Pain has many solutions. Alcohol is the easiest, least effective, and most socially acceptable. It numbs. It disconnects. It creates the illusion of relief while compounding the problem. But what if there was something that addressed both physical pain and the underlying patterns that drive us toward self-medication?
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k k s k get sweaty with lety a wellness program about pain management hello and welcome to this week episode of get sweaty with Ley it is 14 ° out feels like 4 sun is shining and we had our first significant snowfall in about 2 years fantastic day for a SAA and a cold plunge and today's guest we have Jen veral and I actually met Jen after reading an article she wrote in the newspaper she is an NA Advocate a tedex speaker and co-founder of zero proof Collective and SAA and sobriety and I'm excited to talk to her today about the relationship between
today about the relationship between alcohol and pain let's go sweat all right now that we're inside this lovely exceler SAA I'm happy to be sitting on the bench with my guest Jen veral it's good to have you awesome to be here thanks for the invite yeah no doubt now I know about my own relationship with with alcohol in pain and we can get into that as we go but let me ask you Jen what brings you into pain oh such a good question when we first talked about this I was thinking about pain in terms of a physical pain
about pain in terms of a physical pain and as I've been thinking about it more it is like a suffering like my pain was more like suffering of being in Social spaces that didn't accept the fact that I was trying not to drink and I really align those pain points as more like mental challenges and we can talk about how sauna was a solution to that but for our conversation today for sure want to talk about all the ways that pain shows up I love that because yeah I mean pain is such a funny thing you know your first instinct of when you hear pain you're thinking injury right but the pain that can come from the brain oh just a mental standpoint can be just as debilitating as physical pain and for me you know when I ever whenever I set goals the first thing to go is alcohol because I need to be concentrating I need to sleep well everything needs to be functioning and if it's a constant in
be functioning and if it's a constant in your life you're never able to take a break from it and the pipes aren't functioning clean right absolutely got dirty pipes yep I would say in active addiction it was you know waiting till whatever time during the day when I could actually have alcohol cuz I was a I would say high functioning alcoholic and my pain was kind of suffering through the day knowing that I wasn't living in my purpose alcohol kept me out of my purpose and I always say to anyone any of my can do that you don't have to Define yourself as an alcoholic you can just say alcohol doesn't serve me so I was in this Insanity cycle of pain and what do we do when we have pain we're uncomfortable and we immediately look to solve it and for me it was alcohol it was like that I knew would do the trick obviously not long term but right in terms of an immediate fix did it for me I was like okay now I can relax I can reduce my anxiety about being in the workplace or like sort of
being in the workplace or like sort of covering up my alcohol use yeah wow I know what that struggle is like um I never had I I never really saw myself as someone with a drinking problem I had a couple incidents where I got a DUI you know that was a bummer there's that that's adolescent uh not knowing how to operate properly in life but you know beyond that I was fortunate that I was able to turn off the alcohol for me that the problem you know was actually binge eating in a sense that's where I I but so I can relate from a that binge eating standpoint when you're waiting through the day and you're just like I'm doing well but there's just something in the back of your mind that's like I know you're doing well but just wait you're going to go there yeah no in your book I totally resonated with that because it was like okay getting through the day just kind of getting through life is how I operated and then it was like work out hard I always say you know toxins in toxins out out and I would get
toxins in toxins out out and I would get a reset but in the back of my mind in the morning I might say you know I'm so hung over I'm not drinking again I'm not going to do it tonight by 5 6 o' I could just feel that anxiety coming up that that suffering of like how am I going to escape this how am I going to spend just time with myself and my own body and not be so uncomfortable right yeah it's uh those can def those are challenging times um and I know when I was trying to break through of my depression and when I was going and hanging out with my friends again you know that was tough everybody's everybody's drinking and fortunately I had cannabis as uh a good thing in my life so you know I would have friends that I could hang out with and we would enjoy and enjoy smoking weed together but you know they were far and few yeah and there was a stigma to that at the time oh for sure still de de with now even with the
still de de with now even with the legalization of it but yeah I mean gosh you know like do I just have one beard do I have one drink and I I would start to get to this mental point where when I would even have one it was almost like a day ruined yeah you know yeah where if I'm trying to achieve goals physically or or professionally or just socially totally I want to have I like sober days you know that that's that's where I ended up finding that that balance is it's seeking out sober days yeah no and I think it's really interesting cuz I view it when you say like an off switch right like I know that I never had that I consider myself in recovery I use different terms now to describe my relationship with alcohol which is I need to be sober like sober necessary is what I say but I never had an off switch so there's there's defining that relationship with alcohol but I almost in 10 years of sobriety now and like I actually feel kind of blessed
and like I actually feel kind of blessed that I just it's not an option for me that's it takes it off the table completely and I look at others who want to be alcohol-free but they can take or leave it and so they are in this Middle Ground of like how much is too much and like where do I assess my relationship and um yeah I guess it's one of the beautiful things of long-term sobriety is you just don't even have to think about that yeah that that's pretty great yeah when I started you know this time last last year I was really into the process of writing my book and I was looking at my month and at the beginning of all this I was looking at him like man I don't even know if there's a day in there where I don't want to have a beer or do something like that so I had to get over that mental thought where I need to have a beer and you know fortunately like being a brewery owner that can be kind of interesting right oh yeah we got talk about that more yeah but we're able to sell THC and for me you know I see THC sell
you know I see THC sell as a non-alcoholic option but I understand how it's not non-alcoholic for everybody right and it has different meaning but for me being able to be an advocate for not consuming alcohol and also uh how cannabis can benefit from you that has really helped me move on from the daily desire to have just one beer yeah and I I that's huge I can just go back behind the bar and pour whatever I want whenever I want right that was tricky for a few years but I've been able to find that balance and it's so key and like trust yourself like I reading your book all about the crispy creams right I worked at a bakery for three Summers and like just you know the Temptations are always there and it's part of your work environment so I love that you bring that up because I when I came to back Channel first and when we met I was like this really does feel like a community and a social space which to me is all about the the na
which to me is all about the the na movement is making it more of a social movement to say we aren't necessarily gathering in order to just drink we you have the space but you've provided options and that's all I have ever personally wanted and been advocating for so tot thank you that absolutely and thank you for seeing like what we're trying to do you know we are called back Channel Brewing but I view us as an entity as a gathering space an event space where all walks of life can come together you know we had a SAA and sobriety event a couple months ago and it was fun talking to people about hey you know let's break down this invisible wall of you have to drink if you're coming to a brewery cuz you don't right we have more na options than than beer than regular beer options I couldn't believe the selection you brought out today I was like that's amazing and also just to have it integrated so I think one of the issues with recovery and one of the things I
with recovery and one of the things I saw missing was People in AA for example would go to fellowship and do things just with their non-drinking friends and I always thought well that's great that helped me for the first three years that's all I did because I didn't trust myself in different social spaces but what happened was um you know three some years into it I'm like there's got to be a way to integrate I have friends that don't drink or drink responsibly that have a couple na Beverages and maybe shift to alcohol or vice versa but the behavior and the way they show up is still authentic like you can still be in community with people that drink if you don't definitely definitely yeah and I like how you said responsibly uh in your article the word that really struck me was mindful drinking and mindful consumption and that's how I view myself as a mindful Drinker because I I like to stay in shape uh my whole being is fighting pain and I've recognized that too much alcohol will lead to pain so
too much alcohol will lead to pain so there has to be a balance you know I want to I like to celebrate with friends but I'm not going to get blasted anymore I can have a few beers and you know that's good uh it's I liken it to to my desire to have sweets to Donuts as well totally Crispy Cream is coming back to the Twin Cities and I'm going to have one of those damn Donuts am I going to have a dozen a celebrated moment where you will have come to that with just a different perspective and your journey looks different yeah exactly exactly but like when it comes to stay in shape I look at a week and I'm like I'm going to work out there I'm not going to have a beer or alcohol later on that is not good for protein synthesis alcohol is going to kill that process and I love that you know all the science behind everything cuz that's actually a new driver that people have come to it like even in the sauna where we're at and cold plunge there's huge you know health benefits and if you are someone who works out and takes care of your body ultimately you
takes care of your body ultimately you have to say alcohol doesn't align correct I mean I was doing these crazy like step classes and killing myself you know half hour hour workouts daily when I was in active addiction just to be able to say I've got my you know act together I'm totally fine but that hardcore mentality of working out and then when you look at like how you want to perform it's like how did alcohol fit and that of course I was in my 20s and 30s when I was doing that but that would never fly now it would take me out for days yeah it's crazy I used to you know we chatted we had a similar story where you'd go out you'd drink and when you're young and you'd stay up super late probably wouldn't have any food when you get home at night you get up in the morning you feel shame and you go and pound away for an hour or two sweating not necessarily replenishing and then when you do replenish It's never enough so there's just constant state of depletion when you're you're fighting the the alcohol workout routine yeah oh my gosh I never and I didn't know about water honestly now people like actually
water honestly now people like actually know to drink water this was you know two decades ago where I would get up and maybe have some caffeine and then go to a spin class yeah and just like what how did I how did that even happen I don't know wild yeah well water is life and we're going to get in some very cold water soon I can't wait for that speaking of which I'm going to step down here and Stoke our fire a little bit yeah we could use some heat oh it's nice to say nice to see the the Mercury Rising in here with that uh with those additional logs just put on we're get we're getting sweaty yes I'm excited to get cold thinking cold plunge remedies there how are you remedying others that are getting into sober necessary or understanding how to engage socially when they feel maybe
engage socially when they feel maybe just trapped in that that lifestyle yeah well I can talk a little bit about how I came to sauna and cold plunge which was 3 years into sobriety and I really didn't have any adult social experiences that I didn't have to work at to like create and be like you know reach out to friends and like go out so what I loved about when I discovered SAA and cold plunge like as I know it now um was that the Hing hotel and it was 3our guided experiences but the cool thing is you could just go on your own I didn't have to like you know reach out to my friend group I could just show up and something about being in conversation like you can join in if you want but you can also just sit back and listen and it provided this like intimate Community belonging experience that I think a lot of people there's a lot of isolation right and especially in winter in Minnesota we go deep and that that to me was like very
deep and that that to me was like very isolating to not be able to drink and go out so when I found this I was like I bet other sober people are people just you know looking for a different experience would love this totally so I just the correlation there to me was just like a light bulb and that's also why you know co-founding son and sobriety was a direct invitation to say come here and don't be pressured to drink right right and and you you offer all of these different na options for people too so it's not just a gathering where you're with like-minded individuals you get a nice little spread of delicious offerings that really ease the burden of of not being able to drink right sometimes when people are smoking they just want that sensation of putting something into their mouth same when it comes to just casual conversation where beverages are involved I mean I I used to you know really look at what everybody was drinking back in the day and now I just
drinking back in the day and now I just hope somebody's got something in their hands sparkly beverage in hand and that's what I fully like embraced early in sobriety is like if you have something elevated something special in your hand people aren't really asking the question right and I used to get very angry when I didn't have anything and people constantly would try to buy me drinks I would be like well you're no fun cuz you're not drinking i' be like I challenge that because yeah we know we're fun alcoh you're damn right but and you bring up a point yeah it's just you know it's just another example of that that P that little bit of mental pain that can be inflicted when someone asks you what you want to drink or what can I get you and and there's maybe just like a hesitation afterwards if you don't say alcohol right it's just they don't know what to do with you they don't know what to do yeah that's what I always say like I felt very Uninvited to all social experiences when I stopped drinking and this was 12 years ago and now with na
this was 12 years ago and now with na products available I would say and I would put you in the category of a a social curator of experiences which can be bar restaurant could be corporate but just to say that if you are doing that then there's no reason you can't have any options and you fully embraced that so I'd love to see that appreciate it appreciated it and you know I just had a I had a conversation with somebody 3 days ago uh and I do what I do naturally I can I get you a beer right right cuz I know they enjoy beer yeah but this time they they were like you know I I'm not drinking anymore wow and you know I could sense the like shame behind it but I I met that with encouragement you know and it's like I was like that's awesome you know let's get together and like I want to talk to you about that yeah I wish someone would have said that to me in early sobriety but it was always like you get like the resistance
always like you get like the resistance or the unknown of what does that mean and people back away from it but you being able just to step in and like see that because it is hard to say when you start even the first year where I had to say that it was like oh my gosh I hate this I'll just avoid any social experience because I just can't deal yeah and I mean that's exactly I I when I asked how how's it going the the comment was I I just I really miss the the social the conversation when we're hanging out and I said that can still be there you know it's it's just going to be different and you you just need to focus your mind on other things and and that's where Wellness comes into play cuz when you're starting to feel better it's easier to avoid something that will ultimately shed what it's trying to do and it's hurting you you know and it's hurting you yeah that's what I never wanted to look at I always like you know the idea that alcohol is just
you know the idea that alcohol is just you know that's tied to my identity it's what I do part of my life how how could I exist without it you know and you're at the bar trying to answer that question differently and it just leads back into the cycle of you know belonging and that's what we do in Social spaces typically so totally totally good to see that changing yeah and and it's my goal to I want to make everybody feel comfortable and you know the more events that we we do out here are the more opportunities where we can make people feel at home getting you out here maybe they're somewhere in the middle of us right maybe they're more towards you maybe they're more towards me but what they've recognized is that the traditional behaviors can't persist yeah and that's where this na push right now is so well and you're modeling that so I always say where are the social spaces that are going to model what it looks like a lot of people are afraid to step
like a lot of people are afraid to step into that their bar and restaurants are built around the idea that they are a Haven where you can go in Day drink like I think of all the sporting things you do here um it's kind of like Unwritten if you walk in the door to some of those places that you're going to have several you know drinks and you're going to be sitting at the bar Maybe by yourself you know so this is setting the tone for people kind of getting into that like what does that actually look like and maybe it's the first time they've ever said I'm not drinking today maybe they're doing dry January and we're like we have some THC or you know whatever that is it's pretty cool to see that happen yeah and you know you bring up dry January and I used to just despise dry January but yeah yeah um but now like we're we are fully embracing it we we're launching a bunch of new na beverages as I mentioned before we have more na available than we do actual beer amazing oh my gosh the times have
amazing oh my gosh the times have changed from like two years ago for sure I went from despise to all right let's make this happen Embrace yeah Embrace Embrace thank you yeah thank you and that's come along with my own personal Journey though too I don't drink as much as I used to yeah that's the whole story about and you're creating this for yourself like you don't want to work your business just to serve you know and have that be the only means but you are pairing your journey with it which is so cool to see yeah thank you so much yeah and and this is just the tip of the iceberg for fun things that you and I get to do together you were not a part of Spring Park Awakening last year but you will be this year and I think there's going to be you know a cool speaking engagement component that we can have uh just spreading Wellness in in this space and and bringing worlds together yeah and I think it causes people to pause when they're like wait a minute a brewery is hosting something that you know has an A and leads with that and I've been looking like the article on the rib that you saw and
article on the rib that you saw and mentioned um 25, 000 Impressions on my LinkedIn page when I shared it so I I knew I struck a cord because it's like the mindful drinking is growing but those individuals aren't necessarily feeling comfortable asking for na in different spaces so you've made that like you're living proof it's like look at your sales end of dry January where are you and if you're seeing an uptick in that there's a lot of Brewers who are watching very carefully what you're doing but like to prove that concept out that there's actually revenue and well in just the idea of social good and Community yeah like if you can Embrace that it really makes sense I mean families come to breweries like on a Saturday right yep mhm yeah yeah that's right yeah we PR we we pride ourselves on being familyfriendly uh Bru used to get stigma oh my God there's kids there right no there should like we're Gathering space not for one to just come and get drunk feel that Vibe I felt that when I come came here the first time I
when I come came here the first time I was like there's something different so awesome yeah I'm glad that you can feel that I'm glad that you can help break down the these bar these invisible barriers that exist uh it's it's going to just benefit all I know I can't wait yeah you know what else I can't wait for are we going oh yeah well we're hot enough in here I think that yeah okay all right are we ready let's do this J all right our bodies have reached the point of a cold return let's go let's hop in and go yeah
all right perfect oh yeah it's nice not as bad as you thought right not as bad wow the gloves are xact here got to have the gloves yeah
trying to get ahead of it yeah no you're doing great you push your body and you know that I didn't know that like you could use coal for Recovery yeah so good oh yeah a a
all right shall we yeah all right amazing love it that was great
oh man oh my gosh that was nice but this is pretty glorious so is that your first time in a hole like that no no a Lake Harriet okay Lake haret okay yeah and that we had like shoes on and I don't think I had gloves for that so I think that made a huge difference it's a key yeah the gloves are a key component the hat is as well yep the Hat Works M SAA hats are extra bonus points uhhuh but uh no I mean that was yeah everything that I was hoping for it was great and the little walk down like the little transition before getting in was so good yeah and so is our
so good yeah and so is our conversation yeah Jen I can't thank you enough for being a guest on get sweaty with Ley I love it I love the name thank you um but yeah we we're going to have so many great get togethers and impactful gatherings in the future uh I look forward to that and in the meantime and cheers and oh and cheers yes how about we just pound this year Well cheers uh our plethora of Na options after this and with that thank you for joining us on this episode until next time
Transcript auto-generated by YouTube. Verbatim — duplicates intentionally preserved.
Jen Veralle co-founded sauna and Sobriety and Zero Proof Collective. Her work sits at the intersection of two movements: the resurgence of heat therapy and the normalization of alcohol-free living. Both require challenging cultural defaults. Both offer something deeper than temporary relief.
Chronic pain and alcohol use share a feedback loop. Pain creates stress. Stress triggers drinking. Alcohol disrupts sleep, increases inflammation, and lowers pain tolerance. The temporary relief becomes the long-term cause.
Heat therapy interrupts this cycle. Sauna use reduces inflammation, improves circulation, and triggers endorphin release—the body's natural pain management system. Unlike alcohol, the benefits compound. Sleep improves. Stress resilience increases. Pain decreases.
"The sauna became a ritual that replaced the drink. Same time, same intentionality, but one depletes you and one rebuilds you."
Sobriety struggles aren't just physiological—they're social. Drinking is woven into connection, celebration, decompression. Removing alcohol without replacing the ritual leaves a void.
Sauna creates community without substances. You sit together. You sweat together. You plunge into cold water together. The vulnerability builds connection. The shared discomfort creates bonds. This isn't about replacing one addiction with another—it's about building practices that serve rather than deplete.
Cold exposure after sauna isn't just physical contrast—it's nervous system training. The initial shock activates the same stress response that triggers cravings. But instead of numbing, you breathe through it. You stay present. You prove to yourself that discomfort doesn't require escape.
This is DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy) in practice. Cold water becomes a tool for emotional regulation. The same skill that helps you tolerate 60 seconds of cold helps you tolerate a craving without acting on it.
"Cold plunge taught me that I could sit with discomfort without needing to fix it immediately. That changed everything about my relationship with cravings."
The nonalcoholic beverage industry is growing because people want options beyond water and soda. But more than drinks, they want spaces. Places to gather that don't center around alcohol. Sauna studios are becoming those spaces.
You don't need alcohol to relax when you've just spent 20 minutes sweating. You don't need a drink to feel connected when you've shared a plunge pool. The ritual itself becomes the experience—not a precursor to it.
Sauna as pain management. 15-20 minutes at 160-180°F. Focus on breath. Let the heat work. Pain reduction is cumulative, not immediate.
Cold plunge for regulation. 60-90 seconds in cold water post-sauna. Breathe through the shock. Notice the calm that follows. This is emotional regulation training.
Community over consumption. Find or create alcohol-free social rituals. Sauna sessions. Group plunges. Connection without depletion.
Related Articles The Cold Plunge and Sauna: Unlocking the Secrets to Longevity Your Brain on Sauna Explained | Sierra Blake, Mental Health Expert The Power of Contrast Therapy: Embracing Discomfort for Lasting Health Understanding Saunas: Insights from How Sauna Detoxified My Body |... Understanding Saunas: Insights from Is Sauna ACTUALLY Good For You...
