Cold water asks a simple question: can the body meet stress without losing composure? In this conversation from Morozko Ice Baths, the useful thread is not novelty for its own sake. It is the way small physiological signals become practical guidance for a more resilient life.
Transcript from Morozko Ice Baths. Timestamps open the original YouTube video at the corresponding moment.
[Music] [Music] Tom I am so stoked to have this conversation thanks for having me here we've got your book here I love the title uncommon cold it's all about cold therapy uh cold thermogenesis ice bass all the things uh I've got my ice bath sauna breath work repeat shirt on you can get that Folks at luk story merch. com um but in all seriousness I've been doing some form of cold or hot and cold therapy since I was a little kid long before I heard about anything like biohacking or any of that business and um I still don't have any clue about the science of why it feels so good so I'm excited to have a show with someone who's really put in the work to understand um you know how this affects us biologically and uh I don't even know where to start there's like you have so much information in your skull that I think yeah I mean let's just start out with I know where we can start out with let's start out what got you interested in jumping in super cold water in the first place um I can't say that it was anything more than an accident uh I was separated from my wife we were headed for a divorce and I started reading everything all the men's self-help literature trying to figure my myself out what am I going to do and one of those books said oh you should take cold
those books said oh you should take cold showers toughen yourself up so I did that I hated every minute of every cold shower I've ever had but if I'm going to be tough that's what I got to do the thing is I live in Phoenix Arizona and the tap water there gets up to like 90 ° in the summertime so there's no cold shower option and then a former student of mine Jason staler you've met him had him on the podcast he said well have you ever tried ice baths never heard of it have you you know whim Hoff never heard of him but I'm going to get in just to see what a difference one of the things that's changed since you were a kid is there is now this enormous body of scientific literature most of it coming out of Finland and Poland and the Czech Republic and all these Eastern European countries and maybe it's because they're kind of out of the reach of some of the usual uh medical science research apparatus in the United States but these crazy researchers start looking at what happens when people get into cold baths and cold showers one of those was a study in Finland that compared partial cold water to whole body cold water and they turn out to be way different the partial will activate your sympathetic nervous system so it revs you up you get into the fight ORF flight and that was what was happening to me in the cold shower you know swearing and I'm like what the and that's how I get through that activation but it never never brings you a cold shower will not bring you that mamillion dive reflex only the whole body will do
dive reflex only the whole body will do that so when I got up you know up to my neck and there's ice cubes everywhere and it's 34 ° the first 15 or 20 seconds are all the gasp reflex the next 2 minutes 3 minutes whatever you're going to do are the mill are the mamillion dive reflex your heart rate goes down even though your fat metabolism is revving up your body knows to conserve oxygen the best it can because it thinks you're preparing to dive and Jack Cruz just did a really interesting clip on this he said all mammals they're just ated in the womb when they're born they have to learn to breathe they we're of course we have an instinct to breathe but we also have the Instinct not to breathe because we are conceived you know in water and many human beings can be born in water when when does the baby when it comes out know to breathe not when the water is on its face but only when it emerges from the water and then we have sort of the Hollywood you slap the baby on the butt and then it takes its first breath but it's not wrong jack pointed out that this mamillion dive reflex is embedded in our genetic code because we just ate inside the amniotic fluid of the womb and my head went ah this makes so much more more sense the whole body and the partial body can both give metabolic benefits but when you're looking for
benefits but when you're looking for that that deeper psychological that meditative experience that can happen in the ice bath you go colder and you go deeper than just what I was doing the cold shower so that was a lot of fun but it wasn't serious it was you know cuz I was exploring and I was learning it didn't get serious for me until I got all my labs back I'm doing my trying to become more health conscious I'm trying to watch my weight I'm trying to go out on the dating market so I get the whole male Health panel the lipid markers are in there but for the male Health panel you get the PSA prostate specific antigen and at the time I was 52 years old and this is one of the things that men that age are supposed to watch for mine came out 7 nanog per decaler and it was in red because that's too high now I got to go you know WebMD or Mayo Clinic or whatever these websites are which I don't recommend because you spend 15 seconds and you're convinced you're going to die like my catastrophic brain said that's it you're checking out this prostate cancer of course it says go to your urologist have a prostate exam they're probably going to recommend a biopsy then you know they see of the 16 samples that they remov from a man's prostate they decide how many positives indicates that it's cancer because the false positive rate in these biopsies is pretty high if of the 16 three come back or four come back or six comeb back positive for cancer then what do you do
positive for cancer then what do you do I started talking with men you know have you ever had your PSA tested have you ever had a biopsy cuz men don't talk about this anywhere near enough and I didn't want any of the the allopathic sequa like this Cascade of interventions that would then result in a prostate ectomy because the men that i t talk to said that it was so awful at every stage so I said I'm going to do something else in my brain now I didn't have cancer at least not that I know of but in my brain I thought the choices were death alpath medicine or whatever I could figure out and I decided what I was going to figure out was ketosis and Ice baths I got in there every day and I didn't get in there because it was fun anymore and I didn't get in there because I loved it I got in there because I was afraid in my imagination I was was going to die if I didn't do it so of course I came out I was cold and I started you whether it was uh the jumping jacks or the push-ups or I finally got a steel mace I started doing that and then would walk into campus and I made this part of my routine because I wanted to get that PSA numbered down without having surgery or a biopsy took me 3 or 4 months and it came down guess what went up wh male heal Health panel also includes total testosterone and I was in pretty good testosterone shape for a you know a fat 52-year - old college professor but I went
52-year - old college professor but I went from 770 up to 1180 nanog per decaler and now the testosterone was in red my PSA was something like 1. 4 which was fine totally normal for a guy my age and when you look we go to the library these things are supposed to work in opposition the science of cold plunge therapy has revealed misconceptions the medical community used to think that high levels of testosterone because it's anabolic would encourage prostate cancer it would encourage the growth of cancer cells it turns out it's the opposite high testosterone is associated with lower rates of prostate and so one of my friends was put on testosterone blockers because he had those positive prostate cancer cells they ran his testosterone all the way below sub 200 and his medical doctor told him it was good for him because it would [__] the growth of cancer cells the medical doctor was entirely wrong I don't know if you'd been reading the wrong Journal articles but one of the things that I figured out is that the MDS don't have time to read They're meeting and they're treating I'm a PhD I'm constantly doing research and I live in the library but it was really bringham Bueller that popularized this he went on The Joe Rogan show and he said the only reason testosterone made it out was because Dr Morgan Toler did the research he did the review articles he did the studies that showed low testosterone is associated with higher
testosterone is associated with higher rates of prostate cancer high testosterone is associated with lower rates of prostate cancer so this is what the library says but I'm finally ready to go see my urologist because look I've got a clean bill of PSA health and frankly Luke I'm a little proud you know of my testosterone reading so I make the appointment I go in there with my labs and I say Doc look I'm good now right and I'm thinking I'm going to get a big pat on the back he says I want one more test what's that lutenizing hormone which I had no idea what it was turns out lutenizing hormone is what stimulates a man's gonads to make testosterone so this guy he's about my age he's thinking who is this coming in here 50s something years old 1180 nanog per decator he's juing you know I'm going to get his luteinizing hormone because if that's low he knows I'm on some kind of replacement therapy and I'm not telling him but if it's high then I would be natural that thing came back 8. 9 in red off the charts High which meant I was totally natural I sent him my labs I've never heard from him again you know because what is he supposed to do change the way he treats men based upon me and my you know one guy's like he can't do it conventional or what you call Centralized medicine if you listen to Too Much Jack Cruz is stuck it can't incorporate these kinds of findings because you have to be a rebel to be a
because you have to be a rebel to be a physician and say well I'm changing the way I treat my patients because I've noticed these patients have success with these sort of alternative therapies and these patients are not having success with everything that they taught me in medical school you most Physicians aren't going to take on that responsibility so we have a number who are customers they treat themselves one way at home with an ice bath but what do they prescribe for their patients all the standard sorts of things that aren't going to get them sued so I have made it my mission to find the clinical trials to find the N equals one trials to find the anecdotes and piece them together and put all of this science and experience in a book like this there are some 400 500 different citations lots of footnotes and some of them are personal stories and some of them are here's a study here's another study that suggests here's the mechanisms for what's happening the world needed this book I don't know if they really want to buy it uh you can only get it right now at Morosco I didn't even put it on Amazon but most of all I needed this book because this is what I do I teach engineering at Arizona State I'm not a physician I'm a doctor of philosophy you know and so I read these Journal articles and I try and piece things things together how is this working and I put it's all available for free you know every article is up there but if you want it in one place you buy the book nobody really reads what I put
the book nobody really reads what I put out there Luke I mean we're not like the most popular you know healthline. com I'm not Joe marola nobody's really paying attention until Rogan put up my picture and he'd read my article on precooling your workout you do the cold before or you do your exercise which was accidentally what I had been doing and that's where you get the testosterone boost this was December 2022 and he's talking with David Goggins and he says well I heard about this guy now I'm in Iceland with ajk we're going to go see the Northern Lights and when I get off the plane turn the phone back on it's all lit up because my friends are saying hey Rogan read about your article you know and I said I don't know what you're never been on the Joe R and you know this doesn't make any sense we dug it up and sure enough he talked about how he it now gets up in the morning and he gets right in that ice bath he keeps it at 3334 super cold and he hates the the 15 seconds before he goes in you know he's always negotiating with himself and then he does it and then he feels that sense of accomplishment and then he does his exercise he says to goggin it's really hard but it's working all of that is now in the book where are the metabolic benefits you can get those at 40 but where are those deep psychological benefits the ones that gogin says make you question everything about your life
you question everything about your life what am I doing getting into 33 degree ice up to my neck water and all of the athletes and the high performers who have I've interviewed since they say it's not for Recovery it's not for the joint pain that they feel it's not for the muscle soreness it's for that moment when they have conquered that that hesitation inside themselves and found the will to do the really difficult thing wow what a great way to kick this off I'm I'm glad because I remember you posted recently you uh you were in your Morosco it was delightful and um you're trying to explain to people nothing about Brown fat or metabolism you said you were there for the mental benefits and that is a consistent theme among our regular customers who are setting that temperature down in the 30s they say this is how I challenge myself this is where I get my winds well you know it's funny uh I think I'm lucky with the difficulty threshold because I live in Texas and when it's hot here it is hot here son anyone that comes over you know the guy that does the pool or Landscaping they see me getting in that thing and they're like oh you're crazy I go you're crazy to not be doing this in fact I I got a new guy that's been helping me plant some stuff in the yard and he was over here when it was really hot in the summer and I'm running him out you know
summer and I'm running him out you know big jars of water with electrolytes and stuff and those update drinks that I gave you and you know just trying to take care of them and then at one point I just felt so bad I brought him back and showed him the Morosco how to take the lid off and I was like you don't have to get all the way in it probably feel really good is to dunk your head in and I'll be damned every time he came over after that he was doing that you know he's like you're crazy but it does feel good I told you but when I have a difficult time with the you know the part like Joe Rogan was saying how you um you know you have this kind of apprehension going into it I only really get that if it's cold out like I noticed today the temperature dropped is probably 70 instead of 100 or whatever and uh I went out there and I was like it's less enticing and when it's winter time here say February and it's 26 or 35 ° or something man it's it's a lot more challenging but it's like a mental thing or even if it's a warm day but it's a cloudy day it's a lot harder mentally you know I find it's just like a psychological thing but to your point I think what I was saying in that post was how it's helped me so much um psychologically is is not so much in like overcoming the resistance of getting in it's gamifying the experience for myself to see how quickly I can relax yeah like people always ask me how long do you go in for and back in the early days I used to time it I remember one time when I had the I made my own chest freezer you know Sear's chest freezer ice bath which is probably dangerous because it has electricity and
dangerous because it has electricity and I was like I don't advise that these days but if that's all you can afford you can always unplug it you know and it worked just the water got swampy really quickly and stuff but I had one of those behind my brother's gym in LA and um and one day I set it was real real cold that day and I set my timer for like 20 minutes to see what happened I stayed in there and I made it 20 minutes and I thought I'm actually okay and that was the only time I got out and like was shivering so bad I couldn't drive a car you know and so I used to kind of try to be macho with it and play these games but to me it's not about like impressing people or even impressing myself with the duration it's it's how quickly can I slow my breathing and surrender to the discomfort and so it's it's had a really interesting effect on the Mastery over my nervous system so that when other similar stressful and sudden um experiences happen in my day-to - day life I remember that response you know that's like wow I can actually choose to just take a couple deep breaths and have some equinity I'm not so much as I used to be at the mercy of that fight ORF flight response cuz man you get in a cold ice bath it's flight 100% you know I mean you see anyone that's new I'm sure you've seen hundreds of people get in and I you know I have people that are new sometimes and they want to try it and it never fails the response is this and I'm like dude you're making it so much harder on yourself if you shut
so much harder on yourself if you shut your mouth breathe through your nose as counterintuitive it is it only takes a few deep breaths through the nose and you know telling your subconscious mind telling your nervous system that you are safe even though every nerve in your body is telling you otherwise that it can't hurt you it's not hurting you it's actually helping you like that's where the secret sauce is and funnily enough today because I was running behind it's the first day in eons that I haven't taken an ice bath right before I recorded I thought that was funny I'm like I got the guy who made my ice bath the Morosco and today's the day I was like ah it's a little chilly out skip a day I'm feeling pretty good I'm in a good mood already you know I've had a good day and so on um so it's just hilarious yeah but every other time usually the guest shows up and I'm like I'll be right back and I go get an ice bath and that's like the last thing I do before I sit down because I want to be a alert and also just have that Rush of Feelgood chemicals running through my ve I almost jumped in your ice bath in your backyard right before we started it was so tempting cuz I stayed at a hotel last night now we'll do cold showers as best I can water wasn't very cold doesn't really have cold showers yet no and I find I miss it you know if I'm away from my morasco for a day or two there's some part of me that longs for it again but I don't do four five six minutes a day I don't have a timer there's been a lot of stuff you've been telling me about micro doing and so people have been
doing and so people have been discovering that micro doing psychoactive drugs can give them a lot of benefits this really just in the last 10 years that it's become part the mainstream conversation there's an analogy with cold the first 15 seconds are the worst of any ice bath and then you structure your breath you sort of you take control of that Panic response and that feeling of um what was I even worried about you know sort of comes over you well you probably got 80% of whatever you needed to do that morning right there I'm no longer working on my metabolism I'm no longer working on my testosterone I'm not no longer working on inflammation I'm working between my ears now I have this stressful I suppose I could say existence I'm a bundle full of anxieties you know I'm trying to be a professor I'm trying to run a startup company I'm trying to uh publish a book I'm trying to put out on social media everything that needs to change in healthc care because I have the sense that we are at a critical Junction in in reforming the institution of healthare in reforming Health policy in changing people's minds about how you take care of yourself I'm watching mental health metrics go through the roof you can't get a decent therapist because they're all on waiting list meantime the drug overdoses and the suicides are all like on these hockey stick graphs I'm watching life expectancy in the United States drop off a cliff and I keep
States drop off a cliff and I keep thinking what more could I be doing now to turn those graphs around so sometimes 4: 00 in the morning 5: 00 in the morning when it feels hopeless for me um I'm like well this is it we're out of resources we're out of ideas we don't know what to do next and we're up against things that will probably never change I go into the ice bath 30 seconds later there's three more things I haven't tried all right we're going to get back up going to get back on the computer or get back on the podcast or I'm going to uh meet with the team I'm going to say okay here's something we haven't done yet let's see how this works for me it is the resolve to keep going despite all the challenges despite the fears and the anxieties of failure or criticism or humiliation that come when anybody is working on something that is really important to them or maybe it could be that my director has called me into his office again to complain about something I did at Arizona State that also is a source of anxieties but the ice bath is how I melt those things away the irony is that the water it's like it takes it out of my body and when I get up I feel like Superman again I feel like I can do anything I put my mind to and I rely on that feeling these days all right I'm going to ask you a personal question how's your sleep lately and did you know that Delta Sleep
lately and did you know that Delta Sleep the deepest sleep stage is critical to your health and vitality that's where your bones repair cells regenerate and your memory consolidates so that you can use it more effectively but here's the thing we lose more and more of that precious Delta sleep with every year that goes by and no surprise that loss is linked with a grip of diseases as we age it's really important so that's why I was stoked to discover the soultech health system soultech zra analyst monitors every stage of your sleep in real time but that's just where the magic starts when the soultech senses your body shifting in or out of deep sleep it sends a message to the zgen magnetic conditioner at the foot of your bed which then sends out frequencies that gently guide you back to the right stage of sleep and I got to say for real since I've been using the soultech my Delta Sleep scores are off the charts it's by far the coolest sleep Tech I've ever used and I've tried a lot so get your sleep on point by going to luk story. com soultech s o t c and if you use the code Luke 2024 they're going to give you the best available discount on your soul tick Health System note to what I did and wait for your sleep problems to creep up on you reclaim your Delta sleep right now and feel your best every damn day that's luk story. com soultech and the code is Luke 2024 let's talk about the neurochemistry give me some of the geeky stuff on why it is so good for stress and
on why it is so good for stress and anxiety depression I mean one easy thing to see about like rumination right like if the Mind Chatters really loud you kind of alluded to this or maybe you're a bit sad or you're experiencing some grief the degree of presence required to relax really cold ice bath has a way of just psychologically eclipsing all of that because you're left with no choice but to be present but beyond that like what's actually happening in terms of our you know neurotrans transmitters hormones and all that causes us to feel so good and not just immediately after I mean like the rest of the day it's amazing it lasts for hours both neurochemically and psychologically and if I remember this right there's four different levels you've touched on the first one an ice bath is the best way to bring you to your present moment because when you're in there there's no past there's no anxieties about the future there is only what is going on now and so so a lot of the rumination that human beings get stuck in and sometimes it can be productive I don't want to say that it's always bad but it disappears when it when the ice bath snaps you into that present moment what is happening to you right now and that kind of reset is really useful for me the second level is there's a very popular study hubman popularized it it was done in Poland and it was measuring the blood serum
it was measuring the blood serum response to whole body C cold water imur and the water wasn't even that cold but they found this 250% increase in dopamine on average and you got to think about that that's three and a half times the level of dopamine now coursing through your bloodstream because you spent a few minutes in the ice bath and it's not just that it's noradrenaline those are the ones that people uh they give people that sense of euphoria of accomplishment and those are wonderful neurochemicals to have when you go a layer deeper it turns out those aren't the only neuroactive factors that are produced in your body there's also a boost in oxytocin there's also a boost in vasopressin in women there's an immediate boost in testosterone and this is because only about a quarter of the testosterone in a woman's body is produced by the ovaries now the ovaries are inside her body and they're not really stimulated in a brief ice bath but the rest of the testosterone comes from the adrenal glands the fat cells and the skin and those three get stimulated by the ice bath immediately so she gets the testosterone men typically have to exercise after the ice bath to get the testosterone because they have so much more and it's produced in the testes although they can also produce it in the adrenal glands it's just a small fraction of what's really csing through our veins now let's break this down this third level you take the
this down this third level you take the testosterone the dopamine the neur adrenaline the oxytocin and the vasopressin all of these neurochemicals are associated with different understandings of Love Helen fiser is this psychologist who's consulted with match doom and the dating sites about how people find people and what creates attraction she says there are three brain systems of love now I don't know what a brain system is or what she means by that necessarily but I understand that in English this word love it is poetic you know it's hard to I love ketchup you know what does that even mean love there are three ways to think about it one is pure lust this is the testosterone reaction so the libido another is what Helen Fischer calls romantic love this is the jealous possessive kind of love that we have for the people that we might have a crush on or that we're in a new relationship for the Third Kind of Love Is she calls famal love the love that you would have for your pet or for your sibling you can have all of these for a single person and isn't that a wonderful feeling but you can also experience them separately uh familiar love for someone you have no Lust For or you know lust for someone that you have no romantic attachment to when you get in the ice bath all of these brain systems as fiser calls them are activated by the neurochemicals that
are activated by the neurochemicals that are stimulated inside your body so I didn't know this I didn't know the research behind this but I had an experience with AJ when we were on a photo shoot and it's up in Sedona now AJ's beautiful and she's smart and there's so many things to be attracted to but man was I angry at her that day you know we were in the middle of a big argument for things that I thought she was so you know wrong about and unfair and you can see it my daughter was the photographer and we procrastinated on this shoot until the very end of the day and I told myself well that's to get the light right and thing you know Sedona is a beautiful backdrop we waited too long and at the beginning of this ice bath we can't even look one another in the eye my daughter says hey it's time to go we got to roll and we get in and we hold hands cuz we're supposed to and we make eye contact and we're breathing cuz we're supposed to and it takes about a minute for her to start smiling and then giggling and then laughing and then she leans in and we're making out in the ice bath because the chemistry in this is involuntary got me on that one that's something I have not tried and my daughter is like you two get a room cut we're done you know we fell right back in love every resentment was gone from my mind we had a wonderful weekend now you said you've never tried this and
you said you've never tried this and it's worth experimenting but I haven't met a lot of people who have you know talked their significant other into doing this and we never would have done it together if it weren't you know for the circumstances of this photo shoot but my experience is entirely consistent now with the mechanisms that I've read about in the literature an ice bath when you do it with someone like that it's like a love potion and it lasts for hours you cannot be depressed and be in love at the same time now I understand that love can come with a lot of complex feelings and you can be depressed because you're not getting something out of the relationship that you really want but in that moment with the testosterone and the dopamine and the neuro adrenaline and the oxytocin the vasopressin which are those bonding hormones of familiar love you don't feel any of that so there's now a scientific explanation for the N equals two experience that AJ and I had which is a wonderful way of piecing this all together there is a fourth level so we talked about uh the present moment we talked about the dopamine that people know about we talked about some of these deer deeper neurochemicals the fourth level is the metabolism and this is something that Chris Palmer has been really good at popularizing he wrote a book called brain energy he's a Harvard psychiatrist so he goes to medical school he specializes in Psychiatry and now he's a practitioner a clinician but he's also a
practitioner a clinician but he's also a faculty member at Harvard his brain energy book he dedicated to his mother what he doesn't say in the book is that Chris Palmer's mother suffered from schizophrenia and it impacted him severely because there were moments in his childhood I mean as I understand from other sources that aren't in the book where he was homeless because of his mother's mental illness now if you had that experience as a child and you had the aptitude for medical school would you choose Psychiatry as your specialty would you go deeper into to this practice to try and understand schizophrenia and these mental health disorders because you can totally understand why Chris has done this but his book is a terrific critique of the diagnostic statistical manual and everything that is failing in the treatment of mental health patients he says the mental health disorders respond to metabolic therapies much better than they respond to talk therapy or other drugs or ssris or what we call the anti-depressants he's now got case studies of schizophrenic women who's put on a ketogenic diet and their schizophrenia resolves their lifespan is extended and they're not the only ones we've known about epilepsy in the ketogenic diet for a long time so that we know that there's a relationship between metabolism and the brain and what Chris is telling us is that when the brain can't get the energy that it needs because the mitochondria have been damaged because the body has become insulin resistant of course the brain can't do the difficult work of managing
can't do the difficult work of managing anxieties or reframing experiences or finding the good in what feels like the bad thing that is happened all of the things that the cognitive behavioral therapists or anybody else would tell you are good for you for your mental health they require your brain to be functioning well even if you don't have a a diagnosable condition like schizophrenia or like epilepsy your brain prefers ketones there is nothing that stimulates endogenous Ketone production better than an ice bath really you get in there and you're going to clear glucose from your bloodstream right away your brown fat is sucking the glucose out of your bloodstream saying we're using this right now for thermogenesis this is an emergency situation the hypothalamus has activated the brown fat through your nervous system and said you better get going but the glucose reserves in your body are so small your liver stores glucose and it will release it into your bloodstream right away we've got continuous glucose monitoring uh of people type 2 diabetics and people who have normal insulin responses and this is great stuff after the 345 seconds that initial Spike of glucose Reserve that your liver re uh releases comes right back down and your brown fat will switch to lipid metabolism when your brown fat is burning oh sorry burning the lipids the because there's two kinds of fat Brown fat and white fat their different functions the brown fat cold thermogenesis production of neuroprotective factors it's a secretory organ that helps modulate thyroid
organ that helps modulate thyroid function white fat mostly energy storage so the brown fat will burn lipids released into the bloodstream from the white fat and part of that is the production of ketones so you can use an ice bath to get yourself in ketosis almost immediately some people have to go three days of almost zero carb to get them s into ketosis but I've tested this on my own body I have good metabolic flexibility so people naive to cold exposure probably aren't going to get the same results but for me it was Thanksgiving last year cuz I'm a sucker for pumpkin pie and I ate like half the dang pumpkin pie then pumpkin pie regret sort of like came in a little later and I said well what am I going to do about this I peed on a stick a keto stick just to see where I was no ketones got into my ice bath and I said this is how I'm going to get rid of this glue this is what I'm going to do because I had such a good high carbohydrate time sort of my metabolic Penance I got out of there peed on the stick again an hour later and I have small ketones because the ice bath will stimulate the release of those lipids from the white blood cells and get your brown fat burning them up in fat metabolism it stimulates endogenous Ketone production almost immediately which your brain adors so we have these four different levels and this final one is the metabolic benefits When you activate your brown fat it will produce
activate your brown fat it will produce brain derived or sorry it is associated with higher levels of brain derived neuroprotective Factor it will produce fgf21 and these are the two neuroprotective factors that are most effective against Alzheimer's we've just seen something like a 100 papers and don't quote me on the number but on the scale is about right about 100 papers that are related to alzheimer's just based upon madeup falsified data all the Alzheimer's drugs that have been proceeding through trials they're all phony and they all get shut down before they get approved by the FDA because they don't work worth a damn you know what works metabolic therapies magnesium vitamin D Brown fat the things that heal the brain's metabolism when you take care of your mitochondria take care of your brain so that's the fourth level and this is so complex that I can't I wish I could reduce this down to a 90c reel on Instagram and it would go viral and everybody would say hey Ice baths are good for the brain and yet I had to write a bookia Jared over here knows how frustrated I get trying to make reals I'm like how does anyone say anything in 90 seconds there's too much to say especially when you get into the science like this so that Ketone piece is really interesting I did not know that whatsoever uh but I find it interesting in terms of the blood sugar regulation so you had your pumpkin pie experiment which went well I'm going to do it again
which went well I'm going to do it again L like thanksgiving's coming up and yeah that's what I that's that's what I'm going with this so if one was to you know I get down with some ice cream that's that's my weak spot there I just you know Allison can like take a couple bites of ice cream and put it back in the freezer so she buys it and I can't so I can't Outlaw it from the house because I have self-control problems but once I get a taste of sugar it's over I'm going to finish yours and mine so it it would make sense I mean it's probably better to not OD on sugar but if one can't help themselves like me in some cases it sounds like after a high carb or high sugar meal that an ice bath would be a good way to regulate that much like taking a long walk would be is that valid yeah they both have similar effects of um stimulating your metabolism so that instead of getting that high insulin Spike which will drive the glucose into your fat cells you're consuming it either in your muscles or you're consuming it in your brown fat the best thing you can do is get in the ice bath and then go for a walk you don't have to choose one of the other and then the walking will restore circulation into your limbs it will help boost your testosterone and you will be managing your hormone levels like insulin um grein and leptin are also associated grein with appetite uh leptin with the storage of fat and so there's some things that you can do that will
some things that you can do that will will kind of lessen the blow but ice cream depending upon what you're getting it's not the worst I mean the tell me more fat egg yolks what's it sweetened with is it sweetened with sugar which ain't I mean there's probably worse things that you could pick but uh I'm not a fan of sugar or is it sweetened with honey and maple syrup and things that have a lower glycemic insect I learned this from Ben bman allulose seems to be his favorite sort of non-glycemic non-insulin spiking sweetener there are things that you can do with ice cream that aren't the worst for you I'm on kind of a heavy cream diet I've discovered that coffee just enables my heavy cream addiction you know toally and so totally and it's not bad for me can you guys get raw dairy out in in Arizona Arizona it's okay you got to go to the special grocery store you can get the raw dairy you can even visit the farm you know where they make it and you can see that um I mean the wonderful bacteria that comes from a healthy lactating animal of course that's good for us on the other hand I understand pasteurization because once dairy farms went industrialized they became dangerous so pasteurization is a solution to a problem that a good Farm doesn't have and when you go and see the good farm and you see the the hygiene and sanitary conditions and the visit the cows which I've done of course you want to get your hands on that raw dairy
want to get your hands on that raw dairy there are ice cream just like pumpkin pie has some good redeeming quality you know eggs and vitamin A this is what I tell myself I'm going to tell myself that too I mean granted you know generally speaking I'm eating the cleanest possible ice cream I'm still getting in the ice bath after you might know that the brain operates in five distinct frequencies gamma bet AA Alpha Theta and Delta and each brain wave has its time and place in the cycle of your day but sometimes you're not in the state you need to be for the tasks ahead now one of the OG biohacks to transcend this mismatch was called brainwave entrainment and devices that use this technology have been around for a long time and I've probably tried them all at this point the problem is that most of them didn't really work at least not for long but there's one way I found to change my brain wave state immediately and consistently it's called newom newom is a unique experience that targets six specific brain States and it's backed by tons of Neuroscience I mean legit Neuroscience I've been using newom very consistently for the past 5 years anytime I want to drop into a particular brain State quickly for example like when I start feeling the onset of afternoon fatigue I just punch up the power naap settings on my phone throw on some headphones and newom gently slows my brain down to Alpha and theta waves and after just 20 minutes I wake up feeling refreshed and ready to smash the rest of my day it's
ready to smash the rest of my day it's no joke really works so visit newcom docomond free trial when you're ready to join use code Luke to get 15% off any subscription that's newom n cm. com back to the Keet tones is there any um extra benefit to say chugging down some exogenous ketones I'm obsessed with this stuff Ketone IQ I I drink I don't know two or three bottles a day it's incredible for brain function that's what I really notice um I've not really tested it on you know physical strength and endurance as many people do but to me it's an amazing neut Tropic so often times before the podcast I'll I'll chug one of those Ketone IQs uh would there be any kind of bonus benefit to taking some ketones and then getting in the ice pad I'm going to say yes because there are studies of exogenous ketones in animal models that have measured benefits I'm going to talk about those in a second however there is no dietary dietary source of ketones at least not that I'm aware of when we're talking about ice cream that's because it's like breast milk where else do you find fat and carbohydrates in the same you know combination there there's no wonder we eat our feelings you know out of the freezer because when we're getting anxious when we go dip into that French vanilla it's like going back to mom as a baby this is the only place I know that
baby this is the only place I know that fat and carbohydrates coexist in that kind of combination as far as I know there's no natural dietary source of ketones they have to be produced industrially and when they are Thomas sea freed who's uh probably the world's most well-known scientist of cancer at a met metabolic disease I think he said at Boston University and he has published the most convincing work on ketones and cancer and the metabolism he's implanted tumors into these mice or rats or animal models and he's administered to them exogenous ketones not putting their own metabolism into ketosis but just saying what happens when I Elevate the Ketone levels in their bloodstream it inhibits tumor growth it is I'm going to use an analogy here it's like a chemotherapy but without poison with nutrition because the cancer cells they operate on fermentation their mitochondria are already shut down there's two things that they can ferment one is glucose which they love 80% of tumor cells have genes that are upregulated for glucose metabolism but they can also many of them not all cancer cells but many strains can um ferment glutamine which is an amino acid so you have the glucose and the glutamine but they cannot process ketones and so when you
process ketones and so when you administer exogenous ketones in these animal models they promote all the healthy cells metabolism and starve the cancer cells this is the mechanism by which the tumor growth is inhibited in the animal models now the question is if that works so well in cancer in animal models you know what about the cold cold stimulates Ketone production couldn't the cold you know have some of the same effect and nobody had really study this until a group of Swedish researchers so this is 2023 SEI at all and you know I've got the citation all over mosope forge. com what does at all mean at all is Latin I've always wondered that I keep meaning to look it up and I always forget and others when I was in graduate school I had to do the same thing I had you always see that on studies exactly the ETC means and a whole bunch of other stuff so the at all means and others right now thank you for clarifying that so I know what I'm I'm now I'm going to start using it and sound really smart yeah if it's Latin it's got to be learned yeah um but sui's the first author and they get a group of people and they say we're going to do the animal model thing they take rats and they expose them to cold air but is acute intermittent cold exposure same same thing the rats are bred to die of cancer they implant tumors in the rats and they find the same effect that sefre did with the exogenous Ketone
did with the exogenous Ketone Administration it inhibits tumor growth and it extends the life of rats who are bred to die of cancer so they're like well okay this is pretty amazing but what about human beings we can't just trust animal models they took a Hodgkins patient and this Hodgkins patient had already been through several rounds of chemotherapy but there were more rounds to go so they're in the middle of traditional treatment and they said we want to know if the cold is going to activate Brown fat clear glucose from the bloodstream starve the tumor cells in the same way that it does in the animals pet scanning uh positron emission tomography it's how you detect Brown fat in human beings you have to administer uh a radioactive tracer of glucose so they drink this in gets into their bloodstream and then you can follow the glucose glucose using pet scan where does it go and it accumulates in the tumors so when you administer this radioactive tracer and then you put a patient in a PE scan you say ah there's the tumor for a long time medical doctors thought there was no such thing as brown fat in adult human beings and then pet scanning was invented these pet rooms like it's very intense very power consuming and so they have to keep them cool just for the equipment then you put on this you know gown which is crappy and I hate them and of course you get into the cool room and some people they get their Brown fat activated most people don't have any brown fat 95% of people tested over the
brown fat 95% of people tested over the age of 45 no detectable Brown fat but again in Sweden and this goes back like 15 years they're seeing symmetrical deposits show up and they know it's not a tumor because cancer is not symmetrical and they say I think this is brown fat and they changed all the Medical Science opinions yes adult human beings who get cold can have brown fat so this SEI Ed all team says we're going to use P the positon emission tomography to track what is happening in the brown fat and the human being to whom we've administered this radioactive trace and we're going to put them in the cold where does the glucose go into the brown fat and not into the tumor so they verified in a human being that the same mechanism that is active in the rat also exists in humans now there is this whole new wave of of trolls and haters on you know Twitter that are telling me I don't have a medical degree I'm full of crap that when I cite these studies from Thomas sea freed and from Sweden that say look at what's happening to Brown fat metabolism and look at the idea that we could starve tumor cells out the idea that uh the ketogenic diet has already been shown to um reduce the side effects of chemotherapy and accelerate the beneficial aspects of chemotherapy y to help the chemotherapy patients recover faster what could happen with cold and brown fat and then I cite case studies of people who have declined the centralized the allopathic medical they
centralized the allopathic medical they say I don't want the surgery I don't want the chemotherapy I'm going to try the cold instead and in some cases they have resolved their cancer and removed all blood markers of cancer in their bloodstream well people say that can't be true but so much is changing in the science that um I'm not going to listen to these people who say we've always done it this way so that must be the way to always do it what do we have to lose by getting into an ice bath for a couple of minutes by restoring that brown fat in our body that we had as children that we lost as adults I mean it could be uncomfortable and I'm not saying that it's going to cure your cancer I can point to people who swear it has cured their cancer Dean Hall is one of them he's in the book and he's written his own book called The Wild cure he used to have leukemia he swam the entire length of the willamet River in Oregon it took him 3 weeks to do it and he experienced hypothermia at several stages and when he got out of that River he didn't have leukemia anymore no way right so if we see that we say here's a source of hypotheses I am waiting for the next medical researcher the next clinician to say I want to combine SE freed and what sea freed knows about ketones and what sea freed knows about the mitochondria and his studies on transplanting healthy mitochondria into actually did it the other way he took a cancerous nucleus
other way he took a cancerous nucleus and he put it into a cell with healthy mitochondria and the healthy mitochondria repaired the defects in the DNA that are uh characteristic of cancer and combine that with SEI who says look cold will also stimulate endogenous Ketone production it will stimulate uh the cold shock proteins that we know can activate repair mechanisms inside the nucleus and repair the defects in the DNA when we're ready to combine these different lines of evidence into a definitive clinical trial then we might unlock a brand new way of treating cancer that doesn't involve chemotherapy because I'm with Zack Bush you know he's on Instagram saying cancer is not a chemotherapy deficit you know that might kill the cancer cells but the rates of recovery are so bad we need to look at what are the originating causes yes it's toxins that cause damage but this metabolic approach to cancer seems to be much more promising and I'm an engineer I build machines the people who can do those studies are never going to get funded by the NIH and I've talked to people who have long track records of funding at the NIH one of them is at the University of Utah another univers used to be a University Washington other people at ASU who do a lot of work with the NIH and he goes that's not the way they tell me that's not the way the NIH
they tell me that's not the way the NIH works is there some private philanthropist who's going to uh you know fund this clinical trial and then we're going to wait the three years or are you going to say God damn it I'm getting myself in AJ had a tumor on her liver I was in Texas and I was in Dallas and I got a call and she said I am in acute pain I think maybe I popped a cyst in my ovaries or something you know i' I've felt this before but this feels worse and um I just wanted to let you know and I said what are you kidding get yourself to this is before covid before masks before the social distancing all the rules in the hospital so get yourself to the hospital and find out what this is flew back to Phoenix and she was in the ER but she hadn't been admitted and they weren't telling her finally the doctor came in and he said well we had to send your case all the way up to the tumor board convenes she has a growth it's 4 cm wide and it's on her liver and her liver was bed bleeding out this was the source of her abdominal pain and of course she says well what can you do and she says well the doctor says the tumor board says it will not respond to chemotherapy it is not amenable to surgery because you have a history of a bleeding disorder if we cut your liver you could just die right on the table well what about radiation it won't respond to radiation we can't reach it in the right way and we don't know if uh we would do more damage than we could
we would do more damage than we could call well what can you do and they said watch and wait what the hell she said Tom watch and wait sounds like a death sentence when a tumor comes out of nowhere and it's imp pinging upon my lip what am I going to do I've got four daughters and they're counting on me I said you're going to do the same thing Dean Hall did you're going to do the same thing I did you're going to cut all the alcohol and the sugar out of your diet and you're going to get into the ice bath she did now watchful waiting requires you to get a scan you know every several months she went back for a scan all before covid that damn tumor shrunk from 4 centimeters down to 2 and a half centimeters then Co shut down all the hospitals she wrote an article she wrote a couple of them one of them called The Curve is already flat she was saying look it's already in community spread and these lockdowns are useless she wrote another one several weeks later that said the lockdowns are killing more people than Co people like me cannot get a scan because they stopped all the elective procedures in the hospitals and what they didn't tell the public is elective is anything that can be scheduled not whether it's life-threatening or not but if it can be scheduled it's prohibited she said I have tumor I can't get it scanned and even if I could I'm not going to mask up and keep my daughters out of the hospital I'm like the rules that even if the hospit if the scanner was open to me the conditions that they're imposing upon me I will never go back to a hospital like this she wrote that article I sent it to the governor of
article I sent it to the governor of Arizona he lifted the band two and a half hours later because it was so impactful what we were doing to people who needed treatment and we were denying them that treatment was so dangerous at that time that the governor of Arizona was convinced to lift the band other things like isolation of masks stayed in place but at least people could get elective treatment again and when the band was lifted I asked her so you going to scan and she said no you have to promise me that you will never put me back in that hospital again if they will not allow my daughters to come with me then I'm because they might find something and they might not let me out and I'm not going to die without my daughters by my side so now Luke I've got a promise right but what are you going to do she's going to do ice bath she's going to do the keto she's going to do all the metabolic things that people tell me don't work and would never work because she has a lot less to lose by trying it what is what's the worst thing that is going to happen she feels a little cold for a little while just nothing matters no clinical trial matters no Health policy matters no CDC support matters more than your n equals 1 experience you experiment on yourself and you say this is working for me then you keep doing it if you experiment on yourself and you say this isn't working for me then all the library studies in the world are Irrelevant for you so you can now read
Irrelevant for you so you can now read that she wrote the uh the forward to the book and she helped me with the introduction and it has changed my view as a scientist because I used to be one of those guys she said well you know we've got to have double blind Placebo control randomized P factor I used to be one of those idiots and now I say no what matters for you all those other science those studies are just sources of hypotheses for you to try beautiful I don't remember what you asked me or even if I it doesn't matter but this is how I'm not even needed here you just need the guest just need someone to talk to most of yall don't really need many prompts I forgot to mention uh you can find the show notes for this and we're going to link to you know your articles her article if you want to send me a link to that in your book we'll put everything at luk story. com ibath I'm going to be honest here guys most days I am too busy to go through a whole skin care routine with lots of different products so my go-to for tackling fine lines and wrinkles has to be quick and easy or I'm not going to do it and that's why I started using the red light f face mask from Bond charge it's the ultimate hack to achieve younger looking skin with very little effort the mask is super sleek and comfortable and the eye holes and cordless design allow me to rejuvenate my skin without missing a step in my daily routine and since it's battery powered and not plugged in the wall I don't have to blast my face with EMF while I'm using it the mask bathes your
while I'm using it the mask bathes your face in red light at 630 NM which is the optimal frequency for targeting skin health and you can o switch it to near infrared or choose both wavelengths at once for maximum results with regular use the red light face mask can improve the overall texture and tone of your skin leaving you with a smoother more radiant complexion and you don't have to do this thing constantly to get visible results you just use it 10 minutes a day three times a week grab yourself a mask over at Bond charge. com lifestylist and the code lifestylist will save you 15% oh and this bad boy is not just for wrinkles and aging it also Smooths out eczema acne and Scar Tissue as well plus it can help with a sore jaw and migraines too and more than anything I think I just like this because I feel so relaxed after I do a session so get over to bond charge. com lifestylist that's b o n c h a r GE Bond charge. com lifestylist let's let's carry on with the metabolic Health thing though cuz you sparked a memory of mine years ago I interviewed a a uh PhD immunologist named Dr Q Collins on the topic of dyum and he had done um a series of studies with dogs with terminal cancer and all I did to my me all he did to my memory was put them on a strictly ketogenic diet and feed them uh duyan depleted water for a period of time and
depleted water for a period of time and I I forget so you know we'll put that in the show notes you go back and listen to it but basically 90 or 100% or something of these dogs got rid of their cancer just from doing that I was like oh this is so interesting that's the first time I heard about the relationship between metabolic health and cancer yeah um so that begs the question has anyone to your knowledge looked into the uh impact of cold therapy in terms of your mitochondria being able to produce more dyum depleted water cuz the way he explained it and also his um partner at that time llo boros as they said the reason that ketogenic diets are so impactful for cancer is because your mitochondria produced this this um Duan depleted water like they're like that's the whole point is to get the ddw you know working um which which um helps to improve the function of the nanomotors in the mitochondria which then are able to produce ATP more effectively and you can do the same thing I mean I drink deteran PL of water all the time um just based on those two conversations because it was so impressive but have you seen any connection between utum and cold there are three things uh Jared's got to remind me because I'll go off on some tangent and I'll forget them um I'm going to go backwards through time okay we're going to talk about duum depleted water we're going to talk about mitochondrial therapy and then we're going to get back to ketones and why ketones have a bad reputation so detarium depleted water this is one of
detarium depleted water this is one of those things uh I was doing a podcast with Dr Max G he's from Australia and we're talking about lots of different things he great and he said uh but Professor Zer I don't really understand the detarium depleted water can you explain it and at the time I said max I don't understand more than 30% of the things Jack Cruz talks about but I had to believe I start from the premise that he's right and I'm just too stupid to to know what's going on you know and that has served me pretty well I'm not saying Jack Cruz is always right I'm saying that that is my default because he's so far out ahead of me and then it takes me time to catch up to things that he says I know the feeling right okay I'm not defending him either because he has a certain way Max is such a good host and he is so generous that when I'm ignorant I can admit it to Max and not feel like he's going to jump down my throat I said but here's a little bit of biochemistry we understand that electrons travel through wires they travel on the surface of the copper or the silver or whatever it is and they jump along that is not the way they travel through cells there are not free electrons moving around through our mitochondria and through our cells they're always attached to something just like they would be attached to the metal in a wire and so we talk about how people are electric and the flow of electricity is so and it's important but for every electron there is a proton and protons do not move freely not even
protons do not move freely not even through our nerves protons move through the cell as h3o you know that H2O is a water molecule when you add a proton you get h3o with a positive charge and that's what balance out wherever the electron is when you have to move a proton it's much larger than an electron essentially has like no atomic mass but these protons you know they do and moving that proton is is a physically different mechanism than an electron would travel along wherever the electrons go there has to be a compensating you know charge balancing proton move but it's a different mechanism now add a neutron to that proton and you have doubled the atomic mass of the additional proton so how you going to move that around and this is just basic biochemistry I'm I'm not speaking to um exactly what's happening or to the level of expertise that Jack has but this is what I explained to ma when you add a neutron to that proton and now the thing is bigger and it is heavier it's more difficult to move the proton pumps the proton transport mechanisms that are essential to this energy conversion role that the mitochondria play producing the ATP from the metabolic substrates like glucose like lipids they depend upon proton transport if you slow that proton transport down by adding a neutron to make the water dyum rather than just
make the water dyum rather than just ordinary water then why wouldn't it interfere with mitochondrial function it makes sense to me that the neutrons I mean we can tolerate a certain amount of them but that the neutron enriched water the dyum water does not move as readily as we're going to call it h3o without the neutron I have not verified that that essential atomic weight change is the mechanism that interferes with mitochondrial function and yet the hypothesis makes sense to me so since then I've been listening to more Jack and I think my intuitions here are pretty good the dyum depleted water AIDS the mitochondria in their essential charge transport function by giving it less work to do now if you have healthy mitochondria now we're moving to the second level if you have healthy mitochondria most people in the United States don't the healthy mitochondria can probably handle some of the extra work that is associated with the dyum why don't we have healthy mitochondria in the United States there are three routes to mitochondrial injury one of them is you get your light messed up poor light hygiene this is because mitochondria produce their own melatonin and I had no idea about this until I had a conversation with uh Joe marola and he's walking on the beach and he's like you know I'm not really into cold exposure I don't think you can ever talk me into one of these ice baths and of
me into one of these ice baths and of course inside I'm crushed because he's he's legendary you know in the biohacking world and he's just not into it he says I want to talk about melatonin and mitochondria instead if Joe MCA wants to talk about it I'm going to write it down he says did you know they make their own melatonin I had no idea melatonin are what scavenge up those extra reactive oxygen species in the mitochondria when the mitochondri are really working hard they will produce R the Melatonin donate an electron to the the r and they deactivate the Ross when you run out of melatonin in your mitochondria those Ros are going to go somewhere else and it is the mitocondrial DNA they attack the DNA grab an electron over there damage the mitochondrial DNA most people don't know this but mitochondria have their own DNA I didn't learn that in ninth grade biology you I learned about sexual reproduction and the nucleus and you get this from your dad and this from your mom and blah blah mitochondrial DNA are inherited exclusively under ordinary circumstances along the Eternal line only from your mother and it means they're not subject to the same rate of mutation and evolution as the DNA in the nucleus you and I have essentially the same mitochondrial DNA as Eve and that's just a first approximation but they don't move as quickly Through Time change as much and you can injure them if you don't give them the right light hygiene to produce the Melatonin that protects them that's one the second one is seed oils that's why I'm always
is seed oils that's why I'm always wearing these glasses I know uh I mean usually not in the daytime but I started wearing them recently under these lights it's the bright lights yeah and uh I find I'm much more relaxed during the interviews I'm probably like not producing cortisol and I start making a little melatone and I get pretty chill I'm not too worried about plus you're not blurry cuz these are my Rx glasses so without them I can't catch the micro Expressions you know the uh the blue light during the day doesn't bother me supposed to exactly but shut it down at night so that you can get your melatonin right but the second one is seed oils um you can metabolize seed oils and when you're burning them for energy um it sort of makes sense but most people don't know that the membranes in your body they're made out of lipids and so you eat fats and they become not just part of your fat tissue for energy but they become part of the cell membrane including the membrane on the mitochondria organel the mitochondria are called organal because they're an organ within the cells of your body a brown fat cell might have thousands of mitochondria each with their own DNA bone cells have mitochondria red blood cells not so much but all of the cells that rely upon mitochondria for this energy conversion role those mitochondria have their own membranes and those membranes just like every other is made of phospholipids you give your lip your body the wrong kind of lipid and it makes the wrong kind of membrane this upsets the the transport
membrane this upsets the the transport of charge and the metabolic substrates in and out of the mitochondria because the phospholipids aren't structured the way they're supposed to be seed oils are a second route to mitochondrial mitochondrial damage and the third one is carbohydrates without a break you can have the ice cream you can it's a hormetic stressor that Sugar your mitochondria is like what are you doing to us Luke and you can say to your hey toughen up for a night you know because the reactive oxygen species will also stimulate mofas and mitobiogenesis when the mitochondria work too hard they say hey we got to get rid of some of these damaged mitochondria we got to make new mitochondria so the mitoi is getting rid of the damaged one and the mitobiogenesis is the creating new ones and they will choose those with the best DNA to replicate you want to have a sugary snack once indulge and then give your mitochondria a break and that means intermittent fasting or it means ketogenic diet move yourself into fat metabolism this is like recovering from a tough workout so the ice cream could be a tough workout for your mitochondria and then you do some fasting you go ketogenic and you do the mitop fasia the mitobiogenesis they come back stronger which is what hormesis is supposed to do but we don't do that in the United States the dietitians are telling us eat lots of small meals which is the stupidest thing that you can do but I'm
stupidest thing that you can do but I'm getting this from the American diabetic Association that's the third thing I want to talk about carbohydrates without a break will def will cause defects in your mitochondria from which they will not recover until you adopt a ketogenic diet or intermittent fasting and why does ketosis have such a bad reputation it is because of what people like the American diabetic Association the dietitians and nutritionists have taught us my son was 6 years old when he was diagnosed with diabetes and I didn't know what was going on I thought he had the flu I was giving him orange juice cuz that's what my mother gave me and of course he got worse instead of better this was December and it was after Christmas and you know we have sweets at Christmas I mean the kids are young and what did I even know about metabolism at the time and he's sick so my wife wife finally calls our pediatrician and he was our nextdoor neighbor he knew my kids really well and she says you know he's got a little great fever and he has no energy and John says he's probably sick you know give him a few days my wife says and he's peeing the bed all the time John says meet me in the hospital right away what well your son has diabetes and your life is going to change I had no idea and I felt such ashamed of myself because I'm supposed to be you know the parent who protects and cares for the child and I was doing it all wrong
child and I was doing it all wrong giving him orange juice we live practically across the street from the hospital I carried my son there we're not going to do car seats and belts and things like that they admitted him right away he was in keto acidosis because a type 1 diabetic cannot metabolize blood sugar they pee it all out and my son the pH of his blood has changed changed because his Ketone levels were so high that's why it's called keto acidosis they put him right in the Pediatric ICU and then John explained it to me um but not even though he's a friend and a neighbor his bedside manner pretty abrupt Luke he handed me an orange he handed me a syringe he said nobody's leaving this hospital until you figure these things out meanwhile they put my son on an insulin drip and I was like watching him come back to life like the color came back the tone the you could see that he was no longer dehydrated because the insulin is taking glucose from his bloodstream and transporting it into his cell where it can reach his mitochondria and now he doesn't need to make that many ketones ketones have a bad reputation because in type 1 diabetics keto acidosis can be fatal he was hours away from a coma and he has to very carefully manage his blood sugars and his insulin levels so he doesn't slip back into keto acidosis ever but that doesn't happen to you and I because
that doesn't happen to you and I because we have working pancreas because we make our own insulin we don't go into keto acidosis the dangers that my son faces give ketosis a bad reputation but it's not deserved except for those extreme cases of type 1 diabetics that no longer make insulin so let's not treat you or me just like we wouldn't in inject insulin into ourselves we are not going to get worried about the keto acidosis in which we will never slip ketosis is a healthy normal metabolic state for people who make insulin like you and I do and it's something for my son to be very careful with which is why he checks his blood he's now got a continuous glucose monitor you can even get a continuous Ketone monitor but something very similar happened with my son he never wanted to go back to that hospital again and he didn't make me promise he's been back but not for diabetes you know he's been back you know for baseball injuries and things like that he just said I think we can do it at home Dad and the American Diabetes Association says no you can't the the dietitians whom he met with and the endocrinologist said no you can't Luke they were all wrong they were so wrong they were full of crap they gave us such bad advice that this was my first sort of introduction into don't trust a word that institutional medicine is telling you when he got a fever he would pop positive for ketones again because the the body knows what to do when it's
the body knows what to do when it's fighting an affection the immune system is very stimulated and of course he lost his appetite and he said I don't want to go to the hospital just like they even though they tell us that's what you're supposed to do can't you figure this out Dad yeah we can drip you insulin we don't have to like put you into an insulin reaction you don't have to eat we can monitor these things if we're really careful about it and he had never gone back to the ER for diabetes since because I had to learn everything about the Atkin diet about ketones about insulin about metabolism it was the beginning of my Jour it prepared me to learn about ice baths and cancer and ketones but it didn't send me all the way to what you might call the dark side you know when the reports of covid first came out I thought it was the big one it was AJ who said no it's not it I've looked at the data and it is all one trumped up propaganda scheme meant to scare you and now I don't believe a word of it I don't believe the American diabetics Association I don't believe the FDA I don't believe Tony pouchy I don't believe anyone who pay whose job it is to tell me what to do with my body now I got to find out for myself like I did with my son like I did with AJ like I'm trying to help people do by sharing these experiences these case studies and the research epic I'm glad you've
research epic I'm glad you've got me going on on these rants yeah if you haven't noticed in the past four years that big Pharma doesn't have an interest in promoting Health then you're not listening to podcasts like this one when it comes to real Wellness sometimes traditional interventions are still the best that's why I've been a fan of this company Shen Blossom for years with a deep respect for nature Shen Blossom is committed to your health providing some of the most Innovative and skillfully crafted herbal extract and traditional foods that are typically not available to the general public they offer traditional saki extracts Japanese skincare products and one-of - a-kind herbal formulas one of my favorites that I've been using for years is their green MSM and since MSM enhances the absorption of other nutrients they got the genius idea to add a broad spectrum of greens from plants and sea vegetables plus tonic and purifying herbs I've never found anything quite like it you'll find all that and much more at Shen blossom. com and make sure to use the code Luke to save 10% off that's s h n b l o SS o m Shen blossom. com oh and don't forget their delicious food too I am crazy about their Nori spring spr Le and toasted sesame oil honestly you have to taste it to really appreciate how much richer and flavorful it is than the oil you're used to from the store so again that Shen blossom. com and your code is Luke I mean there's always uh a
code is Luke I mean there's always uh a light side to the dark times we go through right it's like think of the number of people I'm sure you've contemplated this that you've been able to help and continue to be able to help and and will continue to help as a result of going through that you know I love love I love people like you that um have the skill of transmutation and can turn something super shitty into something amazing thanks Luke that's what we're going for yeah because it's like you you're either victimized by these systems these these inept or corrupt institutions which I'm sure are full of well-meaning people in most cases um or else you take responsibility to educate yourself yeah you know and that's the path that I've I've chosen you know Alice and I just went the other day and got this thing um called the peruo scan this full body diagnostic MRI which I heard about a couple years ago and I didn't want to do it because I was afraid of the radiation and the contrast which is full of dyum by the way Jack Cruz told me never get contrast and I was like okay but anyway I don't think he's wrong maybe there's some emergency circumstance or something but um I'm with him on that yeah I mean you know if you suspect to have a brain tumor or something that's maybe no way to avoid it but anyway we went and did this and it was so empowering you know I didn't need a prescription I didn't need to go see a general practitioner I just like went on a website booked it five days later I have like a perfect blueprint of my entire body and what was interesting about it was of course I was hoping it didn't find anything that I didn't know about
find anything that I didn't know about right and it didn't every single thing that it picked up were things that I already know and I'm already working on through my own you know just kind of um journey of keeping myself healthy so I'm looking forward forward to emerging practitioners and modalities like that that make it easier for people like you to do what you did right where we don't have to be dependent on that centralized system and we can each become our own Sovereign doctors of ourselves and our family you know and um and be willing to accept the consequences of that too right and that's the thing when you interface with the medical system you sign all these waivers that say Hey if this goes terribly you have no uh liability yeah versus working on something yourself you go okay I understand I'm I'm kind of going off the reservation here but I'm I'm willing to accept the consequences of my experimentation um and at least then there's only myself to blame and not someone else who has no no accountability so much responsibility the potential for regret it's empowering though you and that's the other side yep when um I was ready to start a family and my wife was pregnant I called my aunt a is Penny simpkin uh she's my mother's sister and she started an organization called douas of North America now she's a physical therapist but she'd been working with pregnant women and this really all she wanted to do this concept of the Doula when a woman is in the throws of childbirth it is not a good time to ask
childbirth it is not a good time to ask her if she wants to use a fetal monitor or are you ready for an epidor she her decision-making capacities are compromised to say the least and and so my Aunt Penny she says have a birth plan and a birth plan is not a premonition it is under what circumstances would you do this it's an exploration of all the Alternatives and saying what are your values what do you you know now you're making informed trade-off decisions and what would cause you to change your mind about whatever birth you're fantasizing about so informative and then she said have aulla aulla is not a midwife and not a doctor but adulla is an advocate for the patient and I said well I'm the dad you know why can't I be adulla well you can read the books here's the workshop you can get certified if you want I'll train you of course you can be a it's a very natural role for a dad but because doulas are childbirth we often associate them with a very female kind of thing and you maybe you want an experienced woman who's been through child birth no I was my wife's Doula um and then I said well shoot my diabetic son needs a doula everybody who goes to a hospital needs a doula not for childbirth but you mentioned the brain tumor A friend of mine has a brain tumor and the irony is he's a neuroscientist but when he's talking with his doctors his judgment is compromised he needs an advocate that understands his values he
advocate that understands his values he needs a plan that he's worked out in a you know sort of a calmer moment when would you do this that Doula is there because you've thought about things ahead of time and the Doula has the clarity of thinking and judgment to make the decisions that you've greed upon for you everything in our Health Care system is meant to disempower and intimidate the patient might say oh is there a test we can do well you need a referral for the test and then we have to have it approved by your HMO and see if you're Insurance Company this is your deductible and all these the whole apparatus is meant to communicate to the patient that's not your decision there are four other people who have to approve that before you get that information and by the time you know they they put you let you put your own clothes back on you're like I guess I'm not in charge I guess all these other people are in charge and part of this is generational I remember my father um he was saying you know was before he could no longer fly he came out to Thanksgiving he said well I've got three different kinds of Cancers and I guess it's just a matter of time before one of them gets me my father was a diagnosed narcissist and something about Thanksgiving had to be all about him and his cancer which is sort of okay but I said well gez Dad what are you going to do he goes that's not my problem so this is your cancer he goes nope that's my doctors to figure out my dad's old maybe that's just the
out my dad's old maybe that's just the way it was it's not the way it's for me it is not my health is not my Physician's problem it's not my insurance company's problem it's not my employer problem it's certainly not my politician problem it is my problem and the difficulty of sometimes there really are victims out there you know but the difficulty of playing in the victim Olympics that seems so popular right now is it doesn't do you any good what choice do you have but to say I'm going to try everything that makes sense to me until I figured this out and this is why I don't want to go back on covid I don't want to reminisce about the lockdowns because there were so many injustices and I do want to learn the lessons from that that will help us promulgate the policies that Ure it never happens again but it is not going to help the people who are vaccine injured it is not going to help the people who are starting to have that moment of hey wait a second what did I do uh to my children or to myself or to what were the misconceptions that now the regrets that I have would prompt me to change my mind I want to empower people to take charge of their own health to decide for themselves what the right sort of experiments are to run what kind of health condition do they want to be in and so in that respect I'm very forward-looking and I think my my background as an engineer is terrific
background as an engineer is terrific what are the Technologies what are the machines that we can build that Empower you rather than how am I going to go inside your body and change you up in ways that you don't understand beautiful man well said thanks I had no idea we were going to go in that direction I love it you reminded me of a funny experience I had about a month ago Allison came down with a cold or something and so it persisted for quite a few days maybe maybe over a week and you know if you get a week two weeks in it's like all right I I might you know take one for the team and go get some antibiotics or something you know and so uh it's always last for Resort I think for both of us but at one point we're just like all right this isn't going away through all of the things we're throwing at it so we went down to the little local urgent care place just to get some tests first thing of course is they're like they're really pushing for uh the PCR test you know I'm like I'm sitting in there I've been so out of that world for so I'm looking at the doctor I'm like you guys are still doing that right I'm like what so anyway she refuses that and you know we're trying to determine is it a bacterial in ction yada yada and then so he basically just threw his hands up and you know cuz she wouldn't take any of the things he was suggesting or the tests he was suggesting and then uh Allison and her innocence it was so cute to me because I already knew what the answer was going to be she went what about like things like you know should I take some vitamin C or maybe go out and get some more sun and he looked her straight in the face he's a nice guy you know I mean he's just indoctrinated into his into that
just indoctrinated into his into that model and he looks straight in her face he goes well I mean there's no scientific data to support that either of those would U you know be helpful at all but if it makes you feel better go ahead and I'm glad he said the last part I mean I might be giving him a little might adding that I probably am just to you know be a bit diplomatic but we walked out of there and you know Allison isn't in all this biohacking stuff she's on a different Channel she's got her own way of working through life that works for her beautifully um but even she noticed she was like what the [__] was that yeah there's no evidence to support the idea that more sunshine and vitamin d and vitamin C could be helpful if you have some kind of an infection or a cold it's just crazy and I was like give me my 60 bucks back you you guys are idiots and and it's so often the case that that's the kind of experience that that I have which is why I'm so hesitant to even interface with that World um you know unless I I like to say if I fall off the roof and break my neck don't give me as Wanda like take me to you know the emergency room right du we all kind of know that acute care is uh best served by professionals that are trained to do so but we do it really well yeah and it's great I mean I'm very grateful for that but it's just the system itself but anyway I could go on on this phrase there is no evidence has become a catch phrase right I know but it goes deeper than that the um the phrase there's no evidence was used by
phrase there's no evidence was used by fouchy to suppress studies that he could have funded in a scientifically curious mind the phrase there's no evidence should be motivation to run a study to say oh well that's great you know let's let's get some evidence we're scientists here let's formulate some hypothesis but it was used by fouchy to suppress the things that people wanted to try first during AIDS and then during covid to say well there's no evidence was twisted around to mean that we shouldn't do it and he's not going to fund it he was the one suppressing the studies that would have created the evidence that strip away this excuse there's no evidence so this phrase which should be an expression of scientific Curiosity has now become weaponized against the truth and now every time I hear it out of a guy who's you know he's an urgent care doctor and he's probably trying to help people in exactly the way the medical school trained him to help people but it also trained him to say there's no evidence in this weaponized way that suppresses people from doing things that would otherwise be harmless get some sunshine take a little that's the one that got me just like there's no evidence that the sunshine is good for you it's like how do you think we're alive you know what I mean it's like how do you think every living thing on the planet is here it's like if there's oh my God it's just mindboggling there's no rebuttal to anyone who says there's no evidence is in willful denial of
evidence is in willful denial of whatever conversation you're trying to have and so I move on but not without that little sense of tragedy that there's no evidence has been fabricated to suppress yes indeed uh back to cold therapy so I remember that yeah so a uh first I want to say and I've told you this before kudos for making the most beautiful and bulletproof ice baths ever I know there's you know there's a lot of Brands emerging in this space now and I'm I'm glad I mean I think you probably share your the same view uh that there's no such thing as competition other than with yourself right other people come out with a plastic ice bath it's a third of the price or whatever you're great let's make ours better but I got to say the I'm on my second one now and the first one I had which was when I graduated from my Sear's chess freezer um sat here in the backyard for about 2 years in grueling Texas heat and cold cuz we had a couple real cold winter um and that mother effer took a licking and keep on ticking like you could not kill that freaking ice bath reliably cold and with the ozone uh sanitation system that you so wisely put in there um always perfectly clean I don't even know if I ever changed the water the only thing that happened to the old one cuz when I got it it was used is the exterior aesthetically took a hit from the weather it was pretty rough yeah so you know I'm I'm going to admit I would go in the backyard like I wish that
go in the backyard like I wish that thing was a little nicer looking cuz it's kind of the show piece you know in the backyard here but I didn't really care cuz it you know it still worked and that was the point um so whatever you did with your engineering background good job because that thing is totally indestructible now the new one I have is also indestructible on the outside so I'm just in love with the and the stainless steel in I mean it's just like a pristine machine I'm so glad now one of the cool things that I discovered when I had the the last mod model was when I did some EMF testing over here when we were you know doing the Faraday paint and all the stuff on the house I was making some videos showing people how to test for EMF and how to miate Hoy and so Brian Hoyer we're just testing all my Technologies in the house to see what you know might be good for you but also have really high EMF and sometimes you just can't avoid EMF with technology so it's like a cost to benefit ratio and that's kind of the metric by which I decide to use something on a regular basis or not I mean you can land on a PM mat it's got a lot of EMF but is the benefit worth it so I said let's go test the ice bath I'm really curious and for starters it was producing no uh detectable EMF but the interesting thing that was super cool is when he tested the the grounding potential or the DC current of the water because of the way you guys grounded it you're getting like Ultra Ultra grounded in there yeah which is super cool um you're getting you know those uh what is it the negative electrons or is the positive I forget the Earth is slightly negatively charged
the Earth is slightly negatively charged you're getting a dcurrent yeah exactly right so it's like when you go out Barefoot you're grounding many people know this is really good for you uh when you're in that thing you're like Ultra grounded so that's one thing I was like cool no wonder it feels so freaking good that's on purpose is it yeah oh it's amazing cuz I had no idea I was like oh I hope this doesn't test poorly you never know right then the other thing is and this is one question I've had for you recently sometimes I'll run the ozone in there I don't keep it on all the time but if it starts to get a little murky I crank the ozone up and so sometimes I might forget for a few hours or even overnight and I get in and it's all bubbly it's like milky water it's so full of ozone is there any evidence to support any benefits of being in ozonated water like if you went in an ozone sauna or something yeah but our ozone concentrations are way lower than what the clinical studies use so ozonated oil will help heal wounds faster um and there's ozone baths that you can use too but you don't stay in a Morosco long enough to really get the the ozone benefit from the bath now ozone is wonderful good for your skin it's a natural disinfectant there's no chlorine there's no halogens so we're always going to use ozone because we don't want to subject you or other people to unhealthy disinfectants and is there benefit to having all that ozone at these low Doses and exposure times probably not the big benefit is
times probably not the big benefit is that there's no harm you know in your pool you've got to add chlorine because the Board of Health requires you to do it or the pool is so big and the ozone won't create enough residual I've been at war with our pool guy for two and a half years I don't blame you and I think I I said uh well you could call Michael L at simply 03 he now has this giant ozone generator but it's still not going to do your whole pool because the the halflife or let me put it differently ozone is unstable and it will decompose just all on its own in water and that relates to temperature the warmer the water the more quickly the ozone decomposes so you can get good disinfection right at the point of ozone injection and then you have nothing no residual ozone in the pool chlorine has a residual chlorine will protect the pool as well as the point of injection now the mor Co is small enough and we're throwing enough ozone in there and it is cold enough that it slows down the decomposition of ozone you can protect the entire bath because of the size and the temperature with just the ozone injection that we have this is wonderful but you're not going to stay in there for 40 please don't stay in there for 45 minutes you know to really get the ozone benefit okay got it okay then um have any of your customers other than and me experimented with the coherence of the water one thing I did um a couple
of the water one thing I did um a couple years ago when I got this um analemma wand it's a water structuring wand that's made of crystallin glass and it's got this mother water in it and so you you know you stir your drinking water with it and so on and I thought huh well I wonder what would happen if I you know were to structure the water in the ice bath so I went out there and um and stirred it up for quite quite a few minutes if if it's a glass of water you only need it 30 seconds but I went out there for probably 5 minutes and twirled it all around put the lid on came back the next day and the ice that formed on the bottom that's the way your baths work for those that don't know it actually makes ice which is another thing that makes it super dope cuz I like being cocooned in the ice it's like a it's an added I don't know kind of tactile experience it's not just there for Instagram yeah so the ice floats up and it made these beautiful like snowflake Crystal designs in the ice after I structured it I was like I'm convinced now like I mean I believe the analemma guys I interviewed them and I was like they seem very smart and and high integrity so I'm like I'm just going to take their you know um you know their claims at face value but when I did that I was like okay this is like undisputable evidence that the nature of the water changed because the ice looked very different than it ever had so then I took it to the next level and I got the whole house analemma structuring unit which goes you know in the garage where the plumbing is and so when I fill up the Morosco now I do it with this highly filtered water from you know like our
filtered water from you know like our drinking water so I had my guy make a like a SP it in the garage so I have like that water if I want to water special plants or fill up the tub or the pool or whatever and so now the only water that goes in there is super filtered and structured and there's something different about the experience of getting in that water even when people get in our pool go God this feels really good I'm like I could never explain it to them cuz it just sounds too crazy but have do you have you or anyone you know played around with you know structuring the water making coherent water just to add another level of benefit the first person am I yeah to tell me that they have structured the water inside their Morosco and you know I've read about structured water and I get it and I always thought that it's most important in the very small volumes that you know exist in our body uh there's the red blood cells the white blood cells and then there's the plasma you know that moves through I'm like well the plasma is also water and you know within our blood vessels it could be structured I've always kind of poo pooed structured water at this kind of chemical engineering scale except ice ice is is so damn structured you know it's a solid Crystal and so if you appreciate the beauty of an Ice Crystal you got to appreciate the way that water can be structured in the liquid phase too but this experiment that you're telling me about uh would have been incredulous to I never would have hypothesized anything like that you know
hypothesized anything like that you know yeah well I mean you know to be fair you'd have to fill the ice bath freeze it make the ice observe it empty it out put the structured water in but then you also have the uh you know kind of the placebo effect of the intentionality behind it when you get to the quantum realm it's like well if I believe the crystals are going to look different hard enough they probably will you know so it gets crazy but anyway that was another thing um the next thing I want to ask you is but on the other hand what does it harm you know like the the Bel I love the placebo effect is like the best thing ever cost you nothing it's free and look at this epicac I know yeah well I think part part of my experimentation with that is I just have such an intimate relationship with water and I see water as a living being and that might sound crazy to some people or people that are more um mechanistic in their worldview but I think that I'm made of water right and so the water my water is communicating with the water that I get in I mean I had Paul Czech over here the other day he has this whole routine with his cold plunge where he I mean he prays into the water he talks to the water I mean he has like a very deep relationship with it I would say mine is kind of pedestrian comparatively but when he shared some of his practices I thought oh man man wow that I could actually I thought I was already kind of in that and uh I was like wow I could actually step it up so part of it is more just in acknowledging
part of it is more just in acknowledging the gift that water provides and and wanting to treat it with reverence and respect and then I feel like it offers that back to me when I take my ice bath you know it's it's not just like H2O you know some inert clear liquid I mean it's like we're doing stuff together we're working together there's a Synergy in that relationship so that's one of the reasons um next thing I want to ask you is let's talk duration and temperature now years ago I think it was Jack Cruz it was probably the first guy I ever heard talking about deeper science of cold exposure and if I'm not mistaken and he could have changed his tune by now this is many years ago he was not that hung up on the temperature and said that if it was if the water was under 55 ° that you were going to derive the SE T benefit or the cold thermogenesis benefit and that if it was under 55 say it's 50 it might just take a little longer to get the benefits whereas if you have the water extremely cold as you're talking about you know 33 to 40 ° then 2 3 minutes gets the job done rather than trying to stay for five or eight or whatever so give us the scoop on temperature and duration in terms of thermodynamically that's the case um that is the lower the temperature the shorter the the duration you can achieve the same heat extraction from the body and when you're talking about cold thermogenesis when you're talking about a metabolism it's complex because a cold trained body will defend itself against
trained body will defend itself against the cold that's vasil constriction that's activation of the brown fat and so it might not surprise you that the armies of the world have spent a lot of money studying how soldiers respond to cold exposure and they haven't got it all figured out so if you only look at it from heat extraction you can say there's the body's capacity to produce heat defend itself against cold and then there's the temperature and the duration and for me that's boring like it's all good stuff and it's complex thermodynamically and we should be curious about it but it's very frustrating because people will say oh uh Professor Seager what's the optimal temperature what's the optimal duration nobody asks the the bodybuilders or the trainers what's the optimal number of reps and the optimal weight as and expects one single answer cold training in this way is analogous to weight training you can't just walk into the gym never having you know lifted a dumbbell in your life and say well what's the optimum because the optimum for you is different from the optimum for somebody else everybody starts in a different place so I want to get rid of this idea of optimum and if Jack Cruz isn't too hung up on it then uh kudos to him because I don't want anybody to be too hung up on it when you're starting out you go cold enough to gasp you go long enough to shiver and you know
long enough to shiver and you know you've done it right you're monitoring your body and if you get in and you feel that then you know it's cold enough because that's a nervous system reaction the thermal receptors on your skin have sent a signal to your hypothalamus and your hypothalamus you know deep in your brain is saying what the hell and that's what you're going for then you go long enough to shiver and the reason for that is because most people don't have any brown fat they can only do shivering cold thermogenesis not the non - Shivering so they've got to get their muscles going their muscles will shiver this is an indication that the body is responding to the cold by doing thermogenesis you probably already got the vasil constriction going that's really good for the blood vessels you're doing fine and it takes about 10 to 14 days to recruit if you're doing it every day to recruit Brown fat and to become acclimated to the cold in the grand scheme of things that's not a long time and then you're going to stop shivering it would take uh 6 minutes 10 minutes you know as you become cold acclimated at even colder temperatures for you to feel that shiver and so I say once you're cold acclimated don't worry about the shiver you know you're getting your brown fat oh that's good cuz I never shiver right but of course you don't Luke you're in there all the time do you feel that gas reflex well I think you're at 39 ° this morning I got to turn it down I'm going to go back out there when we're done I'm going to take you down to 35 and then was it at 39 it was at 39 when I was there yeah now it might be that um cuz
there yeah now it might be that um cuz off let me be honest I mean I don't get in and like ah this is like a nice hot tub I mean there's a moment of like resistance but I I don't yeah I can breathe deeply and slowly pretty much immediately after you are cold acclimated you got to get the temperature lower to continue to get that nervous system sort of like activate gas bre I know I thought I was a stud yeah well you are and I'm just telling you what's true of me okay okay and I want that fear I want that Activation so I'm running at 33 34 if there isn't ice in there it's not scaring me right when it gets up to like 40 I don't even need to somebody to tell me the temperature because if it's not lower than 39 it's just boring like I could be in there 10 minutes 12 minutes and it's fine but it's because I've reached a level I've probably done 2, 000 ice baths by now and I've reached a level of cold training where the Vaso constriction is on point the brown fat is on point the dive reflex is on point my own sort of mental the story I'm telling myself s is on point and so I got to get down into the low3s not metabolically metabolically I agree with everyone who says well there's no big metabolic benefits of you know going colder than 40 yeah psychological for me it's the nervous system that I'm trying
it's the nervous system that I'm trying to really push on when I go that cold and so you could say shoot if you and I had met this year you'd probably never even find moros because this is such a crowded space now there's everybody's trying to Rebrand some Chinese thing that's $ 300 on Alibaba and call it the latest ultimate revolution in Wi-Fi enabled Bluetooth controlled I hate it when they do that I know that's the first thing I look for when Brands reach out to me with their gadgets I'm like Bluetooth and like Bluetooth Wi-Fi I'm out we don't want it why you don't need it go turn the thing on like you don't have fingers I don't want my dishwasher talking to my phone okay I'm just going to hit a button but I'm a bit of a lite in that regard the point is it's such a crowded space that people look at Morosco and they say you know I know it's Luke's story's favorite but I don't want to spend 14, 000 and it makes sense cuz here's a $ 35, 000 inflatable Chinese Chiller thing and they saw a video about how that's the ultimate solution what they're forgetting is if it's not a metal tub it's not grounded and you can feel feel the difference even if you don't understand the difference your nervous system feels the difference your circulatory system feels the difference I've measured the difference in heart rate variability and systolic diastolic blood pressure but I don't have enough data to put an article out I need more people to report this kind of thing to me it's not grounded if it's plastic
me it's not grounded if it's plastic it's not grounded if it's acrylic and acrylic is sort of like the better Cho a little more expensive but the better choice when you buy one of those inflatable flexible plastic jobs that is so cheap and you say this is for my health I'm going to fill up the water so it can suck the phalates the bisphenol a the brominated flame retardant right out of that super flexible vinyl put it in the right nobody thinks about this and now I'm I'm the guy who's on the internet trashing the competition but for good reason I don't want you to break the bank I would rather that you like a stock tank or if it's got to be plastic get something that is hard plastic rather than the soft plastic because neither do I want you getting into a tub full of flame retardant and Fates and P Faz and all the other things that come with the when you open that new thing up and you say it's here it's arrived all the way from China and it smells like a new car that's because it's poisoning you and you will never morasco will never come out with one of these like super Cheapo things cuz I don't want to be responsible for poisoning my customers and so those people who have made it to know hour three of this podcast and they're like What's the coupon code how do I save the money I'm sorry that there's no free lunch uh we're expensive
there's no free lunch uh we're expensive and we're not for everybody and it's because I cannot sell something I'm not going to get into myself well I'm glad you mentioned a discount code cuz I wasn't looking at my notes and we actually have a really nice one here if you guys want to get one of these baths and you're so situated to do so you can go to Morosco forge. com and use the code Luke 500 to save 500 bucks thank you for that and we'll put that uh that link in the code in in the show description of course on the podcast app disclosure you get a percentage of everyone who uses that code wonderful thank you for introducing us to your audience wonderful I'm I'm all for that I mean I think that's the bad thing about podcast and affiliate marketing is that it's a reciprocal model where said brand gets a customer makes a few bucks person that researches and vets it aka me gets a couple bucks and more than anything The Listener viewer gets a discount and also doesn't have to spend the time vetting and researching themselves if they trust the person talking about it which I hope at this point people listening to to this show do I mean I yank [__] off my website all the time cuz I just I realize like there's something better or there's something inferior about it that makes the deficit of using it higher than the benefits you just reminded me about one product I'm thinking of right now I got to check on man because I call when
to check on man because I call when Brands approach me or when I find something on my own I comb their website and like man it's just I have a very strict kind of um approval process because a the karma uh that I believe is true I don't want to ever take a buck to hurt someone I'm just not playing that game ever and the other thing is my reputation depends on it right if I promote something and then someone finds out it's super shitty they're like oh well now we can't trust Luke CU he told me about this shitty thing so so it's I got an email from a customer I really value you know that trust and I value the relationships with brand it is your currency 100% the uh customer emailed me and he's a real fan big word of mouth he's probably helped us sell three other customers and he said Tom I saw this article you know it's in Forbes or something like that right uh and it's 10 best cold plunges in moroso's not in it and you know you really got to get on that how come you're not in it and I sent him the email that I got from the pr company that said we're doing an article we're going to place it in Forbes it's only 10, 000 I knew it 10 grand because this is the going rate and I sent him that and I'm like well that's cuz we didn't have the 10 grand to be named one of the 10 best and he goes what the the people are only starting to wake up to Native advertising to the way that whatever they thought traditional journalism with it's dead and buried and so everything they read online now is
so everything they read online now is bought and paid for it is sort of okay uh that we have affiliate marketing because either I got to pay Google to stuff Interruption ads in front of anyone who when the word cold comes up now I got to pay Google to follow you around the internet and put cookies on your you know browser so that you're reminded 12 times that the my brand or what and I hate it so I canceled all of our Google advertising uh we do a little bit on Instagram but we only plug the posts that lead you to science articles because I want you to know and it seems to be like it's finding the right people are you curious about multiple sclerosis and cold plune therapy turns out cold plune therapy is more effective than 17 FDA approved drugs that won't cure multiple sclerosis okay I want you to know I'm willing to pay 20 cents a click but I'd much rather pay people like you who have a reputation who have vetted it does it say it's the ultimate solution to anything then you know it's the same Chinese crap that everybody else is selling you're not going to see that on our website I would rather people use sort of luk story. com as a portal to find the information that you that because they don't know who to trust they can't trust Forbes they can't trust the Wall Street Journal or any of the other people who are liquidating their own reputations to try and make a buck now a good way to put it yeah I appreciate that thank
to put it yeah I appreciate that thank you um what about EX exercise and cold I remember I think it was Rhonda what's her name Dr Rhonda Patrick Yeah years ago uh I saw her doing a video about you know the sequence if you're going to do resistance training for example in cold therapy that because I used to do it after I would work out because I would never be sore right it just would nuke the lactic acid and I was like oh my God I just found the cure for ever being sore no matter how heavy you lift which obviously I don't do a lot of heavy and you can tell by my scny arms but at that time I was kind of in a workout phase and I was like okay and then interestingly I started doing my cold after I'd work out and it worked the same way I still was never sore from working out that's correct yeah you get the same effect the same recovery if you do the ice bath beforehand but here's what I found oh yeah I'm sorry when I started doing my ice bath before is what I meant to say then I would also not be sore yep but here's the wild thing that I've noticed is that for I mean for years now if if I do cold before I do any kind of resistance training I'm infinitely stronger like I can't even get tired you know like if I go in hot for example and try and do the ARX machine or something really difficult I get that like kind of lightheaded and your ears feel full of fluid and just almost want to puke it's like a really bad feeling if I do cold right before I'm just like nothing it's
I'm just like nothing it's crazy what is up with that uh this is your mitochondria again remember when I said when they're overworked they create the reactive oxygen okay fatigue is your body's defense mechanism against mitochondrial damage and so your muscles start to heat up they start producing reactive oxygen species the melatonin in the mitochondria is getting consumed and your body knows they're like hey if you push this too far you're going to damage your mitochondria now if you're David goggin somehow you have like overcome all those fatigue signals and you're able to do more that's not me however when you extract that heat from the body and you keep the muscles cool oh my God you get this huge Peak power perform this is your mitochondria are able to do so much more work they don't get fatigued and they get a boost and Peak power output is what I mean to say now how do we know this because Craig heler at Stanford University has measured it he took people both amateurs uh untrained individuals and professional athletes and he brought them into his lab at Stanford and he said here's what we're going to do you're going to do a normal set and then you're going to put your hands into this device that I've invented ordinarily if the Palms get cold Vaso constriction will eliminate the blood circulation to conserve the heat inside the body you won't lose much more heat out of your palms but heler created a vacuum that
palms but heler created a vacuum that sucks the blood into the hands overcomes the Vaso constriction and it's cold so it removes the heat from the Palms now I just put you in an ice bath and I've been to ARX and it was at ARX that people first started reporting to me the phenomena of precooling hel's research is per cooling heat extraction improves mitochondrial performance and delays fatigue and not by a little by a lot it's like two times as many pull-ups in untrained athletes six times as many pull-ups and trained athletes the endurance seems to be really dramatic but also the peak moves up by 203% well ARX has these tricked out computer driven you know constant displacement machine they can integrate your whole power curve and stuff like that so they called me up and said our guys are going in the morasco and then they're getting in the machine and we're getting 25 30% boost what is going on that's precooling rather than between sets and it's the same effect you're keeping the mitochondria cool now thermodynamically this is not correct but it's got you store cool in the muscles cool can't exactly be stored that way but you understand what I mean now that the mitochondria are getting revved up in the exercise they're not getting fatigued because they're not yet getting hot now there's a whole body of research on exercise in the Heat and you're right it's terrible Olympic athletes uh professional football
athletes uh professional football players everybody who knows that they're going to go someplace hot tries to acclimate to the heat ahead of time so especially in the Endurance Sports so that they can go longer during their competition there's less research on this per Cooling and this precooling effect however the people who are subject to the worst heat are the Formula 1 drivers and I didn't realize this until I started talking to a guy who's a customer and is a huge Formula 1 fan they had the uh the Vegas Grand Prix right where do they put these Formula 1 races well they put them in hot places and you're inside this tiny little you know car for what 2 and 1 half hours or something like this you got your flame retardant suit you know how they air condition those cars they don't wow CU they can't carry air conditioning equipment in the formul so those guys pretty cool and it buys them a little time before they get overheated so we have a customer he's posted about this BJ Baldwin and he's one of these off-road you know 4x4 he does the DAR and I get all excited because now I know a little something about formula and driver and I'm talking to BJ and I'm like hey you know about the whole pre-cooling thing in these F1 guys do it and BJ says well call me when they're Racing for 24 straight hours through the Sahara Desert and then you know let's see whether the know BJ loves his ice bath right but the
know BJ loves his ice bath right but the precooling effect only lasts for a little while your body will eventually heat up you and me we're not working out for two straight hours you know more like 15 minutes right right and we feel great we're like I'm amazing you know I went up to Seattle uh up to span is there and this is a new outfit and they will do like a Comprehensive Health assessment and they said look we want to have you on the podcast and we can either pay for your plane ticket or we can give you a complimentary Health well heck I want the health assessment you know and they're putting me through the wall sit and the grip strength and then how many push-ups can you do and the dexa scan and Luke I'm 28% body fat which is obese and I'm 58 years old and I go through all these things and actually looks really good there's no like indication of liver fat there's no indication of plaque build up and I have all these wonderful markers of metabolic Health they tested my you know lipid panel my triglyceride to HDL ratio which is an indication of insulin sensitivity it's like 0. 6 which is amazingly healthy but then I had to do the V2 Max test 28 I thought I was going to throw up in the max or in The Mask you know and so I had to get off that damn treadmill it's 28 millit per kilogram
treadmill it's 28 millit per kilogram per minute if I'm remembering the units correctly and I texted that to AJ and I said well I did okay you know on the the grip and I did really well on the broad jump and 28 on V2 Max and Nick looked kind of disappointed Nick is the guy who takes me through all this stuff and he didn't praise me like he did for you know the Hang she goes that's because 28 is poor and you're going to die within 7 years like what what are you talking about she goes at your age you should be like 35 or you know whatever uh she said this is a terrible V2 Max rating and it makes sense since you never do any cardio I sat down with the doctor at optis pan and he said I can't figure you out why he says well your lipid panel looks great all the ultrasounds we've done look great you you have pretty good strength measures you know we look at your teeth and you're doing really well on all these if I get somebody with your body composition and a V2 Max like you I usually see liver fat I see uh plaque in the arteries I see evidence of metabolic dysfunction and I can't figure out why I don't see all those signs in you and I'm like wow it must be the ice bath and he says the what and so now we have this whole it was practically another podcast conversation about how the ice bath will
conversation about how the ice bath will improve insulin sensitivity it will improve all the metabolic markers it will correct metabolic dysfunction but what it will not do for you is give you the cardio endurance that I don't have when should you exercise after your ice bath and so let me go another step we're going to trip will stack this first do your ice bath then do your exercise then do your Sona because Sona is a cardiac mimic you get in there and your heart rate is going to go up it will be a workout for your cardiovascular system and it will help your muscles recover wait so did I get the order on my shirt right I can't read it from a I got to get you in it says breathe which is always good advice oh breath work ice and now we got to get you a new shirt it's got to be ice bath exercise SAA and then breathe the whole freaking that's funny cuz I I made this shirt with the order that I just intuitively typically do which I get my sauna space on it for like 20 minutes just sweat my ass off then I go cool off in the ice bath and then you know and so on well that's pretty good um and often times I'll do uh like circuits right like I'll get hot cold I mean you want that's the way the if anyone wants a natural high I mean there is if your mood is Jack of I mean for me and many people I know there is nothing that will put you in an improved mental emotional
put you in an improved mental emotional state than just getting hot and cold a few times it's crazy that's what I used to do when I was a little kid I go to hot springs and then jump in the cold pool or in a cold body of water and call her out or whatever and I always remember that just how high I would get kids know yeah um on the exercise thing the thing I remembered too about um that Ronda Patrick was talking about all these years ago was if you say lift weights and then you do your ice bath afterward that you're shunting the INF if you're trying to gain muscle mass you're shunting the inflammation that's going to instigate the muscle mass is that still valid yeah huberman's pretty good on this he says wait four hours it's good advice but why would you I mean in my mind do the ice bath first and um I don't listen to Ronda Patrick anymore I was disappointed in her views on on covid and Vac I think she lost a lot of people when she went on Rogan and I don't know they must have paid her a lot of money or something I I had the same reaction and I don't know her and I've never talked to her I don't know this for the fact but I just looking at she's sold out you know and it's an unfair accusation but she was way wrong and then she went on HUB and she said well we didn't know things and the uncertainty and she kind of backpedal to her credit but that's [__] we did know you read the fiser report you would know and I thought it was the responsibility of somebody like Ronda who has credal and PhD to do this reading and to to communicate the data for people of course there were things
for people of course there were things we didn't know but when they started vaccinating children like they way crossed there was no reason there was no data driven and as a matter of fact the opposite was true and so there's some people that I just sort of wrote off and that doesn't mean they're wrong about everything I I get it yeah you know in uh in mid 2020 I got an email from PR firm uh inviting me to get paid to promote the fizer vaccine I did not which was hilarious because I'm like you had to go on my website to get my email yeah like you can look at my website for five minutes and no I'm not on your team right it's pretty obvious and I was very vocal early 2020 I was like not not about it um but what was interesting about that obviously I wasn't going to do that because I you know I would rather I don't know there's I'd rather have my toenails pulled out while getting a root canal than hurt people in that way um knowingly right but what was interesting is I thought wow cuz I saw a lot and I'm not saying she she took money to do that she may was just misinformed or whatever but I was also shocked by the number of people in the wellness space and then even in spiritual circles yoga teachers and things like that the amount of people that were promoting that um and it made a lot of sense after I got that invitation and I don't know how much they were willing to pay me it could have been a sizable chunk of change yeah and after I got that I
change yeah and after I got that I thought oh I'm not the I was I'm not even that well known and they came after me so imagine these people that have really big platforms much bigger than mine I I sense that uh many people you know maybe they didn't realize how bad it was at that time like yeah I'll take the money so you never know you know I would never accuse anyone of doing that but the the climate was rich to like make a few bucks to promote those those products you know I just I thought I was shocked and it took I wanted to like send a really smart ass response you know and just eviscerate them then You' feel smug yeah for a second self-righteous enjoyment that's very temporary so I just you know deleted the email back in 2020 uh dell bigtree invited me to be on a show because in the throws of the lockdowns so many people just went quiet you know no matter what their reputation was was there're like well I don't want to comment and that wasn't me I was out there like mouth and off about a lot of stuff I didn't really know about but there were a few things that I was that were super important and that I was right about so Dell he at that time he didn't have a lot of Faculty on his show and he said you know come on and I said uh I'll do it but under no circumstances can we talk about the vaccines you you people seem like a bunch of nutcases and I you know I just don't want to get into that and I don't know he said it's no problem you know we'll talk about resilience we'll talk about lockdowns we'll talk about about whatever you want to talk about and so we did a show and I'm embarrassed by some of the things cuz I was naive I was embarrassed by some of the things I didn't know but I
some of the things I didn't know but I had a long conversation with this producer and I said so what is it with you in the vaccines and he said I have two vaccine injured sons and I said what does that mean it means that they got the vaccine and the medical doctors diagnosed them as vaccine injured they didn't have autism before their vaccine injury and they do have autism now and I saidoh well um AJ has an autistic daughter and I only know a little bit about that experience through her and she goes and Patrick says I can't tell you that vaccines cause autism or that I don't all I can do is tell you this has been my experience and a switch went off in my head you cannot deny someone's experience with some study because they weren't in that study and so I started doing more reading I start I met with Aaron Siri who happens to live in Scottdale he said you should read this you should take a look at that and I was reading it as a scientist and man Rogan had that great quip he goes uh before covid I would have told you that vaccines were the greatest invention in history now I don't think we even went to the moon you know and how it goes right the same kind of epiphany I'm like I don't want a religious exemption from the max I want a s exemption only they don't give those out so it was Dell big tree's producer that taught me to really look instead of to just kind of sort out and maybe piece
just kind of sort out and maybe piece things together at the margins was wonderful I know I got a lot more out of that appearance than Del big tree ever he's a great guy we went boating with him and a couple friends our friend Micah who's also my chiropractor I went to see this morning shout out to Michael Pitman if anyone needs a good chiropractor in Lakeway don't know if you know the name of his business this thing it's Lakeway Chiropractic anyway he's awesome and we were out there listening to ACDC just cruising around the lake it was fun just seeing Dell out there with his kids you know he's a beast on that whatever the tubing I guess you call it tubing yeah it's like damn this guy's a couple years older than me and he's he's in it to win it great guy former guest on the show um which we'll link to in the show notes please Jared Del big tree that was I interviewed him just about vaccines even like a couple years before the uh planemic and and he he had a lot of good data at that point too he's a real fighter uh what about getting your skull and or face in the cold water I intuitively do that I I dunk my head in and hold my breath and just keep like the top of my dome in the water and then I take a breath and I hold my face in and I just kind of meditate in the water look at my third eye I derive a lot of benefit from getting both my face and my head cold what I don't enjoy is what many of the the real badasses of cold therapy do they get in plug their nose and lean backwards under the water I hate that it feels like I'm being waterboarded so I just I don't do it and I thought well there must be something to that so I found my own little way to
to that so I found my own little way to kind of um you know an adaptation for that is there any data to support that getting your face and your head in is good for you um I'll tell you what I do cuz I do a head dunk every time do it right yeah I hate that oh my God I don't blame you but I don't go very deep that is I don't like you know when I was doing cold showers I would let the cold water on the top of my head and we all know about brain freeze and this was worse I don't like having the top of my head freezing okay so people are different and I never ever hold my breath I always breathe out slowly I never plug my nose so I will blow bubbles while I'm underwater and I'll try and do it slow and I'll try and last as long long as I can and 12 seconds is my record because there is something about water boarding there um for me it is an abject state of panic being underwater in the cold and I love swimming you know I love body surfing and that doesn't cause the Panic for me even if the water is cold and I'm body surfing it doesn't there's something about peeing in the morasco and doing that face head dunk that is um psychologically very threatening the experience for me was when a friend of mine said well we should try a snorkel so put my snorkel on and I said all right you know this allows me to breathe which is important for safety I don't
which is important for safety I don't ever want to people to hyperventilate and then try cold if you pass out in the water you can drown and so I never hold my breath oh try the snorkel but I had a powerful flashback of being at Children's Beach with my mother like say it's 197 73 it's must have been before that I must have been four or 5 years old and she's trying to teach me how to swim and one of the things you to do is the Dead Man's float right and of course your mom holds you up while you're floating on your back trying to lean back and learn how you look son you can float just like riding a bicycle then she takes her arms away and you realize you're floating in the water luk uh that flashback sent me into some childlike state of panic that I'm willing to go up to the edge on like I want to explore it a little bit and I will never you know by myself cross into that threshold to feel that again so I'm not the right person to ask about um you know is this right clinically it's not right for me to hold my breath underwater at least not yet but you know maybe I'll get there I recommend you breathe I don't like the the uh the plugging the nose aspect but I can't tell people what's going to work or not work for them what I can tell you is you do not get all the benefits of an ice bath by sticking your head in a bowl
ice bath by sticking your head in a bowl of ice water on your kitchen counter the body doesn't work that way you can get some cold shock and that's about it it there's nothing wrong with having your face cold physiologically and it will activate your nervous system and the claims that you're going to read online from people who have big audiences about oh you don't need to do this all you need to do is put your face in there and you get everything those are coming from people who have been bugging me for years about getting a free Morosco and haven't gotten one that's funny yeah well years ago I saw this product I don't know if it's still out I think it was called the cryo helmet and it was for tbis and brain injuries and stuff where you put this kind of you know ice cooled helmet on and it was used therapeutically and somehow I just had that in my memory so I thought well it's probably a good idea when I get out to dunk the top of my head in technically I am breathing while my top of my head's in yeah yeah um but I find I don't know I feel like it um kind of quiets down any inflammation that I feel in my head like if I have brain fog or it's like midday and I need to reboot getting my head cold and holding it in for quite a while seems to do wonders for that cold is one of the best things you can do for the brain now you don't have to freeze the brain um whole body is really good because of the neuroprotective factors that are associated with cold um but there is a guy at the University of Southern
guy at the University of Southern Florida his name is Joe deturi he goes by Dr deep sea he was a Navy diver for decades and so pressure and oxygen are really important to these high performance divers he gets out of the Navy and he says well I want to get a doctorate he does that and now he's teaching he's got a PhD but he's teaching in the medical school there and one of his favorite things is his 1943 pickup truck cuz I guess 1, 943 was the deepest he ever died he was in some submersible submarine thing and he gets T-boned in Florida guess what a 1943 pickup truck doesn't have airbags you know any of the safety equipment that we would take for granted now and he winds he wakes up in the hospital he doesn't recognize the attending physician and the attending physician is like but you taught me anat or whatever it was you know and he goes holy crap I don't he's got this temporary Amnesia my brain's not functioning he studies the brain he did his dissertation on hyperbarics in the brain he goes and now my brain is messed up he's got to heal himself so he do Hyperbaric he does red light he does magnesium and he calls me up and he says Tom I want to do cold because it just makes sense to me if I submerge up to my neck not only am I going to stimulate my vagus nerve improve my vagal tone but vasil constriction is going to force all the blood up into my head and that increased profusion is going to help my brain right and he's just going on his intuition and now he swears by it to the point where he put a functional MRI on his scalp and this is a
his scalp and this is a scientific instent not like the chws M Muse which is a lot of fun but he's looking for a greater level of sensitivity and you can only do this with people who are trained in the cold cuz you need about 5 minutes 33 ° and they got to stay still but he measures himself and he sends me the data he's like my brain is lighting up this is me when I'm warm and dry this is me when I'm cold and wet and I have reduced latency which is the time it takes for different sections of the brain to talk I have increased activity he goes I'm getting data that shows my brain works much better on cold so now your your intuitions about this are being backed up by his expertise and his data I think we're really on to something and again we should run better trials with people who are you know curious about how their brains respond epic all right last question uh what's the difference between getting in cold water versus cryotherapy I used to do cryotherapy a lot just because I didn't have an ice bath yet and I don't know it's kind of nice but after I got acclimated to doing ice bass all the time I get in cryotherapy I'm just like this is boring like I this doing anything like can turn this thing down it's just like not it's not the same to me you me and all the other customers that I've talked with for cryotherapy is great you know LeBron James does cryotherapy because it makes you feel good you get a sense of accomplishment uh I like the cold and so cry therapy
uh I like the cold and so cry therapy has a lot of benefits I don't mean to knock it and the cold water is so much harder than the cold air because the cold cold water will suck that heat right out of your body so I went to a cryotherapy chamber in San Diego first time and they said you know under no circumstances should you be in there for more than four minutes and I put the mittens on and I put the headband on and everything and I said this is going to be just like going back to school I went to school in Clarkson University pot Stam New York way up north of Lake Placid - 40 ° Celsius Fahrenheit doesn't matter that's where they cross you know and I've enjoyed that I'm like great 4 minutes goes by 5 minutes goes by 8 minutes and I'm like when does it really kick in you know when am I going to get the because it's boring after you've acclimated to cold water cryotherapy feels like a breeze and all of my customers who started with cryo and now have Morosco you know they say why didn't you tell me about this six years ago you know I was like well I'm trying you know I've only got my little 15, 000 followers and I'm glad you found us they only do cryo when they're on the road and they can't get cold any other way so what are the differences um one important advantage that cryo has is you don't have to get wet and sometimes people don't want to get wet uh and part of that is if you're going to a cryo chamber you're not worried about whether
chamber you're not worried about whether the last person in the chamber showered before they got in there some people you have your Mor at home and it's only you and your guests but some people are going to go to a public spa and even though it's got ozone and the water looks good they just don't feel like they want to share a bath with somebody cryo is the next best thing so that's a big advantage to cryo and then I got a whole list of disadvantages you can't put Epsom salt in the cryo chamber and as to date nobody's done H theapy and cryo at the same time and you're probably not in there long enough to really get a good salt dose so there's a number of things and I put it in um you can find my whole table at the end of my cryocon talk I don't want to knock cryo I want people to try it and for me cold water is more effective got it okay I'm glad you mentioned the Magnesium too because that's uh that's another addition doing it now yeah and which which one you told me I was putting the wrong form and it turned the water kind of yellow do not pour put chlorides into yeah magnesium chloride right uh but do magnesium sulfate that's what I'm doing now the water stays clear oh good yeah was it an interaction with the ozone or something okay chloride and bromide by the way like they're benign when they're in their minus one form I mean table salt is chloride there's nothing wrong with it we knock chlorine for really good reasons it does not exist in nature and your body doesn't know how to handle it but chloride is great and it's in
it but chloride is great and it's in seawater however when the ozone and the chloride interact it can change the veence state of the chloride into forms that are not benign that are toxic they're not supposed to go together and so I discourage people from putting chloride salts because I want them to use the ozone but put all the sulfate salts in there that you like even in yours you can use zinc sulfate potassium sulfate a little bit of copper sulfate and you'll get some antimicrobial effects especially from the copper anti - algicide or copper is an algoid so anti-algal effects and you'll get some of the transdermal absorption of the potassium yeah I have a recipe now in an article that I haven't shared with you but it's online and um yeah right and you just you're getting like a mineral bath at the same time correct epic so you're getting your grounding you're getting your cold you're getting your salts like your mineral bath magnesium is great for muscle soreness too what is not to like with all of the stack that you're now getting in your ice bath and I suppose what's not to like is you're up to your ears and freezing cold water yeah it's a matter of personal preference correct would it be better for one to do say three to five Short Ice baths in a day or just do one long 3 to five minute I don't do well I don't consider 3 to five really all that long I'm asking cuz I jump in there yeah probably three six times a
there yeah probably three six times a day depending on how busy I am and how hot it is sometimes I'm only in there 30 seconds sometimes a minute minute 2 minutes but I I just love it so I do it more often but I don't always have time to sit in there and have the full experience I could probably I they say the same thing about yoga or meditation you know if you don't have the time you should do it for twice as long um I could probably make the time I don't have the patience for a five or a six minute I bath sometime I'm like I start thinking about things you know I get these ideas oh here's the three things that I haven't tried yet and I want to get out and I want to start working on them right away but when I'm shooting a video then uh sometimes I'll have a long ice bath you probably weren't paying any attention but carnivore aurelus that crazy account you know 40% good advice and 60% just click bait crap that drives me up the wall and she did a beautiful video or he or whoever carnivore is right uh against there was rumors for a while that it was a woman but he went on Rick rubin's podcast and he was very much a male okay yeah um the the criticisms of ice bath were bogus and so people were asking me will you do a rebuttal it took me three takes to cuz sometimes you know the words just don't come to me right and AJ is filming and we're up to like 20 minutes and she says well do you want to go over the part again about the sex thing and I'm like I'm freezing and I got to get out of here sometimes I'll do a long ice
of here sometimes I'll do a long ice bath because I'm working on something you know but mostly it's just 2 to 4 minutes and I Phoenix 115 ° I'll go in there 2 or 3 days or two three times a day sometimes in the winter it's usually just one ice bath and you just reminded me of another question and maybe it's because I heard it from carnivore aelius or someone like that um I have seen um antagonist to the idea of cold therapy that [__] on it saying that you know you're flooded with cortisol in Adrenaline and it's really bad for you and in nature historically humans would have never voluntarily gotten that call your body thinks you're going to die this whole thing what what's your quick rebuttal to that [__] that's pretty quick yeah yeah um have those people posted their Labs no have they even posted a photo of them going into the ice bath no but I've looked at the data the best work on cortisol is coming out of the Lithuanian Sports University this is a friend of mine cuz I called him up and I wanted to get to know IUS bratis and I have trouble with it pronouncing his last name he's measured cortisol he's done this with blood samples there's also salivary studies the ice bath does not increase cortisol unless you're chronically low if you're chronically High it will bring it down it modulates cortisol now cortisol is tricky because it changes throughout the day and you have to be consistent in the way that you're measuring it I got though a great story for you by Mitch wisnowski this guy is an
Mitch wisnowski this guy is an Australian punter for the 49ers and it seems like all the punters in the NFL are now these former Australian Rules Football players and Mitch is one of them he was told he had to reduce his stress because had a bubble of cortisol in his eye that was interfering with his vision his medical doctor says you got to take your stress down and Mitch is like you know I punt you know like he's not going to stop his career he he must be in these stressful situations so what is he going to do he says before I quit football I'm going to try breath work and Ice baths four months later he goes back he says doc how's my cortisol bubble doing cuz my vision seems pretty good doc says it's gone what have you done and he goes breath work ice baths doctor's like that doesn't work Mitch says well I got to go punt now it works great this is a misconception that you will burn out your adrenals and I think it's an excuse that people use cuz they don't want to get uncomfortable you know wouldn't it be great if a mimosa brunch was the healthiest thing you could do and then maybe go to the spa for like a vermiculite basal or something then come out of there and live for seven years longer but like our lives would be wonderful it doesn't work like that yeah you get uh a stress response yes lots of physiological things happen in your adrenal glands and burning them out is
adrenal glands and burning them out is not one of them now there are risks to the ice bath hypertension is probably the most important one because the Vaso constriction in your limbs is going to force blood into your core and up to your brain it's going to raise your blood pressure if you already have chronically high blood pressure you need to be careful that you don't have some kind of a hypertensive medical event go warmer starting out over the long term ice bath is great for the circulation it can be really good for high blood pressure but hypertension is an important Contra indication so I don't mean to say that ice baths are good for everybody all the time I mean to say that this idea that our ancestors would never have voluntarily gone into the cold water is [__] because we descend from the homo sapiens that survived the Ice Age and when the world was covered with glaciers there were probably it's called a population bottleneck there were probably only a few thousand like human beings total and of them maybe half of them or more than half of them were women but now we're all descended from the same 3, 000 women that survived that Ice Age where did they live they lived next to the water you might think well no they lived in Africa near the equator those were the oldest you know human fossil records are found and we say okay the equator we think of it is warm but where does whm hoff take his traines up Mount
hoff take his traines up Mount Kilimanjaro which you might have noticed is right at the equator there are four modern glaciers at the equator in Africa in East Africa where the oldest human fossils are found when those glaciers were enormous and covered by Ice our ancient ancestors lived near the water's edge where did they get the the omega-3 fatty acids that would support the human brain what where did they live when there was nothing to eat when the animals that when the herbivores were already so scarce they ate the seafood the Jack Cruz is really good on this when you do your uh studies of the brain and how the brain is supported by the fatty acids and by the seafood the uh mollusks that is the shellfish and the fish and the plants that grow in the water where are people foraged our ancestors had the choice of star or get cold they decided to get cold and to say well that's not voluntary it's just a cocooi the people who were not cold acclimated never made it through the ice age your mitochondria are descendant from the same women who foraged for their living inside that cold water who gave birth to your ancient grandmother in that cold water and so It's Perfectly Natural to be getting yourself in the cold it's what your ancient ancestors
cold it's what your ancient ancestors did and these counterarguments you don't need to concoct them the number one reason for not doing an ice bath is because you don't want to do an ice bath just say that I'm not going to coer anybody or bully anybody or shame anybody into getting into an ice path because that would just Rob them of the feeling of accomplishment that they get when they finally try it beautiful thank you for that I'm glad I remember to ask that I see more of I mean you know how the internet is right it's like for every one person that's for something 50 people pop up and create a platform by being against it um so you really you know you got to Wade through a lot of uh data to arrive at the truth all right last question my friend you ready yeah who have been three teachers or teachings in general that have influenced your life and who you are today uh number one Walter oberm taught me journalism at Peabody High School in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and he was an [__] and that really worked for me because i' had a series of female you know honors English teachers and we're supposed to read Ethan from or The Great Gatsby or whatever we're supposed to interpret it and all this stuff and I was getting you know C's and D's in English and I knew I'm going to be an engineer I'm good at math and science right and then I signed up for this journalism class and he sat me down and he said your writing is terrible and this is how you're going to fix it and he was ruthless in his criticism and he showed me what passive
criticism and he showed me what passive voice was an active voice and he showed me sort of this journalistic inverted pyramid Stu and he gave me a structure instead of all this nebulous Humanities crap which just didn't work for me although I did finally freaking Read Moby Dick you know uh I've come to appreciate better what was happening then that I couldn't appreciate at all uh Wally oberm taught me how to write and I haven't stopped so I'm grateful for that there was another high school teacher that I had at this terrible inner city school it was the 7s it was forced busing and desegregation and white flight it was violent and there were a lot of challenges that um that harm me in the time and help make me who I am that I only came to understand later and this one is Mr Sadowski my AP Chemistry teacher and he was not universally liked he was a chemical engineer who went to Clarkson by the way and went off on these incredible tangents he was a Storyteller extraordinaire and I sat in the front row of AP Chemistry I didn't write anything down I just listened to all of the stories and some of them still come back to me because I learned chemistry listening to Mr sadowski's crazy stories I had another childhood Mentor uh G stackpole this was on Nantucket Island gunny stackpole retired he was born on
gunny stackpole retired he was born on the island he grew up on the island he traveled the world and he retired to run the Old Mill so the net historical Association they own like you know 15 different exhibits the whaling museum the oldest house and one of them was the Old Mill my mother took me for a picnic me and my sisters at the Old Mill in an Tucket and I adored it so I wanted to go back now this was the' 70s remember remember when kids were like allowed to free range and I had a bicycle so I'd ride my bike up to the Old Mill every freaking day there was an alcoholic there who smoked a pipe and I remember the smell of his pipe dick Swain and he told the best stories so dick would put me to work hey you should package up the cornmeal take care of the sales go you know do the Rope because I guess that's the way alcoholic pipe smoking storytellers work and I loved learning how to do things and learning chores but I came back the next year and dick was gone this gunny stackpole guy is here gunny said what are you doing here I said I work here and I'm nine you know he said no you don't and we don't allow kids to hang out I came up every day and I told gunny I work here and he said all right well you know finally after a week of this let's see what you can do I can package the cornmeal I can take the 50 Cent submission you know I can put the sales up and gunny and I got along great so you got to imagine this guy is 70 and here's a little kid nine and gunny told a better story than dick Swain did gunny
a better story than dick Swain did gunny was a salesperson you would walk you pay 50 cents to come into the Old Mill and you would walk out with a cookbook 5 pounds of cornmeal spermac cetti candles and like six postcards or something cuz gunny could sell that way and I was when I was nine terrible at it but I love the way that he told the stories I got to be 14 and the historical Association said we want to hire you but you're too young so we're going to put down I should probably not say any of this but we're going to put down those are always the best comments right uh my first job was under my older sister's Social Security number so that they could find a way to pay me for doing that job by the time I was 18 they said okay you're the Miller gny developed dementia turns out cornbread is not good for your brain like I didn't know but at the time you know I like grinding corn and making Indian pudding and all these recipes and he went to the old folks home and then he died and they needed somebody to run the mill and when I was 18 that was me but then I went into engineering school and by the way a windmill that works and grinds corn is a wonderful thing for a kid who's going to be an engineer and I needed like a real job and I became a surveyor you know and um I had to give up being a dosent and a Miller and those three people I go back to them at some difficult times or when I'm working on a
difficult times or when I'm working on a problem like what I learned from them still comes back to me today whether it's storytelling or chemistry or just trying to figure out how to write something down so it's a wonderful question and I hate that I have to narrow it down to three because there's some other older mentors that I've had uh thank you Dick Parsons um whom I've learned other really important things from now I get to be a teacher and now I get to you know tell myself a story about how in another 30 years there's going to be somebody on some podcast who's going to get that question and they're going to say you know Professor Seager really made a difference to me in my life
Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.
The modern wellness world often turns mechanisms into promises. A calmer approach asks better questions. What is the body being asked to adapt to? What dose can it recover from? What practice still feels intelligent tomorrow?
"Cold exposure is most useful when it becomes a measured practice rather than a spectacle."
cold exposure creates a clear sympathetic response. Breathing changes, attention narrows, and the body prepares to protect itself. The practice becomes useful when you meet that signal with steadiness. Over time, the cold becomes a place to rehearse regulation.
The benefit does not come from chasing the lowest temperature. It comes from a repeatable dose the body can absorb. A brief, intentional exposure followed by warmth, food, movement, or rest can support resilience without adding unnecessary strain.
Use the idea as a ritual, not a performance. Start with the least dose that changes your state. Notice breath, sleep, appetite, training quality, and mood. Those signals tell you whether the protocol is building capacity or simply adding load.
Cold exposure is most useful when it becomes a measured practice rather than a spectacle.
The metabolic promise sits in adaptation: better stress tolerance, clearer focus, and a more responsive nervous system.
Temperature, duration, and recovery matter more than bravado.
Choose one practice you can repeat consistently for the next two weeks.
Track the felt outcome: sleep, focus, calm, recovery, or energy.
Increase intensity only when the current dose leaves you steadier.
