deep penetration because the of the let's go penetration because the of the let's go into that now because that's huge uh so into that now because that's huge uh so I think far infrared from my I think far infrared from my understanding is just a few millimeters understanding is just a few millimeters depth penetration so and this is another depth penetration so and this is another false claim that most off fire rest they false claim that most off fire rest they they they want to convince you that it they they want to convince you that it goes deep into the body but no that's goes deep into the body but no that's near infrared that goes deep to to like near infrared that goes deep to to like maybe a few inches deep into your body maybe a few inches deep into your body yeah and that and that it's complicated yeah and that and that it's complicated this the the biology of it's called wi this the the biology of it's called wi absorption but you know you know uh you absorption but you know you know uh you know how we mentioned that incandescent know how we mentioned that incandescent technology is30 years old uh uh in in technology is30 years old uh uh in in agriculture Farmers understood this for agriculture Farmers understood this for over a hundred years then and you can over a hundred years then and you can see old and you can see Old Phillips see old and you can see Old Phillips heat lamp bulb product specification heat lamp bulb product specification sheets that have a little uh tissue

sheets that have a little uh tissue penetration chart where they show yes uh penetration chart where they show yes uh infrared a AKA near infrared is much infrared a AKA near infrared is much better for heating biological tissue better for heating biological tissue because of tissue penetration and that's because of tissue penetration and that's because near because near infrared uh that's because water begins infrared uh that's because water begins to absorb light in in the near infrared to absorb light in in the near infrared region but not 100% as you proceed into region but not 100% as you proceed into the mid infrared and the far infared the mid infrared and the far infared water absorption increases that's one of water absorption increases that's one of the protective mechanisms of our body is the protective mechanisms of our body is is the chromophor that is water it it it is the chromophor that is water it it it it um and so it absorbs this light in it um and so it absorbs this light in different different ways near infed different different ways near infed light tends to penetrate several inches light tends to penetrate several inches into the body there's actually one NASA into the body there's actually one NASA study that showed that water filtered study that showed that water filtered near infrared penetrated like a near infrared penetrated like a ridiculous amount like 20 centimeters ridiculous amount like 20 centimeters into the body you know five or six or into the body you know five or six or seven inches but on average it's several seven inches but on average it's several inch penetration once you get out to inch penetration once you get out to this long wavelength low energy infrared this long wavelength low energy infrared called Farm red which starts at about called Farm red which starts at about 3,000 and greater nanometers the tissue

3,000 and greater nanometers the tissue penetration is is a is a fraction of an penetration is is a is a fraction of an inch it's a it's a millimeter or two a inch it's a it's a millimeter or two a few millimeters and we're talking about few millimeters and we're talking about the average photons that go into the the average photons that go into the body so with near infrared uh on average body so with near infrared uh on average there's some photons that you know are there's some photons that you know are absorbed by water in the skin but then absorbed by water in the skin but then others go in and get absorbed by water others go in and get absorbed by water in in the liver you know deep in the in in the liver you know deep in the body and then others of course hit the body and then others of course hit the mitochondrial light receptor protein and mitochondrial light receptor protein and activate photobiomodulation so uh every activate photobiomodulation so uh every second that you're exposed to millions second that you're exposed to millions of near infrared photons you're getting of near infrared photons you're getting a radiant deeper penetrating heat that a radiant deeper penetrating heat that heats you from within and raises core heats you from within and raises core body temperature more quickly because body temperature more quickly because you're not just relying on the hot air you're not just relying on the hot air around you and that's what I've said for around you and that's what I've said for many many years uh uh basically since many many years uh uh basically since the beginning the most efficient way to the beginning the most efficient way to the most effective way to heat the most effective way to heat biological tissue is using a near biological tissue is using a near infrared Centric light source uh in infrared Centric light source uh in terms of using light to heat the body terms of using light to heat the body and using light to heat the body via and using light to heat the body via radiant heating will always be more radiant heating will always be more efficient than efficient than than using just hot air or or or contact

than using just hot air or or or contact with water like a hot tub or or a bath with water like a hot tub or or a bath yeah you're the Harvey kog of the 21st yeah you're the Harvey kog of the 21st century I hope I'm not that crazy well century I hope I'm not that crazy well yeah well at least what expects to light yeah well at least what expects to light therapy and that that uh art the book therapy and that that uh art the book that he wrote is freely available you that he wrote is freely available you just have to type in the name of it on C just have to type in the name of it on C your favorite surgery certainly not your favorite surgery certainly not Google and then because it was written Google and then because it was written prior to 1921 it's freely available prior to 1921 it's freely available there's no copyright protection so there's no copyright protection so um um the where was I going with this well I the where was I going with this well I just we're just wrapping up the just we're just wrapping up the photobiomodulation discussion I would photobiomodulation discussion I would just say you know you don't get just say you know you don't get photobiomodulation from far infrared photobiomodulation from far infrared wavelengths period there's no photoi wavelengths period there's no photoi modulation effect so sure none it's zero modulation effect so sure none it's zero zero not biologically significant put it zero not biologically significant put it that way it may be fraction of a percent that way it may be fraction of a percent but it's biologically there there's also but it's biologically there there's also but with all wavelengths of light and but with all wavelengths of light and this is another benefit that you know I this is another benefit that you know I don't know it's kind of like EMF don't know it's kind of like EMF protection it's less well understood and

protection it's less well understood and less well researched nowadays but this less well researched nowadays but this idea of structuring water in the body idea of structuring water in the body and making it more bioavailable putting and making it more bioavailable putting it into a more bioactive State all it into a more bioactive State all wavelengths of of of light do this but wavelengths of of of light do this but Dr Gerald Pollock would say and I Dr Gerald Pollock would say and I actually heard him on a podcast recently actually heard him on a podcast recently mentioning in this that the best light mentioning in this that the best light uh is near INF fored because that's the uh is near INF fored because that's the only light that penetrates bone tissue only light that penetrates bone tissue if you're talking about structuring if you're talking about structuring water and having these water and having these photobiomodulation benefits in the brain photobiomodulation benefits in the brain that's protected by the thickest bone that's protected by the thickest bone tissue in the body it's only a near tissue in the body it's only a near infrared Photon that is is addressing infrared Photon that is is addressing and and reaching that tissue to activate and and reaching that tissue to activate these these healing systems yeah and these these healing systems yeah and that's why when people ask me or discuss that's why when people ask me or discuss this my views on structured water I this my views on structured water I think it's great and if you want to think it's great and if you want to drink it that's fine but it's nothing drink it that's fine but it's nothing nothing in comparison to having your nothing in comparison to having your body make its own structured water and body make its own structured water and this happens naturally when you expose this happens naturally when you expose your skin to near infrared that's the your skin to near infrared that's the ultimate way to do it and structure ultimate way to do it and structure water is important because it puts water is important because it puts energy into your body that is

energy into your body that is transferred to do biological processes transferred to do biological processes like the simple measure of your red like the simple measure of your red blood cells which are larger than TP blood cells which are larger than TP your typical capillary they have to your typical capillary they have to squeeze through there and certainly the squeeze through there and certainly the pressure generated from your heart pressure generated from your heart pulsing is or pumping is not going to be pulsing is or pumping is not going to be sufficient Force to get it through there sufficient Force to get it through there it's done through the the energy that's it's done through the the energy that's contained in structured water yeah we're contained in structured water yeah we're we're we're like 70% Water by weight but we're we're like 70% Water by weight but we're over 99 or 95% water we're over 99 or 95% water volumetrically it it just permeates all volumetrically it it just permeates all of our body so you you to not have that of our body so you you to not have that part of our body working optimally is is part of our body working optimally is is definitely you know to our detriment definitely you know to our detriment yeah and I wanted just I recall what I yeah and I wanted just I recall what I was was wanted to share is that a was was wanted to share is that a personal experience and anyone could personal experience and anyone could have this experience if they engage in have this experience if they engage in uh a near infrared sauna is that it you uh a near infrared sauna is that it you can go into the sauna and your current can go into the sauna and your current model I believe doesn't have an analog model I believe doesn't have an analog thermometer in it so you can pick one up thermometer in it so you can pick one up for $10 it has to go up to at least 200 for $10 it has to go up to at least 200 degrees or so uh but you can go into the

degrees or so uh but you can go into the sa and see the temperature is like sa and see the temperature is like 16070 and you 16070 and you could there's a there's a there's a heat could there's a there's a there's a heat Source it's the bulbs and if you're Source it's the bulbs and if you're facing the bulbs the front of your body facing the bulbs the front of your body your chest and your you know the front your chest and your you know the front of your body will start to sweat of your body will start to sweat literally within a minute to it the most literally within a minute to it the most at that temperature and the well the at that temperature and the well the back your back is absolutely absolutely back your back is absolutely absolutely not sweating which is a strong clinical not sweating which is a strong clinical confirmation supporting the fact that confirmation supporting the fact that that heat is going in inches into your that heat is going in inches into your body and being absorbed by your body body and being absorbed by your body because it's not the ambient temperature because it's not the ambient temperature that's causing it's the heat from the that's causing it's the heat from the sauna and I guess so that's anyone can sauna and I guess so that's anyone can prove this to themselves I mean this is prove this to themselves I mean this is not rocket science so I'm wondering from not rocket science so I'm wondering from your perspective if you have a feeling your perspective if you have a feeling or an impression as to what the or an impression as to what the difference is because you know I don't difference is because you know I don't recommend people going much above 160 in recommend people going much above 160 in near infrared sauna you can but I don't

near infrared sauna you can but I don't think it's necessary because of this think it's necessary because of this fact so you know because some people are fact so you know because some people are saying 180 to 200 degrees in a maybe saying 180 to 200 degrees in a maybe even higher in in a finish type even higher in in a finish type SAA uh what do you think the diff the SAA uh what do you think the diff the additional temperature difference is in additional temperature difference is in a in a near infrared compared to finish a in a near infrared compared to finish SAA I mean is it 20 30 degrees it's it's SAA I mean is it 20 30 degrees it's it's it's it's it's hard to compare the two it's it's it's hard to compare the two side by side uh because of the radiant side by side uh because of the radiant heat uh you know the the radiant heating heat uh you know the the radiant heating um methodology of the near fored SAA of um methodology of the near fored SAA of the of the incandesent bulb sauna is the of the incandesent bulb sauna is such that you don't use the Ambient Air such that you don't use the Ambient Air Temperature to heat you up really you're Temperature to heat you up really you're using this penetrating light it's really using this penetrating light it's really but but you're still getting it though but but you're still getting it though you're still getting the benefit of the you're still getting the benefit of the ambient heat you are you are and and so ambient heat you are you are and and so I I've always said you need to have the I I've always said you need to have the ambient air be above body temperature so ambient air be above body temperature so the air is not cooling you down you know the air is not cooling you down you know it's you need to be an enclosed space of it's you need to be an enclosed space of some kind you can't just have the panel some kind you can't just have the panel in the middle of your room uh that's you in the middle of your room uh that's you know air conditioned to 70° uh and and

know air conditioned to 70° uh and and provoke a sweat you need to have the air provoke a sweat you need to have the air above 100 degrees but if you do that you above 100 degrees but if you do that you remove the air as a cooling force and remove the air as a cooling force and then you can sit in front of this then you can sit in front of this effective radiant near Fred Heating and effective radiant near Fred Heating and heat up the body uh very very heat up the body uh very very effectively and this is you know this is effectively and this is you know this is one of the criticisms that's uh you know one of the criticisms that's uh you know out there that's leveled at sauna space out there that's leveled at sauna space in general I believe Ari RIT Ari Whitten in general I believe Ari RIT Ari Whitten who you um who you quoted in your who you um who you quoted in your article mentions this um and this is a article mentions this um and this is a misunderstanding that I think exists out misunderstanding that I think exists out there because it's not an apal to Apples there because it's not an apal to Apples comparison with finish saunas finish comparison with finish saunas finish saunas require the air to be really hot saunas require the air to be really hot because they're only using the air to because they're only using the air to heat the body near infrared saas that heat the body near infrared saas that are using incandescent bulbs use radiant are using incandescent bulbs use radiant more efficient heat to heat the body so more efficient heat to heat the body so even at a much lower Ambient Air even at a much lower Ambient Air Temperature um you can provoke a strong Temperature um you can provoke a strong sweat and provoke a elevated core body sweat and provoke a elevated core body temperature increase and I would argue temperature increase and I would argue that in some ways maybe that's a a more

that in some ways maybe that's a a more prudent approach for anyone who has any prudent approach for anyone who has any sort of health issues of any kind sort of health issues of any kind there's a lot of people that and that's there's a lot of people that and that's pretty well understood I think Dr Ronda pretty well understood I think Dr Ronda Patrick mentions that in her article Patrick mentions that in her article that if you're not acclimated to the that if you're not acclimated to the sauna or you have a neurodegenerative sauna or you have a neurodegenerative condition or any health condition of any condition or any health condition of any kind or for whatever reason you're not kind or for whatever reason you're not like you and I are Dr marola where we're like you and I are Dr marola where we're healthy we're maintaining a healthy healthy we're maintaining a healthy lifestyle we're acclimated to sauna you lifestyle we're acclimated to sauna you can't even handle a finished sauna uh can't even handle a finished sauna uh and and uh and so for uh for what it's and and uh and so for uh for what it's worth uh I think the near fored sauna worth uh I think the near fored sauna provides a much more tolerable provides a much more tolerable accessible experience that still accessible experience that still achieves what you want to achieve and by achieves what you want to achieve and by that I mean do you sweat and do you that I mean do you sweat and do you elevate your core body temperature me elevate your core body temperature me personally I get into my sauna cold I personally I get into my sauna cold I don't preheat it and I only use the four don't preheat it and I only use the four bulb Faraday sauna so I have four bulbs bulb Faraday sauna so I have four bulbs and um I I usually lose one to two and um I I usually lose one to two pounds of water in about 25 minutes in pounds of water in about 25 minutes in 28 to 30 minutes I lose two pounds of

28 to 30 minutes I lose two pounds of water in in about 15 to 18 minutes I I water in in about 15 to 18 minutes I I elevate my core body temperature uh by elevate my core body temperature uh by three degrees or so and then I start to three degrees or so and then I start to sweat and then I remain in there another sweat and then I remain in there another five or 10 minutes and I try to reach five or 10 minutes and I try to reach that sort of state of subjective that sort of state of subjective exhaustion that is sort of the goal of exhaustion that is sort of the goal of sauna the the goal of sauna is not just sauna the the goal of sauna is not just to be in a hot room uh it's it's to to be in a hot room uh it's it's to sweat and to elevate Cor body sweat and to elevate Cor body temperature and get that that body temperature and get that that body response so that's why there's people response so that's why there's people look at the Finish they look at the pro look at the Finish they look at the pro predominant body of research into sauna predominant body of research into sauna and it's predominantly on healthy men and it's predominantly on healthy men and women using finish saunas that are and women using finish saunas that are heated to 170 degrees but there are heated to 170 degrees but there are other there's are a lot of other other there's are a lot of other research out there that supports the use research out there that supports the use of infrared saas in general there's the of infrared saas in general there's the WAN Therapies in Japan there's these WAN Therapies in Japan there's these sauna suits even that are kind of funny sauna suits even that are kind of funny looking and there's a really good looking and there's a really good cardiovascular and thermal regulatory uh cardiovascular and thermal regulatory uh outcome benefits to using these what outcome benefits to using these what look really silly these saos suits so

look really silly these saos suits so this stuff works it's just a question of this stuff works it's just a question of uh how long does the person need or or uh how long does the person need or or or you know uh each person and and or you know uh each person and and depending on the person's uh individual depending on the person's uh individual health profile and the modality of of health profile and the modality of of heat therapy they're using uh how long heat therapy they're using uh how long that they need to sit there to to that they need to sit there to to elevate core body temperature 3 degrees elevate core body temperature 3 degrees to lose the average one pound of sweat to lose the average one pound of sweat that you lose in a finish Sao session is that you lose in a finish Sao session is really quite subjective so for me in my really quite subjective so for me in my sauna it's it's 25 to 28 minutes and so sauna it's it's 25 to 28 minutes and so for someone who's you know really uh is for someone who's you know really uh is really healthy really well acclimated really healthy really well acclimated the sauna they can handle these you know the sauna they can handle these you know maybe more bulbs maybe an extra panel uh maybe more bulbs maybe an extra panel uh but there's there's others like Dr but there's there's others like Dr Wall's community of the MS uh Dr Ken Wall's community of the MS uh Dr Ken charlin a neuro uh a a neurod charlin a neuro uh a a neurod degenerative disease expert he's degenerative disease expert he's actually based here in Missouri um he's actually based here in Missouri um he's dealing with people and and frankly my dealing with people and and frankly my customer base is it's usually people customer base is it's usually people come to sauna space and they have a

come to sauna space and they have a health problem they're not coming from a health problem they're not coming from a state where they've solved everything state where they've solved everything and they're they have amazing discipline and they're they have amazing discipline like you and like you and I well that's a good point uh and I I I well that's a good point uh and I I really want to dive into that because really want to dive into that because it's you're you're correct that's it's you're you're correct that's probably the biggest criticism that's probably the biggest criticism that's been hurled at your company is that you been hurled at your company is that you don't get hot enough and um but actually don't get hot enough and um but actually I think because they're not integrating I think because they're not integrating the radiant the radiant uh heat component into their evaluation uh heat component into their evaluation and Analysis I think they're missing the and Analysis I think they're missing the boat and probably the not getting hot boat and probably the not getting hot enough could more accurately be hurled enough could more accurately be hurled at the vast majority of far infrared at the vast majority of far infrared sonas that rarely go above 140 I mean sonas that rarely go above 140 I mean there's some that go higher but not many there's some that go higher but not many and some of them only get to 110 120 and some of them only get to 110 120 right the the average F fored SAA is right the the average F fored SAA is about 140 degrees and if you talk to about 140 degrees and if you talk to people who use it they they usually people who use it they they usually state that it takes them 40 minutes to state that it takes them 40 minutes to an hour to sweat or more and then that's

an hour to sweat or more and then that's after preheating for a significant after preheating for a significant amount of time beforeand yeah and with amount of time beforeand yeah and with no photobiomodulation with no photob no no photobiomodulation with no photob no no benefits like so you can make you no benefits like so you can make you know it just occurred to me as you were know it just occurred to me as you were describing your process that that is a describing your process that that is a pretty good way to to do SAA because pretty good way to to do SAA because you're doing it gently but more you're doing it gently but more importantly while your body's building importantly while your body's building up this heat response so that it can up this heat response so that it can generate the heat shock proteins which generate the heat shock proteins which actually modulate the repair and actually modulate the repair and modification of your damaged proteins modification of your damaged proteins that can lead to neurod generative that can lead to neurod generative conditions like you mentioned like conditions like you mentioned like Alzheimer's so that you really do want Alzheimer's so that you really do want to generate the heat shock protein to generate the heat shock protein response and if you're if you're not in response and if you're if you're not in hot enough environment you won't do that hot enough environment you won't do that so that's you know you know my guess is so that's you know you know my guess is that the vast majority of f for on is that the vast majority of f for on is you're not getting hot enough you're you're not getting hot enough you're just simply or you got to stay in there just simply or you got to stay in there way too long and plus no way too long and plus no photobiomodulation benefits but but photobiomodulation benefits but but ultimately you outlined very accurately ultimately you outlined very accurately the two clinical criteria because

the two clinical criteria because there's a wide variability in response there's a wide variability in response to this so ultimately it's your personal to this so ultimately it's your personal individualize response to accounts and individualize response to accounts and the simplest way is to measure you know the simplest way is to measure you know people probably wondering how you people probably wondering how you measured a pound or two well it's pretty measured a pound or two well it's pretty simple actually all you do is measure simple actually all you do is measure your naked weight before you go into the your naked weight before you go into the sauna and measure the naked weight after sauna and measure the naked weight after you get out of the sauna and then the you get out of the sauna and then the difference is what the what you lost is difference is what the what you lost is water yep it's a very simple gauge that water yep it's a very simple gauge that anyone can do at home they don't need a anyone can do at home they don't need a yeah lab or a clinic well you need a lab yeah lab or a clinic well you need a lab I mean you need a a scale an accurate I mean you need a a scale an accurate scale need a scale but the the the the scale need a scale but the the the the presume and I'm not a healthcare presume and I'm not a healthcare provider you know I that's that's what's provider you know I that's that's what's that's what we have you for and others that's what we have you for and others out there in the industry but for me I I out there in the industry but for me I I I like to know that what I'm doing works I like to know that what I'm doing works and yes and so and I like to have the and yes and so and I like to have the tools to do it myself so measuring the tools to do it myself so measuring the weight loss and then measuring the core weight loss and then measuring the core body temperature using different body temperature using different thermometers are out there and there's thermometers are out there and there's definitely variability between the definitely variability between the armpit and and the mouth temperature and armpit and and the mouth temperature and infrared thermometers versus others but infrared thermometers versus others but you get a sense of elevated core

you get a sense of elevated core temperature uh as you continue to you temperature uh as you continue to you know continue to measure this and gauge know continue to measure this and gauge your sauna sessions as you as you as you your sauna sessions as you as you as you start using sauna if you're new to sauna start using sauna if you're new to sauna and you'll see that you're getting the and you'll see that you're getting the El when you get about a three degree El when you get about a three degree temperature increase that's when the temperature increase that's when the body begins to sweat strongly and then body begins to sweat strongly and then if you can kind of and again if you can kind of and again subjectively and cautiously watching subjectively and cautiously watching yourself if you can reach that point of yourself if you can reach that point of subjective exhaustion what uh is this subjective exhaustion what uh is this referred to is the DOR uh dorphin referred to is the DOR uh dorphin response where you kind of feel response where you kind of feel uncomfortable uh that's actually what uncomfortable uh that's actually what you kind of want to go for because that you kind of want to go for because that is when you've you've kind of maxed out is when you've you've kind of maxed out your benefits of this orenic stress your benefits of this orenic stress therapy and you haven't taken it too far therapy and you haven't taken it too far and you get the Ben the Endorphin and you get the Ben the Endorphin benefits afterwards and all the benefits benefits afterwards and all the benefits you get and and and it can be uh if you you get and and and it can be uh if you have your if you have a you know if have your if you have a you know if you're well ACC made to the sa that will you're well ACC made to the sa that will take you longer to get there but if you take you longer to get there but if you are dealing with health conditions and

are dealing with health conditions and maybe neurod degenerative issues I have maybe neurod degenerative issues I have some customers Dr mcole Who start out some customers Dr mcole Who start out with two bulbs and they're only using with two bulbs and they're only using two bulbs and and they're only sitting two bulbs and and they're only sitting there for five or 10 minutes and they there for five or 10 minutes and they just and they've been contraindicated uh just and they've been contraindicated uh to get heat exposure to their head to get heat exposure to their head initially and they may take six months initially and they may take six months to build up to using the sauna as as or to build up to using the sauna as as or more even as using the sauna as you and more even as using the sauna as you and I would use the sauna so yeah there's no I would use the sauna so yeah there's no nothing wrong with that that's it's nothing wrong with that that's it's better safe than sorry go slowly if you better safe than sorry go slowly if you need to there's not anything wrong with need to there's not anything wrong with that process yeah and so and so yeah you that process yeah and so and so yeah you can measure it yourself and then you can measure it yourself and then you know if you're getting the sweat know if you're getting the sweat response and you're getting the elevator response and you're getting the elevator core body temperature you've had a good core body temperature you've had a good solid sauna session and you know that if solid sauna session and you know that if you just do that one to four times a you just do that one to four times a week you're going to get these benefits week you're going to get these benefits that you read about all everybody's that you read about all everybody's talking about in the literature and of talking about in the literature and of course you can do lab testing to further course you can do lab testing to further buttress your your you know your buttress your your you know your appreciation of your results and U I appreciation of your results and U I don't know what you recommend um what

don't know what you recommend um what kind of you recommend it probably isn't kind of you recommend it probably isn't the most accurate because it's blood the most accurate because it's blood levels but the goova Diagnostics has a levels but the goova Diagnostics has a test called neutraal that I'm test called neutraal that I'm particularly fond of it's not a cheap particularly fond of it's not a cheap test but it it is provide so much test but it it is provide so much benefits it actually shows you your benefits it actually shows you your linolic acid too content but uh when I linolic acid too content but uh when I had mine done recently it it was it it had mine done recently it it was it it rates it subjectively from a zero to a rates it subjectively from a zero to a 10 and it was a zero and the health care 10 and it was a zero and the health care practitioner that was doing the test for practitioner that was doing the test for me said she's just she never saw a zero me said she's just she never saw a zero before I got the first zero so measures before I got the first zero so measures Mercury arsenic lead and cadmium I think Mercury arsenic lead and cadmium I think levels so U anyway because because of levels so U anyway because because of the criticisms of the the temp the the criticisms of the the temp the temperature being insufficient you were temperature being insufficient you were kind enough to kind enough to uh not acknowledge but uh consent uh not acknowledge but uh consent to creating a a different an advanced to creating a a different an advanced type of sauna that has two sets of bulbs type of sauna that has two sets of bulbs um two two basically four panels bulbs

um two two basically four panels bulbs that I'm using in my existing Zona now that I'm using in my existing Zona now and you're you right before I went on and you're you right before I went on you talked about a new panel you just you talked about a new panel you just you're going to resurrect it has three you're going to resurrect it has three bulbs which essentially allows it to be bulbs which essentially allows it to be used in almost any home circuit because used in almost any home circuit because it's under 15 amps um but the I did it's under 15 amps um but the I did notice a big difference when I do do I notice a big difference when I do do I it's actually my preference but so it's actually my preference but so that's to in my mind it after you're that's to in my mind it after you're sharing all this it's pretty clear that sharing all this it's pretty clear that the vast majority of people may only the vast majority of people may only need four bulbs and it really I mean you need four bulbs and it really I mean you could do an eight bulb system yet you could do an eight bulb system yet you don't you still continue use to four uh don't you still continue use to four uh and and you just need to be in the sa and and you just need to be in the sa longer longer downside you're getting longer longer downside you're getting more photo photo biomodulation benefit more photo photo biomodulation benefit now admittedly there's a basic response now admittedly there's a basic response and you can overdo the infrared exposure and you can overdo the infrared exposure right but I but I personally live in right but I but I personally live in that modern lifestyle where I don't get that modern lifestyle where I don't get as much sun as you I'm working a lot as much sun as you I'm working a lot indoors in the in the in the shop here indoors in the in the in the shop here and just a lot lot of indoor activity I and just a lot lot of indoor activity I don't have an ideal uh light diet with don't have an ideal uh light diet with regard to daily you know morning and

regard to daily you know morning and evening sun exposure so for me it's evening sun exposure so for me it's crucial that modulation I crucial that modulation I get not different much different than get not different much different than much of your customer base so I think much of your customer base so I think that you can make a pretty strong that you can make a pretty strong argument that a four ballb system is all argument that a four ballb system is all that's needed um but if you really want that's needed um but if you really want to go the full the full monty I think to go the full the full monty I think it's like seven or eight bulb system it's like seven or eight bulb system will will really get the temperature up will will really get the temperature up and and I'm wondering you mentioned your and and I'm wondering you mentioned your temperature goes up 3 degrees what your temperature goes up 3 degrees what your what the absolute value because I think what the absolute value because I think mine goes up four or five degrees mine goes up four or five degrees typically closer to five because I'm typically closer to five because I'm typically coming in the High typically coming in the High 102s um it just depends on how long I 102s um it just depends on how long I stand I usually get three degree stand I usually get three degree increase after about 16 or 18 minutes increase after about 16 or 18 minutes but by the time I'm done I'm getting up but by the time I'm done I'm getting up to you know over four degrees sometimes to you know over four degrees sometimes five what's your FAL the temperatures five what's your FAL the temperatures coming out with um you're doing oral I coming out with um you're doing oral I would assume right yeah oral I've tried would assume right yeah oral I've tried those infrared thermometers on the head those infrared thermometers on the head and the they seem unreliable I infrared

and the they seem unreliable I infrared temp senses are great but not really for temp senses are great but not really for taking your body temperature is my taking your body temperature is my experience I agree but I usually get experience I agree but I usually get over 102 degrees uh somewhere over 102 over 102 degrees uh somewhere over 102 which is about for me is I I don't think which is about for me is I I don't think I don't think you want to go over 103 I I don't think you want to go over 103 I mean occasionally we'll hit the low 103s mean occasionally we'll hit the low 103s but typ I it's it's a matter of it's a but typ I it's it's a matter of it's a matter of discip discipline and matter of discip discipline and acclimation you know in the beginning acclimation you know in the beginning you don't want to do that you don't want you don't want to do that you don't want to overdo it but but and and that's why to overdo it but but and and that's why I recommend you know everybody just go I recommend you know everybody just go with the you know what we do now our with the you know what we do now our four bulb system and and you build up four bulb system and and you build up and you acclimate and you and then you and you acclimate and you and then you start to that has a positive influence start to that has a positive influence on other areas of your life and you on other areas of your life and you correct your diet and you do these other correct your diet and you do these other things and you slowly get to a point things and you slowly get to a point where yeah I can stay in longer now I where yeah I can stay in longer now I can handle more and that's great but I can handle more and that's great but I would urge everybody to just take a would urge everybody to just take a really precautionary prudent approach really precautionary prudent approach and and start out with that and and and and start out with that and and that's why you know I've always offered that's why you know I've always offered a long trial for our product and for a long trial for our product and for some people who are in the in the that

some people who are in the in the that have health conditions or have health conditions or neurodegenerative issues they may take a neurodegenerative issues they may take a long time to appreciate wow wow um you long time to appreciate wow wow um you know a month or two even to appreciate know a month or two even to appreciate and other people who are maybe young uh and other people who are maybe young uh are are physically fit do a lot of uh are are physically fit do a lot of uh exercise a healthy lifestyle you know exercise a healthy lifestyle you know they'll be able to handle more more they'll be able to handle more more quickly but eventually you know those quickly but eventually you know those who reach a a a level of like you have who reach a a a level of like you have where you're you're a super healthy guy where you're you're a super healthy guy you're working out every day you've used you're working out every day you've used the sauna for years you know you can the sauna for years you know you can take it you can potentially uh increase take it you can potentially uh increase the number of bulbs uh and that's why uh the number of bulbs uh and that's why uh like like you mentioned I we are we're like like you mentioned I we are we're we're resurrecting we're printing it out we're resurrecting we're printing it out of the closet the the very first SAA of the closet the the very first SAA space panel was a three Bowl panel that space panel was a three Bowl panel that we offered back in 2015 I think uh or 16 we offered back in 2015 I think uh or 16 and so we're we're we're we're bringing and so we're we're we're we're bringing that back uh into the for and we'll be that back uh into the for and we'll be offering that starting I think next offering that starting I think next month uh this summer um so summer 2022

month uh this summer um so summer 2022 yeah and it's a great solution be uh for yeah and it's a great solution be uh for the I would argue the minority of people the I would argue the minority of people who leave that level who reach that who leave that level who reach that level of of Optimal Health yeah that level of of Optimal Health yeah that they can handle more and they can add in they can handle more and they can add in a three bulb a uh the core bulb is or a three bulb a uh the core bulb is or the core panel is four bulbs that's 1,00 the core panel is four bulbs that's 1,00 Watts plus three more bulbs 1750 Watts Watts plus three more bulbs 1750 Watts which is about 14 1 12 amps it's just which is about 14 1 12 amps it's just under the 15 amp um threshold that is under the 15 amp um threshold that is the standard household breaker you have the standard household breaker you have an in all Breakers of the home in in in an in all Breakers of the home in in in American households is 15 amps so the American households is 15 amps so the seven bulb system can be kind of plugged seven bulb system can be kind of plugged in anywhere more or less in any standard in anywhere more or less in any standard circuit you could potentially use an circuit you could potentially use an eight bulb system which is what you have eight bulb system which is what you have but it requires uh a 20 amp dedicated but it requires uh a 20 amp dedicated circuit and that's not so common circuit and that's not so common throughout homes you see that kit and throughout homes you see that kit and bath yeah but it's easy to swap out you bath yeah but it's easy to swap out you can you can do that you can swap it out

can you can do that you can swap it out and you can potentially have that but and you can potentially have that but but again it's at the same time you know but again it's at the same time you know it's it's it's uh also something that it's it's it's uh also something that you can achieve through just staying in you can achieve through just staying in a little bit longer right you can do a little bit longer right you can do like you like you personally do and you like you like you personally do and you can easily put an eight bulb system but can easily put an eight bulb system but you chose not to for the reasons you you chose not to for the reasons you explained and that's a pretty valid explained and that's a pretty valid argument so uh one of the okay so I I'm argument so uh one of the okay so I I'm confident that many people watching this confident that many people watching this have said oh darn you make such a have said oh darn you make such a compelling argument for the near and for compelling argument for the near and for red sauna but I've got a far infrared red sauna but I've got a far infrared sauna well nothing to worry about sauna well nothing to worry about because all you have to do and I want because all you have to do and I want your comments on this for almost any your comments on this for almost any near far INF foret son it is take out near far INF foret son it is take out the bench because you're going to have the bench because you're going to have to do that because there's not enough to do that because there's not enough room there if you leave the bench in uh room there if you leave the bench in uh attach some hooks to one of the walls attach some hooks to one of the walls and you could put hang one or even two and you could put hang one or even two panels um on there and you've got it a a panels um on there and you've got it a a sa us just literally for the price of a

sa us just literally for the price of a panel nothing more yeah that's panel nothing more yeah that's absolutely uh absolutely possible so uh absolutely uh absolutely possible so uh our panels have a a really convenient our panels have a a really convenient handle on the back of them that can be handle on the back of them that can be allow the panel to be hung on the wall allow the panel to be hung on the wall so it's secure and safe and it's it's uh so it's secure and safe and it's it's uh you know it's it's fixed in place and you know it's it's fixed in place and they can do this really in any enclosure they can do this really in any enclosure so most commonly people will have a farm so most commonly people will have a farm for it SAA they want upgrade to near INF for it SAA they want upgrade to near INF FR technology they can do exactly what FR technology they can do exactly what you said with one panel or even two you said with one panel or even two panels again with caution as they as panels again with caution as they as they get to that point uh over time but they get to that point uh over time but you can also do that in any enclosed you can also do that in any enclosed space in a small closet even uh you know space in a small closet even uh you know uh we offer a shower conversion uh kit uh we offer a shower conversion uh kit there's it really doesn't matter what there's it really doesn't matter what the what the enclosure is it's just an the what the enclosure is it's just an enclosure that it's just a space that enclosure that it's just a space that needs to be enclosed so you can really needs to be enclosed so you can really um do this in a wide variety of enclosed

um do this in a wide variety of enclosed spaces and the smaller the better as spaces and the smaller the better as long as it's big enough to allow for the long as it's big enough to allow for the twoot clearance from the bulbs and twoot clearance from the bulbs and ideally the ability to rotate that's why ideally the ability to rotate that's why it's really nice to take the bench out it's really nice to take the bench out in the standard farm for it on and and in the standard farm for it on and and either get one of our stools or purchase either get one of our stools or purchase a seat of your own and um and do the a seat of your own and um and do the near infrared style SAA protocol which near infrared style SAA protocol which involves um the traditional protocol is involves um the traditional protocol is a quarter turn rotation about every five a quarter turn rotation about every five minutes I know you've just been kind of minutes I know you've just been kind of rotating front to back in your well it's rotating front to back in your well it's a derivative of yours and it occurred to a derivative of yours and it occurred to me because if you're sitting down you me because if you're sitting down you are clearly not hitting some of the are clearly not hitting some of the largest muscle groups of your body so I largest muscle groups of your body so I just face the sa initially uh and then just face the sa initially uh and then sitting down then I face then I turn my sitting down then I face then I turn my back to the SAA sitting down then I back to the SAA sitting down then I rotate again but I get off the stool and rotate again but I get off the stool and stand up now I have an eight panel stand up now I have an eight panel system so standing up literally exposes system so standing up literally exposes almost my whole body to that whereas the almost my whole body to that whereas the four bulb system it wouldn't but still four bulb system it wouldn't but still you're going to get enough reflection you're going to get enough reflection and stuff but so anyway when you stand

and stuff but so anyway when you stand up you hit your quads initially and when up you hit your quads initially and when you turn around your hamstrings right so you turn around your hamstrings right so uh and those are huge muscle groups as I uh and those are huge muscle groups as I said two of the biggest muscle groups in said two of the biggest muscle groups in your body so I I I to me that works well your body so I I I to me that works well if I get for some reason I'm more if I get for some reason I'm more sensitive to the back of my body to the sensitive to the back of my body to the Heat and I don't know the reason for Heat and I don't know the reason for that is maybe because my the current that is maybe because my the current enclosure I have is not I'm a little bit enclosure I have is not I'm a little bit further away when I'm in the front where further away when I'm in the front where I'm in the back at my I'm six foot tall I'm in the back at my I'm six foot tall so this I have to bend my head to fit so this I have to bend my head to fit into the sa so I just I'm a little bit into the sa so I just I'm a little bit closer to the bulbs but so when that closer to the bulbs but so when that happens I get too hot I just rotate and happens I get too hot I just rotate and then I'm getting somewhat of a side then I'm getting somewhat of a side exposure yeah so and then it's what you exposure yeah so and then it's what you said before how it's such a directional said before how it's such a directional radi and heat that the front heats up radi and heat that the front heats up and and the back is not you know being and and the back is not you know being directly heated and so when you rotate directly heated and so when you rotate in a near infrared SAA the S sort of in a near infrared SAA the S sort of you're you're getting you're giving the you're you're getting you're giving the side that was just heated a chance to side that was just heated a chance to rest a little bit and then the Blood rest a little bit and then the Blood starts pooling to the new side that's starts pooling to the new side that's focusing you know that that has the

focusing you know that that has the focus of the Heat and the bulbs and you focus of the Heat and the bulbs and you get a a more efficient vigorous heating get a a more efficient vigorous heating of the Torso and this Blood shunting of the Torso and this Blood shunting effect that goes on through some type of effect that goes on through some type of rotation but also you're not rotation but also you're not overexposing kind of any side you get a overexposing kind of any side you get a side a chance to rest so another way to side a chance to rest so another way to just make this the Sona experience more just make this the Sona experience more tolerable is is through rotation so you tolerable is is through rotation so you can do rotation or not but yeah you can can do rotation or not but yeah you can take a panel and basically convert and take a panel and basically convert and upgrade any small space it's more or upgrade any small space it's more or less a volume of of you know 70 cubic less a volume of of you know 70 cubic feet or so what you see in a farm for it feet or so what you see in a farm for it on a cabinet style enclosure and even on a cabinet style enclosure and even built-in saunas as well in in some homes built-in saunas as well in in some homes have custom built-in saunas in our have custom built-in saunas in our product you can also add in uh one of product you can also add in uh one of our single bulb units the photon at the our single bulb units the photon at the bottom some people uh that's typically bottom some people uh that's typically recommended for people who have uh you recommended for people who have uh you know um edema or like you know problems know um edema or like you know problems in their lower extremities and they get in their lower extremities and they get direct photobiomodulation onto their direct photobiomodulation onto their foot or their leg but that also

foot or their leg but that also increases the heat uh uh somewhat as increases the heat uh uh somewhat as well especially down low so it's all well especially down low so it's all these are all ways that you can upgrade these are all ways that you can upgrade and incorporate near infared style sauna and incorporate near infared style sauna technology into into your life whatever technology into into your life whatever you have whether you have a a large home you have whether you have a a large home or a tiny little apartment or just the or a tiny little apartment or just the only thing you have is a little little only thing you have is a little little closet under your stairwell we have yeah closet under your stairwell we have yeah you know many customers who are making you know many customers who are making that work with our panels it's got to be that work with our panels it's got to be enough I mean I think the dimensions are enough I mean I think the dimensions are it's well six foot tall I think it's 60 it's well six foot tall I think it's 60 inches from the back wall where the inches from the back wall where the panels are held to the to the door panels are held to the to the door should be about 60 inches yeah our our should be about 60 inches yeah our our panels are about nine inches deep plus panels are about nine inches deep plus two feet of clearance from the chest to two feet of clearance from the chest to the panel so you know you need something the panel so you know you need something that's at least four feet deep at the that's at least four feet deep at the minimum at the minimum yeah and 60 in minimum at the minimum yeah and 60 in would be a lot more would be probably would be a lot more would be probably yeah this way you can move back a little yeah this way you can move back a little bit because it's shocking what literally bit because it's shocking what literally a few inches will do so you can really a few inches will do so you can really modulate and titrate the dosage that

modulate and titrate the dosage that you're getting but but again it's a you're getting but but again it's a protocol that dates back uh over hundred protocol that dates back uh over hundred years so it's very safe I mean people years so it's very safe I mean people have been doing this for a long time have been doing this for a long time it's a very safe way to to do sound and it's a very safe way to to do sound and heat the body and now as we've gone over heat the body and now as we've gone over today the photobiomodulation benefits today the photobiomodulation benefits can't be underestimated yeah I mean can't be underestimated yeah I mean there's such a strong argument to there's such a strong argument to support using this type of sauna but one support using this type of sauna but one of the final criticisms that I think of the final criticisms that I think we've just literally obliterated was the we've just literally obliterated was the cost of your sauna and yeah the price of cost of your sauna and yeah the price of the the sa the the EMF free Faraday cage the the sa the the EMF free Faraday cage sauna is a bit high but if you just go sauna is a bit high but if you just go and purchase the and purchase the panels I mean you're significantly less panels I mean you're significantly less than any about any fire for red than any about any fire for red sa the big cabinet style saas are can be sa the big cabinet style saas are can be also can be you know spendy but they're also can be you know spendy but they're also kind of cumbersome you know um also kind of cumbersome you know um again back to the the average quotidian again back to the the average quotidian sauna user or the the sauna Enthusiast sauna user or the the sauna Enthusiast is not one who's in in the best of

is not one who's in in the best of health they're looking for the sauna for health they're looking for the sauna for solution so they don't necessarily want solution so they don't necessarily want this big 500 pound construction that this big 500 pound construction that they need to set up themselves they they they need to set up themselves they they want something that is more manageable want something that is more manageable um and and yeah uh just it's however you um and and yeah uh just it's however you want to start you can start you don't want to start you can start you don't even need a initially if you want to try even need a initially if you want to try out this sauna stuff you could literally out this sauna stuff you could literally heat up the water in in your bathtub as heat up the water in in your bathtub as hot as possible and in there to to hot as possible and in there to to appreciate hey actually sweating and he appreciate hey actually sweating and he this is this is interesting this is this is this is interesting this is making me feel good but you can also making me feel good but you can also yeah you can you can if you already have yeah you can you can if you already have a most people already have a farm Fred a most people already have a farm Fred sauna who are sauna enthusiasts out sauna who are sauna enthusiasts out there you can just get one of our our there you can just get one of our our four Bowl panels to to upgrade it yeah four Bowl panels to to upgrade it yeah um and and you're done and you're good um and and you're done and you're good and and and certainly if you want more and and and certainly if you want more portability and you want our design you portability and you want our design you know you can upgrade to that later you know you can upgrade to that later you can even potentially add in a three bulb can even potentially add in a three bulb unit if you reach your level of of unit if you reach your level of of discipline and and of good health discipline and and of good health um it's all just all that matters is you um it's all just all that matters is you do something you know you take take

do something you know you take take action now to to start on that journey action now to to start on that journey of of sweating because that's for me of of sweating because that's for me that was the most impressive thing also that was the most impressive thing also in the photobiomodulation studies is in the photobiomodulation studies is this is this is this is a nutrient for this is this is this is a nutrient for our bodies and for our lives we we need our bodies and for our lives we we need this on a on a frequent basis we can't this on a on a frequent basis we can't it's not a pill it's not something you it's not a pill it's not something you take once it's not a surgery it's take once it's not a surgery it's something that you need to figure out something that you need to figure out how to incorporate into your life on on how to incorporate into your life on on again a week basis so using near infared again a week basis so using near infared light to heat the body is the most light to heat the body is the most efficient quickest way to get her done efficient quickest way to get her done uh and get that sweat response uh uh and get that sweat response uh without you know spending an hour and a without you know spending an hour and a half on your therapy you know nobody has half on your therapy you know nobody has any time for anything and and uh and and any time for anything and and uh and and also yeah I mean uh cost-wise uh you also yeah I mean uh cost-wise uh you know a panel compared to some of these know a panel compared to some of these built-in saunas or or these very large built-in saunas or or these very large uh cabinets onas is it's it's a lot more uh cabinets onas is it's it's a lot more accessible for yeah and so say you use a accessible for yeah and so say you use a room in your house the the the panel room in your house the the the panel that you offer it it's the most that you offer it it's the most extraordinary cost value proposition

extraordinary cost value proposition because literally it's hard to imagine because literally it's hard to imagine that not lasting for decades probably that not lasting for decades probably the rest of your life the rest of your the rest of your life the rest of your life and you've move you can move five life and you've move you can move five you can move every year it's buil to you can move every year it's buil to last it's buil to last we've got last it's buil to last we've got customers from yeah five years ago who customers from yeah five years ago who still are using their panels even the still are using their panels even the bulbs people ask well well what about bulbs people ask well well what about these bulbs are they going to wear out these bulbs are they going to wear out these bulbs are actually rated for 5,000 these bulbs are actually rated for 5,000 hours hours so that's like you know even before we so that's like you know even before we came out with my own thermal ey bulb came out with my own thermal ey bulb that it took me many years to develop I that it took me many years to develop I still have customers who uh I shipped still have customers who uh I shipped them their original panels Dr M with them their original panels Dr M with with heat lamps you know standard heat with heat lamps you know standard heat lamps and they're still using them six lamps and they're still using them six seven years later so it's a replaceable seven years later so it's a replaceable product but it does last a long time you product but it does last a long time you take care of it it'll pretty much last take care of it it'll pretty much last forever it's it's a it's a one time forever it's it's a it's a one time lifetime at least a lifetime it'll last lifetime at least a lifetime it'll last a lifetime the very few things last a lifetime the very few things last it'll last to your health span yeah yeah it'll last to your health span yeah yeah so if and interestingly that Health span so if and interestingly that Health span is going to be considerably increased if

is going to be considerably increased if you're diligently and regularly using you're diligently and regularly using this so and it's just a caution final this so and it's just a caution final caution out of this is that more is not caution out of this is that more is not necessarily better and I've made that necessarily better and I've made that mistake I was doing sauna every day and mistake I was doing sauna every day and then I realized it's probably not the then I realized it's probably not the great greatest strategy because it's great greatest strategy because it's just too much like you don't want to just too much like you don't want to exercise every day you want to take some exercise every day you want to take some time off but with sauna you're losing time off but with sauna you're losing these toxins they're clearly coming out these toxins they're clearly coming out through your sweat but you can also lose through your sweat but you can also lose beneficial minerals so um and beneficial minerals so um and electrolytes so one of the things that electrolytes so one of the things that there's two two additions that I there's two two additions that I recommend in sa use one is we actually recommend in sa use one is we actually came out with an electrolyte H pack came out with an electrolyte H pack powder pack I used two of those put them powder pack I used two of those put them in a in a quart of water and I add a in a in a quart of water and I add a little glycine a little monk fruit and little glycine a little monk fruit and usually I'm work doing this before usually I'm work doing this before workouts or I do a workout before so I workouts or I do a workout before so I use a little hydroxy methylate and I use a little hydroxy methylate and I drink that quart about I try to finish drink that quart about I try to finish it at least a half hour before maybe an it at least a half hour before maybe an hour before I do the saunas so has hour before I do the saunas so has enough time for the water to get into my enough time for the water to get into my cells and then the other thing I use and cells and then the other thing I use and I want you to talk about that the

I want you to talk about that the electrolytes and the minerals and the electrolytes and the minerals and the frequency but then also is um the aspect frequency but then also is um the aspect of protecting your head which you of protecting your head which you referenced earlier you don't really want referenced earlier you don't really want it to get too hot so I W I went to it to get too hot so I W I went to Amazon I found a little cap that uh it's Amazon I found a little cap that uh it's a wraparound piece of a device that goes a wraparound piece of a device that goes velcro to top of to your head and you velcro to top of to your head and you put in the freezer and it's got these put in the freezer and it's got these little gel packs in there that freeze up little gel packs in there that freeze up so really keeps your head cool when so really keeps your head cool when you're in you're in sauna yeah as as far as the latter half sauna yeah as as far as the latter half of your your comment about the head yes of your your comment about the head yes we want to be careful not to overheat we want to be careful not to overheat the head but we still want we want heat the head but we still want we want heat chock protein response and we want chock protein response and we want photobiomodulation there yeah yeah so I photobiomodulation there yeah yeah so I the first five minutes I don't put it the first five minutes I don't put it put it on I put it on especially that's put it on I put it on especially that's that's another you know uh precaution to that's another you know uh precaution to have when you have a sup sauna like a have when you have a sup sauna like a seven bulb style is is to be very seven bulb style is is to be very careful with the head one one solution careful with the head one one solution is to our our our panels have multiple is to our our our panels have multiple switches so one solution is to turn off

switches so one solution is to turn off the switches that are directly align the switches that are directly align with the head to reduce the amount of with the head to reduce the amount of heat there you could also cool it off heat there you could also cool it off though like you're saying with a cold though like you're saying with a cold pack or something but also the the pack or something but also the the single lamp therapy that a lot of people single lamp therapy that a lot of people do is a localized PBM and heat therapy do is a localized PBM and heat therapy that using our single B product um it that using our single B product um it it's only recommended to use it on the it's only recommended to use it on the head 10 minutes per hour so that's a head 10 minutes per hour so that's a limitation that you don't have really on limitation that you don't have really on the rest of of the body if you're doing the rest of of the body if you're doing your foot or your gut or other areas you your foot or your gut or other areas you you put the one bulb uh 18 to 30 inches you put the one bulb uh 18 to 30 inches from the naked flesh and you can keep it from the naked flesh and you can keep it on there for half an hour or more more on there for half an hour or more more or less but on the head we're or the or less but on the head we're or the throat we're very careful to limit our throat we're very careful to limit our exposure so it's it's something where exposure so it's it's something where again if you once you when you take a again if you once you when you take a precautionary approach and a and a and a precautionary approach and a and a and a slow methodical approach you know what slow methodical approach you know what you can handle and and you don't overdo you can handle and and you don't overdo it um but yeah regarding the former uh it um but yeah regarding the former uh uh you not only are you losing uh you not only are you losing electrolytes basic sodium chloride and

electrolytes basic sodium chloride and other potassium other Basics you're also other potassium other Basics you're also when you when you pull these toxins out when you when you pull these toxins out of your cells you need to replace them of your cells you need to replace them uh with the healthy minerals that they uh with the healthy minerals that they were supposed to be there in the first were supposed to be there in the first place like the the cadmium sits in the place like the the cadmium sits in the in the DNA and and it takes the place of in the DNA and and it takes the place of of zinc in the zinc finger um epigenetic of zinc in the zinc finger um epigenetic uh structure so so when we lose that uh structure so so when we lose that cadmium you know that's just one of cadmium you know that's just one of million examples of where you need to million examples of where you need to replace that with a healthy mineral so replace that with a healthy mineral so it it also argues for having this be a it it also argues for having this be a part of uh of a healthy lifestyle which part of uh of a healthy lifestyle which includes you know food is medicine a includes you know food is medicine a real a real healthy diet but also yeah real a real healthy diet but also yeah supplementing somehow with minerals and supplementing somehow with minerals and electrolytes can be uh can be quite electrolytes can be uh can be quite beneficial most sauna enthusiasts really beneficial most sauna enthusiasts really recommend that uh so you got to be recommend that uh so you got to be careful with that that's another reason careful with that that's another reason to go slow and safe and prudent but one to go slow and safe and prudent but one other thing I would mention another other thing I would mention another reason to be slow and safe and prudent reason to be slow and safe and prudent all this is everybody's different and all this is everybody's different and you have what are called detox reactions

you have what are called detox reactions M so some people call them healing M so some people call them healing reactions in the in the world of reactions in the in the world of addiction it's called a detox reaction addiction it's called a detox reaction you get you get withdrawals and and you uh it's really withdrawals and and you uh it's really specifically it's you experience the specifically it's you experience the symptoms of of a poison or a toxin as symptoms of of a poison or a toxin as it's being it's being detoxed and and and so that's something detoxed and and and so that's something where you uh you don't want to overwhelm where you uh you don't want to overwhelm your organs of elimination you want to your organs of elimination you want to activate the skin as the most powerful activate the skin as the most powerful elimination organ it's it's one of the elimination organ it's it's one of the three systems we don't use you know we three systems we don't use you know we we urinate we defecate every day but but we urinate we defecate every day but but we don't unfortunately in the modern uh we don't unfortunately in the modern uh lifestyle we don't perspire every day so lifestyle we don't perspire every day so we want to activate the skin but just we want to activate the skin but just like with the light it's ortic stress like with the light it's ortic stress therapy you don't want to overdo it therapy you don't want to overdo it because it takes the body time to because it takes the body time to correct itself U it takes time and so if correct itself U it takes time and so if you do overdue you can have a healing you do overdue you can have a healing detox reaction where you you may get a detox reaction where you you may get a headache you may uh get really uh headache you may uh get really uh fatigued all of a sudden some people fatigued all of a sudden some people experience you know just the symptoms experience you know just the symptoms related toxins there's a thousand related toxins there's a thousand different healing reactions you can have

different healing reactions you can have and so to make that the speed bumps in and so to make that the speed bumps in the journey uh as gentle as possible the journey uh as gentle as possible again just go slow with again just go slow with things okay good and then your light things okay good and then your light bulb on the right side of your body the bulb on the right side of your body the the photon being uh is a reminder that the photon being uh is a reminder that that is a strategy that I've also that is a strategy that I've also incorporated into into my uh personal incorporated into into my uh personal workspace uh after I think was Brian ho workspace uh after I think was Brian ho or you helped me understand that most or you helped me understand that most every window in your home has uh filters every window in your home has uh filters in it that essentially prevents the in it that essentially prevents the majority not all of it but the majority majority not all of it but the majority of the near infrared coming into your of the near infrared coming into your house so it looks like you have full house so it looks like you have full spectrum light coming through your spectrum light coming through your windows but you don't you don't you got windows but you don't you don't you got visible light coming through you're visible light coming through you're blocking the near infrared and you're blocking the near infrared and you're blocking you know some of the UV too uh blocking you know some of the UV too uh but when you put that bulb on does but when you put that bulb on does amazing things so you know I I must have amazing things so you know I I must have that bulb on more than eight hours a day

that bulb on more than eight hours a day maybe 10 or 12 hours a day when I'm in maybe 10 or 12 hours a day when I'm in my office so uh when I'm walking on the my office so uh when I'm walking on the beach obviously it's not on but you know beach obviously it's not on but you know when I'm doing an interview in my studio when I'm doing an interview in my studio here I'm not on but most of the time it here I'm not on but most of the time it is on so uh just a really good way to is on so uh just a really good way to increase your increase your uh I was say digestion but absorption uh I was say digestion but absorption would be much better absorption of near would be much better absorption of near infrared is really a food that your body infrared is really a food that your body requires or a nutrient might be more requires or a nutrient might be more accurate it is and and and I'm not you accurate it is and and and I'm not you know uh to be clear this is not I'm not know uh to be clear this is not I'm not doing this in a targeted fashion it's doing this in a targeted fashion it's not like pointing directly it's just in not like pointing directly it's just in the it's just in in in the in the the it's just in in in the in the general area and it does a couple of general area and it does a couple of things it's it does essentially what you things it's it does essentially what you said it replaces the missing component said it replaces the missing component this huge near infrared component that this huge near infrared component that if we were just outside it would be in if we were just outside it would be in our light you would need you wouldn't our light you would need you wouldn't need it if you're outside would need it need it if you're outside would need it but since we're indoors we have the low but since we're indoors we have the low E glass on the windows and also indoors E glass on the windows and also indoors we have a lot of junk light we have a we have a lot of junk light we have a lot of blue LED and fluorescent light

lot of blue LED and fluorescent light that is has a flickering effect that's that is has a flickering effect that's stressful to the nervous system and blue stressful to the nervous system and blue light is causes free radical formation light is causes free radical formation you've covered that in depth even in the you've covered that in depth even in the mainstream now they have blue light mainstream now they have blue light blockers and other things because it's blockers and other things because it's it's referred to as high energy visible it's referred to as high energy visible light it's damaging to us and since if light it's damaging to us and since if there's no near infrared coming from there's no near infrared coming from these led and fluorescent light sources these led and fluorescent light sources unlike the sun it doesn't have that unlike the sun it doesn't have that healing healing um antioxidant building uh component to um antioxidant building uh component to it so putting this just in your interior it so putting this just in your interior space doesn't just replace the near space doesn't just replace the near infrared it also infrared it also mitigates uh the perceived exposure to mitigates uh the perceived exposure to the flickering line the blue light you the flickering line the blue light you can measure this with a spectrometer or can measure this with a spectrometer or a flickering light meter you can see how a flickering light meter you can see how just having a photon in this area next just having a photon in this area next to you reduces the amount of of blue to you reduces the amount of of blue light and flickering light that your light and flickering light that your body perceives and and long story short body perceives and and long story short if you work at a computer this thing is if you work at a computer this thing is lovely just just because computer work lovely just just because computer work is so stressful and these are LED is so stressful and these are LED screens and really not ideal to to live

screens and really not ideal to to live this way but we have to well in my case this way but we have to well in my case you know I was really careful and you know I was really careful and purchased a monitor that was flicker purchased a monitor that was flicker free and essentially have a filter on it free and essentially have a filter on it so there's virtually no blue light so there's virtually no blue light coming out or very very little so but coming out or very very little so but you're right for most environments you're right for most environments that's not the case and and one of the that's not the case and and one of the it's interesting because you can turn it's interesting because you can turn that light on the photon bulb that you that light on the photon bulb that you have 250 watt the INF infrared bulb and have 250 watt the INF infrared bulb and you can have the the flicker Monitor and you can have the the flicker Monitor and if you have a monitor uh that measures if you have a monitor uh that measures really high uh you'll get you usually really high uh you'll get you usually there's an audible signal to it also there's an audible signal to it also it'll with a bulb off it'll be blaring it'll with a bulb off it'll be blaring and beeping really rapidly and then you and beeping really rapidly and then you turn the bulb on and virtually disappear turn the bulb on and virtually disappear so it Ma seems to mask the flicker so it Ma seems to mask the flicker issues pretty well and uh but just gener issues pretty well and uh but just gener I I think that's a minor benefit because I I think that's a minor benefit because you can mitigate as I said by purchasing you can mitigate as I said by purchasing the right type of Monitor and the right type of Monitor and essentially I I the I have the lights essentially I I the I have the lights are rarely ever on in my office I mean are rarely ever on in my office I mean almost never you know so it's not an almost never you know so it's not an issue uh

issue uh but supplying it as a is a nutrient that but supplying it as a is a nutrient that your body requires because you're living your body requires because you're living IND doors most of your life is a good IND doors most of your life is a good strategy it it is and and people we strategy it it is and and people we talked a lot about science and and talked a lot about science and and nutrients and and all the nutrients and and all the cellular um in the weeds type of talk cellular um in the weeds type of talk but if you just imagine yourself next to but if you just imagine yourself next to the campfire you imagine yourself to the the campfire you imagine yourself to the fireplace that's what it feels like and fireplace that's what it feels like and and the feeling you're getting there and the feeling you're getting there that you can't quite put your finger on that you can't quite put your finger on but it's lovely is is the the but it's lovely is is the the significant amount of near infrared significant amount of near infrared absorption that you're getting and you absorption that you're getting and you just if you don't have something like just if you don't have something like this anymore or you're not living with a this anymore or you're not living with a lot of sun or or like our ancestors did lot of sun or or like our ancestors did you're you're missing that and and it it you're you're missing that and and it it doesn't just affect the health of your doesn't just affect the health of your cells it definitely affects your brain cells it definitely affects your brain and your mood and your outlook and and and your mood and your outlook and and just feeling just feeling good yes yeah so as I mentioned earlier good yes yeah so as I mentioned earlier as we we started this conversation uh

as we we started this conversation uh I'm a huge huge fan of sauna and have I'm a huge huge fan of sauna and have been for two decades but recent been for two decades but recent appreciation just absolutely confirms appreciation just absolutely confirms how much more important was than I ever how much more important was than I ever thought possible and it's primarily for thought possible and it's primarily for the near infrared and I'm just uh I i' the near infrared and I'm just uh I i' learned in this interview that your learned in this interview that your bulbs were 40% I thought they were 15 bulbs were 40% I thought they were 15 but it's 40% the infrared so in my mind but it's 40% the infrared so in my mind this is one of the most important bioh this is one of the most important bioh hacks or lifestyle Advan I I would hacks or lifestyle Advan I I would classify this as a relatively Advanced classify this as a relatively Advanced lifestyle strategy I mean it's certainly lifestyle strategy I mean it's certainly just getting out the sun is more just getting out the sun is more important if you're GNA if you have a important if you're GNA if you have a choice or you know eating the right choice or you know eating the right foods but clearly once you one you want foods but clearly once you one you want to move towards adopting relatively to move towards adopting relatively early on the investment is not that early on the investment is not that significant yes it's high for many significant yes it's high for many people but again remember something people but again remember something that's going to last you pretty much the that's going to last you pretty much the rest of your life this this is not rest of your life this this is not something that you have to replace this something that you have to replace this these panels they're going to last for these panels they're going to last for decades and the bulbs probably last five decades and the bulbs probably last five 50,000 hours most people it'sot of 5,000

50,000 hours most people it'sot of 5,000 5,000 5,000 hours is a lot it's years 5,000 5,000 hours is a lot it's years it's years it's years it's many years so it's years it's years it's many years so you know even if even then you're just you know even if even then you're just replacing a bold so it's you know it's a replacing a bold so it's you know it's a you know those that would be many years you know those that would be many years of use and I've yet to replace a bulb of use and I've yet to replace a bulb actually other than ones that exploded actually other than ones that exploded or got broke because I Dr dropped some or got broke because I Dr dropped some sweat on them accidentally which can sweat on them accidentally which can happen but you know with the shields you happen but you know with the shields you got around Prett because these bulbs get got around Prett because these bulbs get really hot you can burn yourself if really hot you can burn yourself if you're not careful so you have to be you're not careful so you have to be careful here or cautious yeah and that's careful here or cautious yeah and that's why you know we' developed this cage why you know we' developed this cage stainless yeah that cage is I like it so stainless yeah that cage is I like it so much better than than the first you know much better than than the first you know this has been running this whole time so this has been running this whole time so it's yeah it's wow I didn't real I it's yeah it's wow I didn't real I didn't notice that so you could actually didn't notice that so you could actually touch the cage yeah I wouldn't recommend touch the cage yeah I wouldn't recommend that but it's the important thing is to that but it's the important thing is to not touch the bulb itself yeah yeah not touch the bulb itself yeah yeah because the older ones you had were the because the older ones you had were the thicker they had the thicker bars and thicker they had the thicker bars and those did get hot you could burn those did get hot you could burn yourself on those yeah and the and the yourself on those yeah and the and the Dr Kellogg on us didn't have Dr Kellogg on us didn't have any at all they were just the Bold you

any at all they were just the Bold you had to keep your body close uh but you had to keep your body close uh but you know the S the technology has advanced know the S the technology has advanced in the last 100 years the safe use in the last 100 years the safe use technology well I'm really deeply technology well I'm really deeply appreciative and grateful for your appreciative and grateful for your commitment to providing this as a commitment to providing this as a resource and a strategy that pretty much resource and a strategy that pretty much is available to almost anyone and uh is available to almost anyone and uh because it's such a radically because it's such a radically foundational important upgrade to your foundational important upgrade to your health that will really help for the health that will really help for the long run you know especially in these long run you know especially in these neurodegenerative diseases you know I neurodegenerative diseases you know I mean Alzheimer's isn't pretty I mean mean Alzheimer's isn't pretty I mean it's yeah it's nice to good feel good it's yeah it's nice to good feel good and healthy and have a lot of energy but and healthy and have a lot of energy but you know when you lose your mind it's you know when you lose your mind it's it's definitely it's definitely more really disturbing incidents of more really disturbing incidents of early what's called early onset early what's called early onset Alzheimer's nowaday below the age of 60 Alzheimer's nowaday below the age of 60 or but disturbingly common now it's or but disturbingly common now it's that's not the that's not the the normal that's not the that's not the the normal human lot it's not our condition that's human lot it's not our condition that's a weird modern abnormality yeah so we

a weird modern abnormality yeah so we we've you know modern society offers we've you know modern society offers many advantages but you've got to be many advantages but you've got to be careful there's a lot of exchanges for careful there's a lot of exchanges for convenience for health so this is one of convenience for health so this is one of the ways you can help remediate against the ways you can help remediate against that you know excreting all the toxins that you know excreting all the toxins getting the massive dose of getting the massive dose of nrad uh and creating heat shock proteins nrad uh and creating heat shock proteins you know bing bing bang so three wins you know bing bing bang so three wins all right anything else you want to add all right anything else you want to add before we go before we go uh that's it if you want to learn more uh that's it if you want to learn more you can go to my website Sona dospace I you can go to my website Sona dospace I have a lot just son I thought it was son have a lot just son I thought it was son space.com uh they go to the same place space.com uh they go to the same place it's okay SAA saunaspace saas space.com it's okay SAA saunaspace saas space.com you can just uh search saunaspace but I you can just uh search saunaspace but I I for those who want to dive deep into I for those who want to dive deep into the literature uh we have a really nice the literature uh we have a really nice learn section to explain our light learn section to explain our light technology and our spectrum and sort of technology and our spectrum and sort of the general uh and the EMF stuff uh if the general uh and the EMF stuff uh if you're interested in that but if you go you're interested in that but if you go to the bottom of the website you can to the bottom of the website you can click on my research archive and I've click on my research archive and I've curated a lot of literature it's a curated a lot of literature it's a growing database where I've sorted it by growing database where I've sorted it by topic so if you're interested in the

topic so if you're interested in the skin or the eyes or the sauna or or uh skin or the eyes or the sauna or or uh you know brain health and other stuff you know brain health and other stuff you can go to that click on that topic you can go to that click on that topic and you can see a growing body of and you can see a growing body of research uh using photobiomodulation and research uh using photobiomodulation and sauna um to um to improve health sauna um to um to improve health outcomes so that's a great resource for outcomes so that's a great resource for people and that's all on son. Space all people and that's all on son. Space all right well thanks for everything amazing right well thanks for everything amazing resource tool you've put together and resource tool you've put together and made available for everyone to access so made available for everyone to access so congratulations on doing such a great congratulations on doing such a great job and thanks for everything you're job and thanks for everything you're doing thank you for having me Dr marola doing thank you for having me Dr marola really appreciate it thanks so much for really appreciate it thanks so much for watching Remember hit the like And watching Remember hit the like And subscribe button so you can get more subscribe button so you can get more videos that can help you and your family videos that can help you and your family take control of your health

Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.

The Sauna Evidence Base

Finland anchors much of the modern confidence around sauna. Dr. Mercola points to Finnish sauna use as the foundation for major research interest, because sauna is deeply embedded there and has been studied in relation to broad health and longevity patterns. The tradition gives us a meaningful evidence base. It also asks us to be precise about what the evidence proves.

Traditional sauna research reflects repeated exposure to heat, sweating, and elevated core temperature. Richards returns to this foundation directly: if you sweat and raise core temperature, you receive meaningful benefit. That simple threshold matters because it cuts through equipment claims. Before design preferences, wavelengths, or marketing language, the body must heat, respond, and sweat.

Heat shock proteins are part of that response, and the transcript connects them with the value of sauna beyond comfort. These proteins are discussed alongside detoxification, recovery, and the stress-adaptation effect of heat. In plain terms, heat asks the body to organize, protect, and repair itself. Done with intention, the protocol can leave you clearer, more resilient, and better prepared for the next demand.

Detoxification remains part of the conversation, but it is not the whole story. Dr. Mercola is explicit that sauna is not just for detox, even if detox is one valuable benefit. Richards adds mitochondrial function, energy production, and reduced cellular damage to the frame, tying heat and light to ATP, DNA, cell membranes, proteins, and stem cells. The outcome is vitality at a deeper level than sweat alone.

This is where discernment becomes essential. The Finnish evidence base supports the value of heat exposure, but it does not automatically validate every sauna type in the same way. A hot room, a far-infrared cabinet, and an incandescent near-infrared sauna can all produce sweat, yet they do not deliver the same light environment. Strong protocols separate proven heat benefits from design-specific claims.

The practical insight is steady and usable. Meaningful sauna benefit begins with sweat and a rise in core temperature, while different sauna designs can add or omit near-infrared exposure. You do not need complexity before commitment. You need a protocol that produces a real heat response and a clear reason for every added feature.

Traditional Heat Versus Light

Sauna has never belonged to one culture alone. Richards traces passive sweating traditions across Finland, Russia, Japan, Korea, Ireland, and Native American sweat lodges. The forms differ, but the intent is shared: enter an enclosed heated sanctuary, let the body warm, and allow sweat to carry part of the reset. The ritual is old because the need is old.

The classic Finnish sauna is often imagined as the traditional model, and in many modern settings it uses an electric hot rock heater. Richards describes a large electric heater with coils and rocks that raises the air temperature, often around 170 degrees Fahrenheit. The body then warms mainly through hot air, conduction, and convection. This is a heat-first design.

That distinction matters because hot air is not the same as near-infrared light. The heater can glow and produce some infrared, but Richards says the contemporary electric hot rock sauna primarily heats the air rather than delivering radiant, biologically meaningful near-infrared. Wood-fired saunas can provide some infrared exposure, yet he still contrasts them with the levels from the sun or incandescent lamps. One heats the room; the other can also deliver light the body can use.

The goal of sauna is not just to be in a hot room. It's to sweat and to elevate core body temperature.

The incandescent light bath offers a different lineage. Richards points to Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, who developed the electric incandescent light bath in 1891, shortly after the incandescent light bulb appeared in 1887. Kellogg used arrays of incandescent bulbs inside a Victorian-style cabinet to heat the body radiantly. The design was early, but the principle feels modern: use light as part of the protocol, not just heat.

Kellogg later wrote about this work in Light Therapeutics, published in 1910, after using the light bath with many patients in the early twentieth century. Richards emphasizes that the method has a long history of use and that early light therapy knowledge became less visible over time. The detail matters because it places near-infrared sauna outside novelty. It is a recovered branch of deliberate heat and light practice.

Incandescent bulbs are positioned here as closer to a sun-like photobiomodulation source than lower-energy infrared heaters. They provide heat, but they also emit near-infrared light in a way Richards considers more biologically relevant. Photobiomodulation, in this framing, supports repair and recovery while heat drives sweating and temperature adaptation. Together, they create a fuller ritual.

Choosing a Cleaner Protocol

In the United States, Richards identifies far-infrared saunas as the most common category. These often use ceramic tube emitters or black carbon panels that produce long-wavelength far-infrared heat. They can warm the body and produce sweat, which still has value. But they do not provide the near-infrared profile discussed earlier, and that difference deserves attention before purchase.

Far-infrared designs also raise the question of electromagnetic exposure. The conversation separates magnetic fields from electric fields because both can matter, and both require different mitigation. Dr. Mercola notes that some companies advertise low-EMF or EMF-free saunas after reducing magnetic fields, while leaving electric fields largely unaddressed. A cleaner claim must measure the whole environment, not one convenient part of it.

Richards echoes that concern from his own testing. He describes far-infrared cabinets with ceramic emitters or carbon panels as often showing high magnetic fields and high electric fields, while some improved models reduce magnetic fields but still show elevated electric fields. Magnetic fields tend to fall off with distance, but electric fields can travel through air, humidity, flooring, and other materials. The result can affect the body’s voltage and disturb the sense of clean recovery.

What about making their sauna experience electromagnetically clean and pure?

Portable far-infrared designs sharpen the concern because the user sits very close to the heating source. Some versions place the body in a foil-style enclosure with the head outside, bringing the back and torso near panels or emitters. Richards and Mercola describe measurements that found high electric fields in these products despite reassuring marketing language. Proximity turns an overlooked detail into a direct part of the ritual.

A more intentional selection process begins with fundamentals. The sauna should produce a real sweat response and a rise in core temperature. If near-infrared exposure is part of the goal, the design should deliver it in a biologically meaningful way, rather than relying on vague infrared language. Precision protects both results and trust.

The cleaner protocol also accounts for electric and magnetic fields. Low magnetic field readings alone are not enough, and shielding matters when electric fields remain present. Richards also points to protection from ambient electromagnetic stress in the surrounding environment, not only emissions from the sauna components themselves. A sanctuary should reduce unnecessary burden while the body is doing its work.

The final choice is less about chasing the most elaborate device and more about alignment. Heat should create sweat. Light should serve repair. The electrical environment should be measured with the same seriousness as temperature and materials. When each part has a purpose, sauna becomes a deliberate protocol for equilibrium, recovery, and long-term vitality.

Wim's Wise Words

A second take, from someone who's lived it.

If you take one thing from this, take the buying lesson, not the technology lesson. A good sauna is not the one with the longest specification sheet. It is the one that gives your body a clear signal: heat that makes you sweat, light that has a reason to be there, and an electrical environment you would still trust after measuring it.

I have learned to be careful around the word infrared. It sounds precise, but it can hide a lot. Near-infrared, far-infrared, radiant heat, hot air, panels, lamps, emitters; these are not small differences once you are sitting inside the thing several times a week. The body knows the difference between a clean ritual and a box full of claims.

Where I’d Start

Start with the sweat response. If you are not warming deeply enough to sweat steadily, the rest is decoration. You do not need to suffer through it. You need enough heat, enough time, and enough consistency for the body to adapt. For many, that means beginning with shorter sessions, leaving before you feel drained, and building from there.

Then look at the light. If near-infrared is part of the promise, ask how it is produced and how close your body sits to the source. Incandescent light has a different feel from a flat heating panel. I notice it most in the quality of the session: the heat feels more direct, more radiant, less like waiting for a room to overpower you. That is not a medical claim. It is a practical observation from time spent inside these environments.

If you want a wider comparison before choosing, read Light, Heat, and EMF Silence next. It pairs well with this piece because it keeps the focus on the full recovery environment, not just temperature.

The caveat is simple: do not let equipment become a substitute for rhythm. Sauna works best when it has a place in your week. I prefer heat later in the day, when the work is done and the nervous system can come down. Twenty calm minutes, a cool rinse, minerals, and then quiet. That kind of protocol does what an evening drink pretends to do; it creates a boundary between the day and the night.

None of this replaces sleep, daylight, strength work, or food you can stand behind. Sauna amplifies a life that already has foundations. It does not rescue one that ignores them.

The measurement piece matters too. If a brand talks about low electromagnetic fields, ask what they measured. Magnetic fields alone are not the whole picture. Electric fields deserve the same attention, especially in compact cabins where your body sits close to wiring and emitters. A premium sanctuary should be beautiful, but it should also be honest.

My recommendation is to choose the simplest sauna that meets three standards: it makes you sweat without making you feel depleted, it delivers light with intention rather than vague language, and it has been measured with enough seriousness to earn your trust. When those pieces line up, the ritual becomes quiet, repeatable, and deeply useful. That is where recovery begins to feel like mastery.